Subject: [Simple] draft-ietf-simple-xml-patch-ops-00

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:17:04 -0800

I was somewhat surprised to see this as a WG item. When do we use this and
when do we use xcap?

I was also sort of wondering about how to deal with the issues of elements
that used name spaces inside of the data portion of attributes. For
example... 

if I have namesace xmlns:z="urn:foo"

then I have sel="z:doc"

Would I ever have the case where the some xml parser library changed my
namespace to xmlns:z="urn:foo" (it would do this perhaps because x was
already in use)? If this happened, it seems like the "z:doc" would not get
changed to "x:doc" and things would break badly.

Thoughts? Is this a problem or is it all avoided some how?

On 11/30/05 12:50 PM, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence
> Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF.
> 
> Title  : An Extensible Markup Language (XML) Patch
>                           Operations Framework Utilizing XML Path
>                           Language (XPath) Selectors
> Author(s) : J. Urpalainen
> Filename : draft-ietf-simple-xml-patch-ops-00.txt
> Pages  : 21
> Date  : 2005-11-30
> 
>    Extensible Markup Language (XML) documents are widely used as
>    containers for the exchange and storage of arbitrary data in today's
>    systems.  Updates to this data require transporting of the entire XML
>    document between hosts, unless there's a mechanism that allows
>    exchanging only the updates of XML documents.  This document
>    describes an XML patch framework utilizing XML Path language (XPath)
>    selectors.  With the aid of these selector values and updated data
>    content a set of patches can then be applied to an existing initial
>    XML document.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-xml-patch-ops-00.txt
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---

From: Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:27:44 -0600

> I was somewhat surprised to see this as a WG item. When do we use  

This draft is intended to be what the group agreed to adopt as the  
solution for
xcap-diff and the partial-* work based on the output of the patch bof  
and the
SIMPLE WG discussion in Vancouver. It went beyond its mandate  
including patch
operations for general text elements - this is something the group  
explicitly decided
to not try to tackle by my memory.

I can see your confusion given that the draft doesn't reference  
partial at all.

Jari - could you provide a revision quicky that includes a section  
pointing to how this
would be used with xcap and with partial?

All - comment on the text modifying proposal quickly. Unless there is  
a very
strong "Oh yeah - we all want to do this this way", and soon,  I will  
ask Jari to remove
this mechanism from this draft and return to exactly the scope we  
agreed to
in Vancouver.

RjS

---

From: Jari Urpalainen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:05 +0200

> I was somewhat surprised to see this as a WG item. When do we use this and
Robert answered to this.
> Thoughts? Is this a problem or is it all avoided some how?
I had some trouble in understanding the issue, but you can add or change
namespace prefixes of some elements when you use local namespace
declarations within them, as an example:
<replace sel="*"><x:doc xmlns:x="urn..." ...</replace>. However, I
cannot imagine a real use case for it. 

In patch-ops the namespaces within the "body" are changed to to use the
declarations within the initial document and matching is based on
local-names and namespace URIs, so a similar model is adopted what XPath
uses when locating nodes. 

br,
Jari

---

From: Jari Urpalainen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:12:55 +0200

> I can see your confusion given that the draft doesn't reference  
Partial pidf format is referenced and it is also mentioned in the text,
isn't that enough ?
> would be used with xcap and with partial?
reference to xcap-diff could be added, but I didn't do it as there isn't
yet a xcap-diff spec that references patch-ops. 
> this mechanism from this draft and return to exactly the scope we  
Agreed, those with a "desperate" need for this should speak up. This is
certainly feature creep that doesn't fit to the spec very well. Also, I
don't like reinventing the wheel unless absolutely necessary, but I
don't feel comfortable with the ipr issue of vcdiff. If that doesn't
vanish I'll intend to remove text-patching from the spec. vcdiff and
gdiff have "copy & add" logic, so in order to differentiate one could
propose a "add & replace" logic like: <p>44</p>New text inserted after
char-pos 44<r l="3">100</r>removed three chars from pos 100 and added
this text. But as said this is still reinventing and as partial-pidf or
xcap-diff do not need this (though text-patching is a separate
operation) it should not be in this spec.  

thanks,
Jari

---

From: Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:32:18 -0800

> Partial pidf format is referenced and it is also mentioned in the  

I meant to say xcap there. Sorry for the confusion.

I do think more text pointing to the uses would be helpful. I'll
try to pull something together to contribute.

RjS