Subject: [RRG] Logistics preferences...

From: "Tony Li" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:04:43 -0700

Hi all,

We've received feedback that folks are interested in slightly different mee=
ting arrangements for Minneapolis.  Under the assumption that we meet there=
 during IETF week, would you prefer:

A) Meeting all day Friday (about 7 hours of total time)
B) Using two normal IETF 2.5 hour slots (only 5 hours)
C) Meeting one afternoon from 1-7, plus another 2.5 hour slot
D) Some other arrangements (please specify)

Please note that whatever we prefer will be constrained by what the IETF se=
cretariat is able and willing to provide, so stack ranking these options is=
 preferable.

Preferences?

Thanks,
Lixia & Tony

--
to unsubscribe send a message to [email-masked] with the
word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
archive: <http://psg.com/lists/rrg/> & ftp://psg.com/pub/lists/rrg

---

From: Brian Dickson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:22:01 -0400

> cretariat is able and willing to provide, so stack ranking these options is=

Hopefully, the majority of presenters/speakers in the RRG are not newbies.

And many of us may be on-site by Sunday, where most of the activities 
are newcomer-oriented.

Furthermore, I think there would be some benefit in providing a break 
between the presentation material,
and the open microphone session, during which folks can absorb the 
material, read references, discuss in small
groups informally, and generally be better prepared to constructively 
discuss approaches under review.

So, here's my idea:

D: 1-7 on Sunday, after which the welcome cocktail hour happens, plus 
another 2.5 hour slot later in the week (maybe Friday morning).

The remainder, in decreasing order of preference:
A, C, B

with specific requests not to schedule conflicts with any of v6ops, 
v6man (both of which are borderline overlap), idr (ditto), (and 
personally also dnsop/dnsext).

Brian Dickson

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:39:56 -0400

> cretariat is able and willing to provide, so stack ranking these  

Dear Tony;

My preference is (most preferred first)

A
B
C

Here is a suggestion :

Have lunch brought in and have the RRG meet from 9:00 AM to 3:30.
Would people be willing to pay extra to do this ? (say, at $ 15 /  
person.)

Also, some requests :

- no Saturday / Sunday meetings for RRG, if you please. That time is  
already spoken for here.
- If we pick "A", let's make sure the infrastructure is there to  
support it.

Regards
Marshall

---

From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:56:10 +0200

tony, 

suggestion for D) a Sunday session from 10AM to 5PM (that would be a
problem iff people want to attend IEPG or one of the newcomers session)
+ session on Friday morning 9AM to 11:30AM. 

then C), A) if local infrastructure/arrangement allows, and finally B)
as lowest preference.

thanks,
-d.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf 
> Of Tony Li
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:05 AM
> To: 'rrg Group'
> Subject: [RRG] Logistics preferences...
> 
> 
> Hi all,
>

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:18:34 +1200

I prefer A by such a large margin that it isn't worth listing
the others.

A minimizes annoying clashes. Neither B nor C would have worked
at all for me in Dublin.

As for Sunday, that wouldn't work for IAB and IESG folk, and
I think it's desirable that they can attend.

   Brian

---

From: "Tony Li" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:46:14 -0700

I've also set up a doodle poll for this:
http://www.doodle.ch/pg8ihbncc9uqxdpa

Please feel free to respond either way, or both, as you see fit.

Tony

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Tony Li [mailto:[email-masked]] 
|Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:05 PM
|To: 'rrg Group'
|Subject: Logistics preferences...
|
|
|Hi all,
|
|We've received feedback that folks are interested in slightly 
|different mee=
|ting arrangements for Minneapolis.  Under the assumption that 
|we meet there=
| during IETF week, would you prefer:
|
|A) Meeting all day Friday (about 7 hours of total time)
|B) Using two normal IETF 2.5 hour slots (only 5 hours)
|C) Meeting one afternoon from 1-7, plus another 2.5 hour slot
|D) Some other arrangements (please specify)
|
|Please note that whatever we prefer will be constrained by 
|what the IETF se=
|cretariat is able and willing to provide, so stack ranking 
|these options is=
| preferable.
|
|Preferences?
|
|Thanks,
|Lixia & Tony

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:04:25 +0100

> D) Some other arrangements (please specify)

C is good (because it allows participants to work informally between 
official meetings and get more done that way), but slot #1 should be 
early in the week and slot #2 in the middle.  The problem is that almost 
every WG likes this kind of schedule.

B is okay.

A is not as good.  I like having time to talk about things in the halls.

> another 2.5 hour slot later in the week (maybe Friday morning).

Sunday is already pretty busy.

---

From: Luigi Iannone <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:13:18 +0200

Hi,

I would say C this gives us more time and also a break to think about  
presentation (as suggested by Brian).

I understand that this may cause clashes, thus the obvious choice is A.

Yet, during  the last meeting, in the afternoon we were 1/3 compared  
to the morning, this is also somehow a limitation....

Luigi

> cretariat is able and willing to provide, so stack ranking these  

Luigi Iannone

[email-masked]

---

From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:22:02 +0200

> during IETF week, would you prefer:

Not sure if I'll be in Minneapolis and if so, if I'll be there until  
1700 on friday, but I'd still prefer the whole day on friday because  
by then all the crazy running around is pretty much over.

Iljitsch

---

From: Christian Vogt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:56:49 +0300

Tony -

> C) Meeting one afternoon from 1-7, plus another 2.5 hour slot

I'd be fine with any of these.

- Christian

---

From: Benno Overeinder <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:12:45 +0200

Hi Tony,

> C) Meeting one afternoon from 1-7, plus another 2.5 hour slot

These options will be fine with me (also in this order of preference).

Regards,

-- Benno

-- 
Benno J. Overeinder
NLnet Labs
http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/

---

From: David Conrad <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:14:39 -0700

> D) Some other arrangements (please specify)

D) Meeting all day Sunday before the IETF

[Purely selfish reasons: Dublin was the 2nd time I've picked up a cold  
and been unable/unwilling to leave my room on Friday.  Perhaps if we  
move it to the beginning of the week, I won't get contaminated and can  
participate in the meetings]

Failing that, I'd vote C.

Regards,
-drc

---

From: Lixia Zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 22:46:45 -0700

> I prefer A by such a large margin that it isn't worth listing

but as others have pointed out:
- we did not have many people left after the afternoon break
   last Friday (could be partly due to the 3rd bullet).
- it'd be good to have a break between 2 halves of the meeting,
   so one has some time to think through and chat.
- If I rephrase Dave Conrad's comments in a different way:
   people tend to get exhausted by the end of the week,
   half day on Friday is OK, but all-day Friday seems a bit
   stretching.

> A minimizes annoying clashes. Neither B nor C would have worked

are you saying you booked fully Monday through Thursday?

> I think it's desirable that they can attend.

agree here.
But maybe it's possible to squeeze out a few hours Sunday evening  
(e.g. 6:30-9:00PM)?

---

From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 10:55:46 +0200

>  last Friday (could be partly due to the 3rd bullet).

We don't know whether this was because:

- friday afternoon never works
- friday afternoon doesn't work in a non-hub city in Europe
- the afternoon presentations weren't compelling in this case

>  so one has some time to think through and chat.

Hm... But everyone reads all the drafts and papers, right? I'm  
not sure that having two half-days with random stuff in the middle  
will work better than a full day without the random stuff.

The only thing I do now is that in Philadelphia, I didn't get a chance  
to attend RRG because it clashed with other stuff. Whole days on  
fridays have the lowest probability of clashing with other stuff and  
traveling/not traveling on friday afternoon is at least a choice, if  
not always one that's going to be made in favor of attending the RRG  
session.

>  half day on Friday is OK, but all-day Friday seems a bit

If they get exhausted that means they're having a busy week... Hard to  
add 7 hours of RRG to that week.

> But maybe it's possible to squeeze out a few hours Sunday evening  

This is far from ideal for those flying in from the east on saturday  
or sunday. (I.e., for me it's 7 hours time difference for Minneapolis  
so 2100 = 2800 = 0400 = the middle of the night = no useful brain  
activity. I'm glad we don't meet until 2200 anymore, this was brutal,  
especially on mondays.)

The annoying thing is that I never have much to do on sunday afternoon  
because nobody ever wants to schedule anything then because of the IAB/ 
IESG stuff.

How about:

- presentations of drafts and papers etc on sunday afternoon, those  
who can't attend can read them beforehand
- discussions on friday morning

---

From: Steven Blake <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:11:39 -0400

>    last Friday (could be partly due to the 3rd bullet).

If people knew further in advance that the meeting would run all-day
Friday, I believe that we might have higher attendance.  I know at least
one person who would have planned to stay for the meeting if he had
known the schedule far enough in advance.

Regards,

// Steve

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:08:25 -0400

> known the schedule far enough in advance.

There is a basic question as to whether the hotel contract will allow  
us a room all
day Friday. That could in principle be found out now for all meetings  
through Hiroshima.

That doesn't mean that the RRG _will_ be scheduled all day on Friday,  
but without it the RRG _cannot be_ (at least,
through the Secretariat).

I have made inquiries and will report back when I find out about  
Minneapolis. Whether people want to risk making travel plans on that  
partial knowledge will be up to them.

My opinion is that if the RRG wants to extend past the time of the  
normal IETF meeting it should make this
a regular feature and get whatever approvals are required to do this  
routinely, so that there is no risk of the room not being available,  
and people can make travel arrangements accordingly.

Regards
Marshall

---

From: "Tony Li" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:03:41 -0700

|If people knew further in advance that the meeting would run all-day
|Friday, I believe that we might have higher attendance.  I 
|know at least
|one person who would have planned to stay for the meeting if he had
|known the schedule far enough in advance.

Our ability to provide notice is constrained by the Secretariat's ability to
determine if the space is going to be available on Friday afternoon (as a
freebie from the hotel).  We already pass that information along as soon as
we get it.

Tony

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:40:18 +1200

> are you saying you booked fully Monday through Thursday?

To a good approximation. There are very few slots when there
is nothing relevant to my interests. That's why I like
the IETF ;-)

> - friday afternoon doesn't work in a non-hub city in Europe

That was my problem; a 6 a.m. flight out of Dublin on
Saturday did *not* attract me.

   Brian

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:34:44 -0400

On Aug 7, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> There is a basic question as to whether the hotel contract will  
> allow us a room all
> day Friday. That could in principle be found out now for all  
> meetings through Hiroshima.
>
> That doesn't mean that the RRG _will_ be scheduled all day on  
> Friday, but without it the RRG _cannot be_ (at least,

The Secretariat reports that we have the meeting rooms until 5:00pm on  
Friday, November 21.

Regards
Marshall

---

From: "Tony Li" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:46:32 -0400

|The Secretariat reports that we have the meeting rooms until 
|5:00pm on  
|Friday, November 21.

Excellent, thanks Marshall.

Given this, and the clear consensus of the recent poll, we will again plan
to do a full day on Friday in Minneapolis.  Please make your travel plans
accordingly.

We will again request this as part of the normal scheduling process and
report when we have a response from the Secretariat.  Even then, the
Secretariat does reserve the right to make changes, so  definitive
scheduling will not be available until the Secretariat's scheduling effort
produces a final schedule.  

Tony

---

From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:07:25 +0200

On 11 aug 2008, at 23:34, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> The Secretariat reports that we have the meeting rooms until 5:00pm  
> on Friday, November 21.

Do you know whether the audio streaming and the network will be  
available until that time? If no on the former and yes on the latter  
(or at least SOME network connectivity) we could arrange for an  
alternative audio streaming setup.

Iljitsch

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:09:28 -0400

I think it is reasonable to try and arrange this; I will see what the  
Secretariat can do.

Regards
Marshall