Subject: Re: [RRG] Renumbering...

From: Dino Farinacci <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:43:56 -0700

> Yes, Tony. I followed you there, and tried to address it when I said
> that there is no business case for the large end user to renumber so  
> it
> just isn't going to happen.
>
> I fault the IETF (and RRG) for consistently failing to recognize some
> exceedingly elementary economics: if you want to stay in business,  
> then
> you don't waste money on needless non-business expenses. Therefore, if
> anybody is going to renumber, it will be an organization that has a
> positive business case to do so, such as an ISP.

Eric, let me ask a question to you, as you represent a large  
enterprise site.

If you knew you could get more bandwidth out of *all* your SP links by  
renumbering, would that be considered that a business expense?

And if you knew you could get more bandwidth out of your links by also  
being a good net citizen by not injecting non-aggregatable routes into  
the core, would they weight into your decision to  spend effort  
deploying a Loc/ID split solution?

> Let's change topics slightly to talk a bit more about elementary
> economics. End users pay ISPs for their Internet connectivity. It is
> therefore the ISP's responsibility to deliver Internet connectivity.  
> If
> they can't, then they will go out of business. ISPs are therefore

But it's not binary. I believe the question is how well do they  
provide connectivity. Do they provide good service. Is the pain of  
staying with an SP worth the gain. Or if the pain is so high, you are  
stuck and can't change.

> motivated to eventually solve the Internet scaling problem -- whether
> publicly or privately -- because they know that if they don't deliver

I don't think that's true. Don't forget they are in business just like  
you are. Of course they want the Internet scale so they have a product  
to sell, but that is more long-term. I think most businesses think  
long-term but act in the short-term.

So the fact that SPs accept PI prefixes and/or long PA prefixes is a  
fact that they care about getting customers before scalability.

> effective Internet connectivity, then the end users will use some  
> other
> ISP or, worse case, develop alternative marketplaces that exclude  
> them.
> Only a suicidal ISP would dare to suggest that a large end user  
> renumber
> as part of an ISP solution because that would negatively differentiate

But they require a site to renumber when the site disconnects from them.

Dino

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