Subject: Re: [Sip] bis-06 now available!

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:27:58 EST

In a message dated 1/28/02 6:32:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> Folks,
>  
>  I have just submitted an update to bis. Until it appears in the
>  archives, you can pick it up at:
>  
<snip>
>  
>  Comments, questions, and criticisms (and I'm sure people will have them)
>  are welcome.
>  
>  Thanks,
>  Jonathan R.
>  
Amazing work Jonathan and all.

History of document size:
RFC2543 331k bytes
-02 381k bytes
-04 449k bytes
-05 510 k bytes
-06 667k bytes

(Largest RFC published to date - 585k bytes)

Will we reach 1meg before the next SIP RFC is published?

Mike

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---

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 01:24:02 -0500

I'm not sure if this is an insult or a complement. I read it as an
insult (i.e, sip is getting bloated and we have the biggest spec ever
produced by ietf). 

-Jonathan R. 

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.            72 Eagle Rock Avenue
Chief Scientist                         First Floor
dynamicsoft                             East Hanover, NJ 07936
[email-masked]                 FAX: (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                  PH:  (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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From: "Henning G. Schulzrinne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:39:33 -0500

> insult (i.e, sip is getting bloated and we have the biggest spec ever

If we're lucky, we may just miss that distinction, due to the removal of
all the changes sections (except for the "big picture" summary).

However, I think the point made implicitly is a valid one - there has
been a temptation to turn the RFC into a deployment manual and software
specification. People proposing ever more elaborate philosophical text
on the state of the world might want to keep the costs in mind. Specs
become bloated one paragraph and one good intention at a time...

-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs

---

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:15:13 -0500

> all the changes sections (except for the "big picture" summary).

Right. Allison has asked for a single section summarizing the real
normative changes since rfc2543. This new section will be present in
bis-07 on Monday, I hope.
> become bloated one paragraph and one good intention at a time...

Sure, but its a tradeoff just like everything we do at IETF. Too little
"deployment manual" materials will be a recipe for interop failures; our
lesson over the years was that more was needed beyond rfc2543, IMHO. Too
much, and you dictate architectures and implementations, and thus loose
the flexibility of SIP and make it hard to read at the same time. I
think rfc2543 was too much towards the side of underspecified. I think
that bis is closer to the mark, perhaps erring slightly on the side of
hand-holding than under specification, but I think thats OK.

-Jonathan R.