Subject: Re: [Sipping] VPN session established by SIP

From: "Brijesh Kumar" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:14:27 -0500

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shimon Nurick" <[email-masked]>
To: "Dale R. Worley" <[email-masked]>; "Sipping" <[email-masked]>

>VPN by its nature a client server mechanism, not a point to point -
>And SIP to date, has got a long way to go, to be the choice for crossing
> all the NW horrors.

Simon:

If you look beneath any protocol, it  is just a mechanism to   encapsulate a
payload (x) or set of  payload (x1.. xn) between any  point A and B. A
protocol
definition also  tells when to send, and  accept or discard a payload. All
other
restrictions are human defined, and it is not worth telling that this
protocol
should only carry a payload for this purpose, but not for that. These are
emotional arguments, and not technical because there is someone out
there who will do things differently, and won't agree.

Now, coming back to your main argument, a VPN can be created using client
server mode as well as in the end to end mode. Moreover, creating suitable
bindings for VPN is more to do with  how end points should use the payload,
rather than why SIP should or should not transport this VPN related payload.

>According to the logic running here all protocols can be replaced by SIP
-
>Why do HTTP if you can do SIP - Do SIP and application/HTTP ?
> Why do Telnet if you can do SIP - Do SIP and application/Telnet?
> etc......

That is not correct interpretation in my opinion.

Who says one can't distribute BGP's  routing updates via SIP, if one wants
to?  Such a solution may not be interoperable, but one can do it using
"application/bgp".  If some people think, this will work more efficiently
then current BGP mechanism, they will do it regardless of what anyone
else thinks unless, either they realize themselves or someone convinces
them with suitable arguments that there are more efficient, secure,
easy, simpler etc. alternatives to  achieve just this .

Now,  I can go back to writing a paper on SIP for distributing routing
information :-)

cheers,

--brijesh

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Dale R. Worley
Sent: Monday, 16 January, 2006 16:46
To: Sipping
Subject: Re: [Sipping] VPN session established by SIP

On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 21:56 -0600, Dean Willis wrote:
> Of course they will. But nothing says that the endpoints, now that
> they've "found" each other using SIP, can't start an IKE exchange to
> set up keying for IPSEC. IKEv2 is about key management, not
> correspondent discovery. Or they can do a TLS VPN. Or even (watch more

> ADs explode) a VPN over MSRP relays.

SIP seems to have two advantages here.  One is that the business drivers
will lead to it being widely deployed, with good interoperability, and
workable ways of dealing with NATs, firewalls, and other network
horrors, so piggybacking on SIP has a high probability of working out of
the box in any given situation.

The more technically pleasing advantage is that SIP does not apply any
packet-by-packet wrapper to the "session" data itself, so there's no
penalty relative to the "native" tunneling protocol.

I'm starting to visualize SIP bodies with content-type "application/ike-
setup"...

Dale

_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use
[email-masked] for questions on current sip Use
[email-masked] for new developments of core SIP

_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip
Use [email-masked] for new developments of core SIP

_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip
Use [email-masked] for new developments of core SIP

---

From: David R Oran <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:51:05 -0500

Oran's law of application protocols states:

"Any application protocol which demonstrates any degree of success  
inevitably winds up being used as a transport protocol for some other  
application, or even as a tunnel for a lower layer protocol".