Subject: Re: Discussing RTCS

From: "Sean P. Turner" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:19:44 +0200

Does anyone have an opinion on bringing this to the working group?

spt

Blake Ramsdell wrote:

Peter Gutmann has made an individual draft submission for his CMS-based
RTCS protocol. A URL to this draft is:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gutmann-cms-rtcs-00.txt

He would like to get some review of the CMS parts of this, and it seems
reasonable to discuss it here on the IETF-SMIME list if there is
interest.

Since this draft is CMS based and potentially adds value to CMS or
S/MIME in general, should we consider bringing it into this working
group?

Comments?

Blake
--
Blake Ramsdell | Brute Squad Labs | http://www.brutesquadlabs.com

---

From: Denis Pinkas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:28:32 +0200

Sean,

> Does anyone have an opinion on bringing this to the working group?

This is a topic to be addressed by the PKIX WG, not by the SMIME WG.

The PKIX WG is attempting (but not always succeeding) to avoid duplication 
of protocols for the same topic.

We all know that it would have been better to use CMS for building the OCSP 
  protocol, but this was not the case.

The advantages of this new protocol versus draft-ietf-pkix-ocspv2-ext-01.txt 
(Online Certificate Status Protocol, version 2) and the differences should 
be first explained.

Denis

---

From: "Jim Schaad" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:30:53 +0200

I agree with Denis, this is a certificate validation issue and as such
belongs in the PKIX WG if to be standardized by the IETF.  I think that
we can provide a review of the document if requested for it's usage of
CMS, but not it's general suitablity.

jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:29 AM
> To: Sean P. Turner
> Cc: [email-masked]; pkix
> Subject: Re: Discussing RTCS
> 
> 
> 
> Sean,
> 
> >>Peter Gutmann has made an individual draft submission for his 
> >>CMS-based RTCS protocol.  A URL to this draft is:
> >>
> >>He would like to get some review of the CMS parts of this, and it 
> >>seems reasonable to discuss it here on the IETF-SMIME list 
> if there is 
> >>interest.
> >>

---

From: Stephen Kent <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:46:24 -0400

>CMS, but not it's general suitablity.

Jim,

I agree with you and Denis that this is really a PKIX matter, vs. an 
S/MIME matter. However, I had several problems with Peter bringing 
this in as a WG item:
	- we already have OCSP and OCSPv2 has been worked on

	- this protocol goes beyond the OCSP semantics to provide 
delegated cert (not cert path) validation. we have just agreed to 
adopt SCVP for delegated cert path validation, and I was worried that 
this overlap would conflict with SCVP

	- PKIX has been told to not take on new work items

Steve

---

From: "Tony Capel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:08:56 -0400

Blake:

I see potential value in a "CMS style" request/response format for a
certificate validation service.

Specifically one might imagine that a (signed) CMS data structure returned
by a validating server could be integrated directing within the CMS message
types.  This would require compatibility between the server response and
CMS.

I realise that Peter's proposal makes a big deal about its ability to use
simplified database lookups, yes/no responses, etc. and that this aspect has
prompted strong PKIX reactions.

However, the ability to use directly compatible CMS structures is the
attraction for me.  How the server is implemented is arguably an
implementation (or maybe PKIX) issue.

So, yes I would like to see some discussion on this topic here; and if
Peter's proposal is a way to do that fine - although I agree that if we
discuss it, we should do it co-operatively with PKIX.  That is, we should
address CMS compatibility issues (and how this service might be used by CMS)
and leave the server side to them.

Tony

| -----Original Message-----
| From: [email-masked] 
| [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Blake Ramsdell
| Sent: June 27, 2003 5:12 PM
| To: [email-masked]
| Subject: Discussing RTCS
| 
| 
| 
| Peter Gutmann has made an individual draft submission for his 
| CMS-based RTCS protocol.  A URL to this draft is:
| 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gutmann-cms-rtcs-00.txt

He would like to get some review of the CMS parts of this, and it seems
reasonable to discuss it here on the IETF-SMIME list if there is interest.

Since this draft is CMS based and potentially adds value to CMS or S/MIME in
general, should we consider bringing it into this working group?

Comments?

Blake