Subject: [ppsp] ppsp charter discussion

From: "zhangyunfei" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:23:49 +0800

Dear all,
   The following is the modified version of PPSP charter(An early version was published in the IETF PPSP wiki page).Please review it and any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

           BR
            Yunfei
--------------------------------------------------------
Description of PPSP Working Group:
The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol – a signaling protocol between “PPSP trackers” and “PPSP peers”, and the PPSP peer protocol – a signaling protocol among “PPSP peers”. A PPSP tracker maintains lists of participating PPSP peers, each for a specific channel or streaming file, and answers the queries from PPSP peers for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP peers inform their status information to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask other PPSP peers for wanted data. 
 
This WG's primary tasks are to produce:
1. A “problem statement” document describing the problems, incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies and concepts.
 
2. A “requirements” document listing the requirements on the designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key issues in best practice.

4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise chunk availability. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of chunks among PPSP peers.
 
5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.
 
6. A “usage document” explaining how the protocols defined above, along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce complete P2P streaming systems.
 
7. Optionally a ”mobile usage document” (PPSP mobile BCP document) to evaluate PPSP with and without Mobile IP support when there are a lot of mobile peers in the system.

The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, ALTO and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO, MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such extensions and present to the respective working groups.

The design of PPSP has to consider security/privacy issues. The protocol document will contain a complete description of the security/privacy issues that PPSP should address.
 
The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current charter.
 
3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause, fast-forward, and rewind).
 
4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., chunk selection, local storage strategies).
 
5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate. Examples include cache management.
Goals and Milestones:
Apr 2010Working Group Last Call for problem statement
Jun 2010Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document
Aug 2010Working Group Last Call for architecture survey
Aug 2010Working Group Last Call for requirements
Oct
2010Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational document
Oct 2010Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document
Apr 2011Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol
Apr
2011Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol
Aug 2011Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard
Aug 2011Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard
Nov 2011Working Group Last Call of usage document
Nov 2011Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document
Jan 2012Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document
Jan 2012Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational document
Apr 2012Dissolve or re-charter 

zhangyunfei
2009-09-10

---

From: "Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:02:45 +0200

Hi Yunfei,
after reading your charter proposal, a text proposal and 2 questions for
clarifications.
 
Best Regards
Christian Schmidt

Proposed new text for more transparency in main description:

Old text:

The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is
chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP
protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints,
caches, content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices)
to participate in P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile
Internet.

PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol - a signaling protocol
between "PPSP trackers" and "PPSP peers", and the PPSP peer protocol - a
signaling protocol among "PPSP peers". A PPSP tracker maintains lists of
participating PPSP peers, each for a specific channel or streaming file,
and answers the queries from PPSP peers for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP
peers inform their status information to PPSP trackers, exchange their
chunk availability with other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask
other PPSP peers for wanted data. 

New text:

The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is
chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP
protocols) for P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.
Participating entities could be intelligent endpoints, caches, content
distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices.

For a specific channel or streaming file, a PPSP tracker maintains lists
of particiating PPSP peers. The PPSP tracker answers queries from PPSP
peers for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP peers provide their status
information to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with
other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask other PPSP peers for
wanted data. PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol - a
signaling protocol between "PPSP trackers" and "PPSP peers", and the
PPSP peer protocol - a signaling protocol among "PPSP peers". 
 
Architectural survey
3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P
streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and
key issues in best practice.
It is good to have a description of the current P2P streaming
architecture. What is missing is the relation to the PPSP work. Will it
contain a proposal for the PPSP architecture?
 
Usage document
6. A "usage document" explaining how the protocols defined above, along
with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can
inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce
complete P2P streaming systems.
This sounds more like a "interop document". Was this the intention?

 

________________________________

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
ext zhangyunfei
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:24 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [ppsp] ppsp charter discussion

Dear all,

   The following is the modified version of PPSP charter(An early
version was published in the IETF PPSP wiki page).Please review it and
any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

           BR

            Yunfei

The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is
chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP
protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints,
caches, content distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices)
to participate in P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile
Internet.

PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol - a signaling protocol
between "PPSP trackers" and "PPSP peers", and the PPSP peer protocol - a
signaling protocol among "PPSP peers". A PPSP tracker maintains lists of
participating PPSP peers, each for a specific channel or streaming file,
and answers the queries from PPSP peers for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP
peers inform their status information to PPSP trackers, exchange their
chunk availability with other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask
other PPSP peers for wanted data. 

This WG's primary tasks are to produce:
1. A "problem statement" document describing the problems, incentives,
and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common
terminologies and concepts.

2. A "requirements" document listing the requirements on the designed
PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements
of PPSP protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols
should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P
streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and
key issues in best practice.

4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol
will define how PPSP peers advertise chunk availability. The protocol
will also define the requests and responses of chunks among PPSP peers.

5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol
will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP
trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.

6. A "usage document" explaining how the protocols defined above, along
with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can
inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce
complete P2P streaming systems.

7. Optionally a "mobile usage document" (PPSP mobile BCP document) to
evaluate PPSP with and without Mobile IP support when there are a lot of
mobile peers in the system.

The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close
participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, ALTO
and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP,
ALTO, and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to
P2PSIP, ALTO, MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to define such
extensions and present to the respective working groups.

The design of PPSP has to consider security/privacy issues. The protocol
document will contain a complete description of the security/privacy
issues that PPSP should address.

The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g.
using TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be
used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current
charter.

3. Play-out mechanisms including streaming control (e.g., pause,
fast-forward, and rewind).

4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g.,
chunk selection, local storage strategies).

5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will
instead forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as
appropriate. Examples include cache management.

Goals and Milestones:

Apr 2010

Working Group Last Call for problem statement

Jun 2010

Submit problem statement to IESG as Informational document

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for architecture survey

Aug 2010

Working Group Last Call for requirements

Oct

2010

Submit architecture survey to IESG as Informational document

Oct 2010

Submit requirements to IESG as Informational document

Apr 2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP peer protocol

Apr

2011

Working Group Last Call for PPSP tracker protocol

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP peer protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard

Aug 2011

Submit PPSP tracker protocol to IESG as Proposed Standard

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of usage document

Nov 2011

Working Group Last Call of mobility BCP document

Jan 2012

Submit usage document to IESG as Informational document

Jan 2012

Submit mobility BCP document to IESG as Informational document

Apr 2012

Dissolve or re-charter 

________________________________

zhangyunfei
2009-09-10

---

From: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:59:16 +0300

Hi,

in order to make sure that the IESG and IAB have the latest BOF  
proposal when they make a decision, it'd be good if you either updated  
the wiki too (since that's currently listed as where the request is on http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart 
) or alternatively, replace the wiki with a pointer to the latest  
relevant email.

Lars

On 2009-9-10, at 9:23, zhangyunfei wrote:

> version was published in the IETF PPSP wiki page).Please review it  
> and any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.
>
>           BR
>            Yunfei
> protocols) for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent  
> endpoints, caches, content distribution network nodes, and/or other  
> edge devices) to participate in P2P streaming systems in both fixed  
> and mobile Internet.
>
> PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol – a signaling  
> protocol between “PPSP trackers” and “PPSP peers”, and the PPSP peer  
> protocol – a signaling protocol among “PPSP peers”. A PPSP tracker  
> maintains lists of participating PPSP peers, each for a specific  
> channel or streaming file, and answers the queries from PPSP peers  
> for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP peers inform their status information  
> to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other PPSP  
> peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask other PPSP peers for wanted data.
>
> 1. A “problem statement” document describing the problems,  
> incentives, and scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as  
> common terminologies and concepts.
>
> 2. A “requirements” document listing the requirements on the  
> designed PPSP protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance  
> requirements of PPSP protocols or basic types of information that  
> PPSP protocols should communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).
>
> streaming architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming,  
> and key issues in best practice.
>
> 4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This  
> protocol will define how PPSP peers advertise chunk availability.  
> The protocol will also define the requests and responses of chunks  
> among PPSP peers.
>
> 5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This  
> protocol will define how PPSP peers inform and request information  
> from PPSP trackers and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.
>
> 6. A “usage document” explaining how the protocols defined above,  
> along with existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP,  
> can inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to  
> produce complete P2P streaming systems.
>
> 7. Optionally a ”mobile usage document” (PPSP mobile BCP document)  
> to evaluate PPSP with and without Mobile IP support when there are a  
> lot of mobile peers in the system.
>
> The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires  
> close participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly  
> P2PSIP, ALTO and MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify  
> baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, and MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that  
> extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO, MMUSIC are needed, PPSP will seek to  
> define such extensions and present to the respective working groups.
>
> The design of PPSP has to consider security/privacy issues. The  
> protocol document will contain a complete description of the  
> security/privacy issues that PPSP should address.
>
> used in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of  
> current charter.
>
> <ATT00001..txt>

---

From: Yong Lucy <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:42:47 -0500

Hi YunFei and Christian,

One clarification: "participating entities" listed in the text are the peer
in P2P streaming systems, is that right? Thus, "PPSP" trackers are another
participator in the systems.  Suggest stating that clearly in the first
paragraph.

Cheers,

Lucy

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:03 AM
To: ext zhangyunfei; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ppsp] ppsp charter discussion

Hi Yunfei,

Best Regards

Christian Schmidt

Old text:

The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is
chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols)
for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content
distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in P2P
streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol - a signaling protocol
between "PPSP trackers" and "PPSP peers", and the PPSP peer protocol - a
signaling protocol among "PPSP peers". A PPSP tracker maintains lists of
participating PPSP peers, each for a specific channel or streaming file, and
answers the queries from PPSP peers for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP peers
inform their status information to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk
availability with other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask other PPSP
peers for wanted data. 

New text:

The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is
chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols)
for P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet. Participating
entities could be intelligent endpoints, caches, content distribution
network nodes, and/or other edge devices.

For a specific channel or streaming file, a PPSP tracker maintains lists of
particiating PPSP peers. The PPSP tracker answers queries from PPSP peers
for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP peers provide their status information to
PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other PPSP peers
and/or PPSP trackers, and ask other PPSP peers for wanted data. PPSP
protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol - a signaling protocol between
"PPSP trackers" and "PPSP peers", and the PPSP peer protocol - a signaling
protocol among "PPSP peers". 

Architectural survey

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P streaming
architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key issues in
best practice.

It is good to have a description of the current P2P streaming architecture.
What is missing is the relation to the PPSP work. Will it contain a proposal
for the PPSP architecture?

Usage document

6. A "usage document" explaining how the protocols defined above, along with
existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate;
and how they may be integrated together to produce complete P2P streaming
systems.

 

 

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of ext
zhangyunfei
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:24 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [ppsp] ppsp charter discussion

Dear all,

   The following is the modified version of PPSP charter(An early version
was published in the IETF PPSP wiki page).Please review it and any comments
and suggestions are highly appreciated.

           BR

            Yunfei

The Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Streaming Protocol working group (PPSP WG) is
chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols)
for multiple types of entities (e.g. intelligent endpoints, caches, content
distribution network nodes, and/or other edge devices) to participate in P2P
streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet.

PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol - a signaling protocol
between "PPSP trackers" and "PPSP peers", and the PPSP peer protocol - a
signaling protocol among "PPSP peers". A PPSP tracker maintains lists of
participating PPSP peers, each for a specific channel or streaming file, and
answers the queries from PPSP peers for candidate PPSP peers. PPSP peers
inform their status information to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk
availability with other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers, and ask other PPSP
peers for wanted data. 

This WG's primary tasks are to produce:
1. A "problem statement" document describing the problems, incentives, and
scope of developing the PPSP protocols, as well as common terminologies and
concepts.

2. A "requirements" document listing the requirements on the designed PPSP
protocols (e.g., general functionality and performance requirements of PPSP
protocols or basic types of information that PPSP protocols should
communicate to facilitate P2P streaming).

3. An "architectural survey" document explaining the current P2P streaming
architectures, in particular tracker-based P2P streaming, and key issues in
best practice.

4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol will
define how PPSP peers advertise chunk availability. The protocol will also
define the requests and responses of chunks among PPSP peers.

5. A proposed standard defining the PPSP tracker protocol. This protocol
will define how PPSP peers inform and request information from PPSP trackers
and how PPSP trackers reply to the requests.

6. A "usage document" explaining how the protocols defined above, along with
existing IETF protocols, such as RELAOD, ALTO and RTSP, can inter-operate;
and how they may be integrated together to produce complete P2P streaming
systems.

The work planned for the PPSP WG is distinct from, but requires close
participation with, work in other IETF WGs, particularly P2PSIP, ALTO and
MMUSIC. The PPSP WG assumes that it cannot modify baseline P2PSIP, ALTO, and
MMUSIC behaviors. If PPSP determines that extensions to P2PSIP, ALTO, MMUSIC
are needed, PPSP will seek to define such extensions and present to the
respective working groups.

The design of PPSP has to consider security/privacy issues. The protocol
document will contain a complete description of the security/privacy issues
that PPSP should address.

The following topics are excluded from this WG's scope:
1. Transport mechanisms for data transmission among PPSP peers, e.g. using
TCP or UDP, unicast or multicast, etc.

2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be used in
P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current charter.

4. Algorithms that may be different in different deployments (e.g., chunk
selection, local storage strategies).

5. Research type questions related to P2P streaming. This WG will instead
forward such questions to the IRTF P2PRG or other RG as appropriate.
Examples include cache management.

Goals and Milestones:

Apr 2010

Jun 2010

Aug 2010

Aug 2010

Oct

2010

Oct 2010

Apr 2011

Apr

2011

Aug 2011

Aug 2011

Nov 2011

Nov 2011

Jan 2012

Jan 2012

Apr 2012

Dissolve or re-charter 

  _____  

zhangyunfei

2009-09-10

---

From: yunfei zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:28:49 +0800

Thanks Lars for the reminding.The charter has been updated in the
wiki.Please see
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/PPSP?version=14 for the
reference.

                   Yunfei

2009/9/10, Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>:
>
> Hi,
>
> in order to make sure that the IESG and IAB have the latest BOF proposal
> when they make a decision, it'd be good if you either updated the wiki too
> (since that's currently listed as where the request is on
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart) or alternatively,
> replace the wiki with a pointer to the latest relevant email.
>
> Lars
>
>> PPSP protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol – a signaling protocol
>> between “PPSP trackers” and “PPSP peers”, and the PPSP peer protocol – a
>> signaling protocol among “PPSP peers”. A PPSP tracker maintains lists of
>> 1. A “problem statement” document describing the problems, incentives, and
>> 2. A “requirements” document listing the requirements on the designed PPSP
>> 6. A “usage document” explaining how the protocols defined above, along
>> inter-operate; and how they may be integrated together to produce complete
>> P2P streaming systems.
>>
>> 7. Optionally a ”mobile usage document” (PPSP mobile BCP document) to
>> 2. Network coding mechanisms in P2P streaming. Network coding may be used
>> in P2P streaming, but its support is beyond the scope of current charter.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ppsp mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ppsp
>
>
>

---

From: yunfei zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:43:52 +0800

Hi Christian,
   Thanks for the comments.Please see inline reply.

BR
Yunfei

2009/9/10, Schmidt, Christian 1. (NSN - DE/Munich) <
[email-masked]>:
> chartered to develop standard signaling protocols (called PPSP protocols) for
> P2P streaming systems in both fixed and mobile Internet. Participating

Good revision.I think it's more clear.

> protocols include the PPSP tracker protocol – a signaling protocol between
> “PPSP trackers” and “PPSP peers”, and the PPSP peer protocol – a signaling
> protocol among “PPSP peers”.
>

The first sentence is better understood after your revision, thanks.As for
the order of the clauses, I suggest that it would be better if we explicitly
state the scope of the WG first.

> for the PPSP architecture?

Yes,it will.Thanks for the suggestion.

> This sounds more like a "interop document". Was this the intention?

In fact, PPSP doesn't equal to a *whole* p2p streaming system.To develop a
P2P streaming system, we need some related protocols to support just as the
component architecture proposed in last bar bof.This is the intention why we
need the "interop document".

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf Of
> *ext zhangyunfei
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:24 AM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* [ppsp] ppsp charter discussion
>
>
>  *
>
> ***
>
> *Dear all,*
>
> *   The following is the modified version of PPSP charter(An early version
> and suggestions are highly appreciated.*
>
> **
>
> *           BR*
>
> *            Yunfei*
>
> *--------------------------------------------------------*
>
> ***Description of PPSP Working Group:*
>
> *Goals and Milestones:*
>  ------------------------------
>  zhangyunfei
> 2009-09-10
>