From nobody Tue Sep 1 17:25:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270691ACD54 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 17:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.311 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id baEuYcqC-b6J for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 17:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22b.google.com (mail-ob0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1274C1ACD53 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 17:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obqa2 with SMTP id a2so13796792obq.3 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:25:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Sn6cGdFpWBXSonN07uvTkdu3nuzEo0lLU62AQOLMsOk=; b=C8cLRoVYkaBu6Jpz1+AMz6LCu7HXTEZHzft1jFAJ5y2ZKw1wOjNeO0qwe0l2JuPpWW dYM0iYqVKdCuinuc35uLi6IG1EqnBZZq4ZeDKOlDzMGhd2xJRXaTTiWti9cLE2/oecOv mN1shJHQ1KOPkah8N114zEoR0o+voJXaRRP9ss5b2fYo664AI2RHTd4SVBi848OGXYZi zJ9HDOb2X3C/viK1vie/VrFAR21VuczaJjBudfGGjG/6hH2bpLY+VU96Sg40vYHxK3Lh 01tiMsNcCGNmc3N6Q1b0TP8gOb1QRo6wuNmBnGH0mUKDEkUFC7nStEaBcotvir71s/FM ixUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Sn6cGdFpWBXSonN07uvTkdu3nuzEo0lLU62AQOLMsOk=; b=GdJUmhRkibk7Djt67idFxxBhuUmX0mpjzBjrTCxEMG+B+lbVTlkL4iXTyiQ/SlUpE7 o3MdUI5oUbqnl+7V7/lYxsmLCvd1Yf/cABWmUD12KIg/rnOvYoJKVh0k7LXUgvQpSYHU p6lvF5DpnPyzN2VQEz4Z8gdQZHa4UmRE1zZFnK/or3HCyQ1Z75VOaYpN+Vz0VSJX+ltV mdMaV67M5whgJu/Yi9/n6XkyPxxvanjC2dHv6N0WYp0Ns/E6SnfYM4xa3kL/CxsjNose m6prlwcE2hYILg/QMIlWxHUGAYXqMnok5VHU59cg+VLUwVD/iOJy9HwJDtLItfPUT+eo lS8w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmX7pyL48P4BXLr7ZZB43IIT0YQdpjxKgzhChcGvDe+ztJRjDvIsxZI/YrwlOLQx9oKfHuv MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.42.197 with SMTP id q5mr18161173oel.52.1441153523784; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 17:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.95.70 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 17:25:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 20:25:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Neal Cardwell To: Veaceslav ROMAN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:25:26 -0000 On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: > DEALY algorithm supposed to compare average RTT of first 8 packets > (curr_rtt) in the round with minRTT of the previous round The Hystart delay-based algorithm compares the min RTT over the first 8 packets in a round trip (curr_rtt) with the minimum RTT (delay_min) seen since the connection started, or the latest RTO. > If I may help with traces from life LTE (not loaded) network, I'll do it with pleasure. If you have a representative LTE packet trace (pcap) showing the Hystart delay algorithm performing poorly, or a set of experiments showing there are better parameters for the Hystart delay algorithm, that would be interesting. As Eric notes, the Hystart ACK Train algorithm is less interesting, as Eric already discovered that one does not work well with pacing. neal From nobody Wed Sep 2 00:45:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4481B4995 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 00:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.29 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v_opeXfBExoB for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 00:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223EB1B4988 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 00:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D993B26F6; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 10:45:52 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246358-1; Wed, 02 Sep 2015 07:45:52 GMT Received: from XCHSRV03.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.63]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA143B2518; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 10:45:52 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV03.main.orange.md ([fe80::6dbc:28dd:213b:8931%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 10:45:41 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Eric Dumazet Thread-Topic: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagP//7Z4A//8pVJA= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 07:45:40 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E6501A@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 07:45:50 -0000 VGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciBwcm9tcHQgYW5zd2VyLg0KSSd2ZSBjaGVja2VkIHJlY2VudCB0cmFjZXMu 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dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vdGNwbQ0K From nobody Wed Sep 2 01:18:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6124E1A9055 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:18:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N9OZ9NDGpIQg for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB2B1A00BF for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE2D3B271A; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 11:18:33 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246363-1; Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:18:32 GMT Received: from XCHSRV04.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.64]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63983B24B8; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 11:18:32 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV04.main.orange.md ([fe80::bdbd:3bcd:a0d2:9b6%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 11:18:21 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Neal Cardwell Thread-Topic: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgA= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 08:18:21 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:18:29 -0000 VGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciBwcm9tcHQgYW5zd2VyLg0KRm9yIHlvdXR1YmUsIG9mIGNhdXNlIEkgZG8g c2VlIG9ubHkgY2xpZW50IHNpZGUgdHJhY2VzLCBhbmQgSSBjYW4gc2VuZCBpbW1lZGlhdGVseS4N 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VFQgb2YgdGhlIHByZXZpb3VzIHJvdW5kDQoNClRoZSBIeXN0YXJ0IGRlbGF5LWJhc2VkIGFsZ29y aXRobSBjb21wYXJlcyB0aGUgbWluIFJUVCBvdmVyIHRoZSBmaXJzdA0KOCBwYWNrZXRzIGluIGEg cm91bmQgdHJpcCAoY3Vycl9ydHQpIHdpdGggdGhlIG1pbmltdW0gUlRUIChkZWxheV9taW4pIHNl ZW4gc2luY2UgdGhlIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gc3RhcnRlZCwgb3IgdGhlIGxhdGVzdCBSVE8uDQoNCj4g SWYgSSBtYXkgaGVscCB3aXRoIHRyYWNlcyBmcm9tIGxpZmUgTFRFIChub3QgbG9hZGVkKSBuZXR3 b3JrLCBJJ2xsIGRvIGl0IHdpdGggcGxlYXN1cmUuDQoNCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGEgcmVwcmVzZW50 YXRpdmUgTFRFIHBhY2tldCB0cmFjZSAocGNhcCkgc2hvd2luZyB0aGUgSHlzdGFydCBkZWxheSBh bGdvcml0aG0gcGVyZm9ybWluZyBwb29ybHksIG9yIGEgc2V0IG9mIGV4cGVyaW1lbnRzIHNob3dp bmcgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGJldHRlciBwYXJhbWV0ZXJzIGZvciB0aGUgSHlzdGFydCBkZWxheSBhbGdv cml0aG0sIHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcuDQoNCkFzIEVyaWMgbm90ZXMsIHRoZSBI eXN0YXJ0IEFDSyBUcmFpbiBhbGdvcml0aG0gaXMgbGVzcyBpbnRlcmVzdGluZywgYXMgRXJpYyBh bHJlYWR5IGRpc2NvdmVyZWQgdGhhdCBvbmUgZG9lcyBub3Qgd29yayB3ZWxsIHdpdGggcGFjaW5n Lg0KDQpuZWFsDQo= From nobody Wed Sep 2 05:25:48 2015 Return-Path: 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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 08:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Neal Cardwell To: Veaceslav ROMAN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:25:47 -0000 On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:18 AM, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: > Thank you for prompt answer. > For youtube, of cause I do see only client side traces, and I can send immediately. Great! > For the server side traces, can you suggest the minimum Linux kernel for which it will make sense to analyze traces? To be useful, the traces would need to be from a kernel that is version 4.0 or newer, as the latest CUBIC changes were in v4.0. You would also need to disable the ACK train detection with: echo 2 > /sys/module/tcp_cubic/parameters/hystart_detect And then ideally you would run with the fq qdisc, to get pacing: https://lwn.net/Articles/565421/ neal > > Veaceslav Roman > Technical and IT director > Orange Moldova S.A. > Fix: +37322575400 > Mob: +37369198400 > Fax: +37322575306 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neal Cardwell [mailto:ncardwell@google.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 02 September 2015 03:25 > To: Veaceslav ROMAN > Cc: Ingemar Johansson S; Piers O'Hanlon; tcpm@ietf.org; Sangtae Ha; Eric Dumazet; end2end-interest@postel.org > Subject: Re: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: >> DEALY algorithm supposed to compare average RTT of first 8 packets >> (curr_rtt) in the round with minRTT of the previous round > > The Hystart delay-based algorithm compares the min RTT over the first > 8 packets in a round trip (curr_rtt) with the minimum RTT (delay_min) seen since the connection started, or the latest RTO. > >> If I may help with traces from life LTE (not loaded) network, I'll do it with pleasure. > > If you have a representative LTE packet trace (pcap) showing the Hystart delay algorithm performing poorly, or a set of experiments showing there are better parameters for the Hystart delay algorithm, that would be interesting. > > As Eric notes, the Hystart ACK Train algorithm is less interesting, as Eric already discovered that one does not work well with pacing. > > neal From nobody Wed Sep 2 05:28:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8959E1A8771 for ; 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Wed, 02 Sep 2015 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.33.148 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E6501A@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E6501A@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 08:28:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Neal Cardwell To: Veaceslav ROMAN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:28:03 -0000 On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: > Thank you for prompt answer. > I've checked recent traces. > The URI points to ...youtube.com, but the IP address points to 195.95.178= .x which belongs to a hosting company. > Is it possible to not be patched ? Traffic from that IP range should have the behavior Eric is referring to (just HYSTART_DELAY, no HYSTART_ACK_TRAIN). neal > Veaceslav Roman > Technical and IT director > Orange Moldova S.A. > Fix: +37322575400 > Mob: +37369198400 > Fax: +37322575306 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Dumazet [mailto:edumazet@google.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 02 September 2015 00:49 > To: Veaceslav ROMAN > Cc: Ingemar Johansson S; Piers O'Hanlon; Neal Cardwell; tcpm@ietf.org; Sa= ngtae Ha; end2end-interest@postel.org > Subject: Re: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment > > I really doubt Youtube exits slow start on ack train detection, since we = disabled it on all Google fleet more than 16 months ago. > > -static int hystart_detect __read_mostly =3D HYSTART_ACK_TRAIN | HYSTART_= DELAY; > +/* Google-internal: we disable HYSTART_ACK_TRAIN because it exits slow > + * start spuriously when used with the fq/pacing qdisc: > + */ > +static int hystart_detect __read_mostly =3D HYSTART_DELAY; > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: >> I am impatient to see the results of your investigations. >> In real LTE network, seen systematic bad results. E.g. on downloading Yo= utube of 8 MB systematically exit slow start when Bytes-In-Flight ~50 KB, t= hen slowly grow up to 500 KB until the end of the download and no drops at = all (estimation using timestamps). >> On a test server, if Hystart switch off the average speed double (in LTE= ) , even though, of cause, drops appear. But Internet is not my test server= . >> >> Such a pain that even begin to look at code. In particular, in original = idea, which is good, the DEALY algorithm supposed to compare average RTT of= first 8 packets (curr_rtt) in the round with minRTT of the previous round.= But in current implementation is compared with min_delay which is continuo= usly updated after the curr_rtt in the current round is computed (8 packets= ). Is it something here which I miss? >> >> If I may help with traces from life LTE (not loaded) network, I'll do it= with pleasure. >> >> Veaceslav Roman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar >> Johansson S >> Sent: Monday, 22 June 2015 12:23 >> To: Piers O'Hanlon; Neal Cardwell >> Cc: tcpm@ietf.org; Sangtae Ha; Ingemar Johansson S; Eric Dumazet; >> end2end-interest@postel.org >> Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment >> >> Hi >> >> Sorry for the delay and thanks for the response. The 4.0.4 is the one th= at I have implemented. I have not involved any Linux networking list for th= e moment. That is perhaps a good idea once I get to understand this better. >> >> Currently I don't have any conclusive results that shows that there is a= real issue with the current HyStart. Yes I can see a few cases where mainl= y the DELAY algorithm exits a bit early, and while one can argue that it is= a bit too early, there seems anyway to be enough data in the RLC buffers t= o utilize the link well in most of the cases. It is only in a few corner c= ases that I have seen issues with a very low link utilization. >> >> As I cannot right now find a larger set of cases where HyStart is a gene= ral issue it has not been possible to try out Neal's suggested modification= s. >> >> I still have some more investigations to do after the vacation, this may= show if there are general issues with HyStart. >> >> /Ingemar >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Piers O'Hanlon [mailto:p.ohanlon@gmail.com] >>> Sent: den 5 juni 2015 19:02 >>> To: Ingemar Johansson S >>> Cc: tcpm@ietf.org; end2end-interest@postel.org >>> Subject: Re: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment >>> >>> Hi Ingemar, >>> >>> Looking at linux-4.04 git code: >>> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux- >>> stable.git/tree/net/ipv4/tcp_cubic.c?id=3Drefs/tags/v4.0.4#n403 >>> >>> It seems the HYSTART_DELAY code has been tweaked into a somewhat >>> similar direction (right shift 3 instead of the original 4) to the patc= h: >>> HYSTART_DELAY_THRESH(ca- >>> >delay_min >> 3)) { >>> >>> Although the ACK train detection does appear unchanged. >>> >>> It would seem that Hystart could have issues at very high rates as it >>> does rely on a few default parameters that might not be suitable for >>> such environments. I can also imagine that it may not work so well on >>> WiFi with block ACKing as Hystart uses a fixed window of 8 packets to >>> estimate current delay which may end up being one block of packets... >>> >>> Did you try asking this question on any Linux networking lists? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Piers. >>> >>> On 26 May 2015, at 12:38, Ingemar Johansson S wrote: >>> >>> > Hi >>> > >>> > Does anybody know if the TCP Cubic HyStart patch described in the >>> > link >>> below is being used widely ? >>> > It does not seem to be implemented in the latest Linux code. >>> > http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/85945/ >>> > >>> > Regards >>> > Ingemar >>> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> > Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. >>> > Senior Researcher >>> > >>> > Ericsson AB >>> > Wireless Access Networks >>> > Labratoriegr=C3=A4nd 11 >>> > 971 28, Lule=C3=A5, Sweden >>> > Phone +46-1071 43042 >>> > SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 >>> > >>> ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>> c >>> om> >>> > www.ericsson.com >>> > >>> > "No man has a good enough memory >>> > to be a successful liar" >>> > Abraham >>> Lincoln>> tml> >>> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > end2end-interest mailing list >>> > end2end-interest@postel.org >>> > http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/end2end-interest >>> > Contact list-owner@postel.org for assistance. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tcpm mailing list >> tcpm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From nobody Wed Sep 2 05:50:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0261B3AA3 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 05:50:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f_5snr6GGzzg for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 05:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jenni2.inet.fi (mta-out1.inet.fi [62.71.2.230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96A71B3AA2 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 05:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from t40700-la020.org.aalto.fi (130.233.145.107) by jenni2.inet.fi (8.5.142.08) (authenticated as saropa-1) id 55DB14CC0020C9B6 for tcpm@ietf.org; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 15:50:47 +0300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Pasi Sarolahti In-Reply-To: <26593_1438350792_55BB7DC8_26593_154_1_3C5AD4D0-3AE1-45CA-B93E-E06935E3F99D@iki.fi> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 15:50:44 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3627CF6C-30F3-4D6C-8DD2-3CC1C98EC880@iki.fi> References: <26593_1438350792_55BB7DC8_26593_154_1_3C5AD4D0-3AE1-45CA-B93E-E06935E3F99D@iki.fi> To: "tcpm@ietf.org Extensions" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-undeployed-02 X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:50:52 -0000 Hi, The WGLC on tcpm-undeployed ended some time ago, and below is a draft = write-up in the new essay format. I recorded no major comments, but = there are a few minor nits the authors might want to take care of before = we submit the document. Thanks to everyone who have contributed (by authoring or commenting)! - Pasi =97=97=97=97=97=97 1. Summary Document shepherd is Pasi Sarolahti. Responsible Area Director is Martin Stiemerling. This document reclassifies old, unused TCP-related RFCs into Historic status. In addition, a selection of other old RFCs are reclassified as Informational. It is an administrative document that does not specify any protocol modifications. 2. Review and Consensus Document was reviewed by multiple TCPM WG participants. Given its administrative nature, there has been no controversy over it, and it is generally supported by the TCPM community. The inclusion of the TCPMUX document (RFC 1078) raised some discussion earlier, because implementations of TCPMUX have been reported in some OS distributions, although it is not in use to our knowledge. There was consensus in the TCPM WG that because of the operational and security concerns in TCPMUX, it should also be declared Historic. 3. Intellectual Property The document declares no new technology, but just refers to existing old RFCs. It does not involve new Intellectual Property. (TBD: ask the question anyway from authors) 4. Other Points Because this is an administrative document reclassifying existing documents, it does not involve new IANA considerations or security considerations, nor new registries. =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97 On 31 Jul 2015, at 16:52, Pasi Sarolahti wrote: > Hi, >=20 > The tcpm-undeployed draft has been on hold for a while, but we now = believe it is ok to be submitted for publication. Therefore this mail = starts a working group last call for draft-ietf-tcpm-undeployed-02 = ("Moving Outdated TCP Extensions and TCP-related Documents to Historic = and Informational Status"), to be submitted as Informational RFC. The = WGLC runs until Friday, August 21st (three weeks because of the ongoing = summer holiday period). >=20 > Link to the HTML version of the document: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-undeployed-02 . >=20 > Please let us know if you have any comments about the latest version. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > - Pasi >=20 > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From nobody Thu Sep 3 12:10:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1E91B29A9 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:10:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zNu2gzLhoisY for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D421A0025 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D703B27A2; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 22:10:16 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246633-1; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 19:10:16 GMT Received: from XCHSRV03.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.63]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9454E3B274F; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 22:10:16 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV03.main.orange.md ([fe80::6dbc:28dd:213b:8931%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 22:10:04 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Neal Cardwell Thread-Topic: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgAAAuJsAABGVozQ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 19:10:03 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 19:10:48 -0000 PiBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHByb21wdCBhbnN3ZXIuDQo+IEZvciB5b3V0dWJlLCBvZiBjYXVzZSBJ IGRvIHNlZSBvbmx5IGNsaWVudCBzaWRlIHRyYWNlcywgYW5kIEkgY2FuIHNlbmQgaW1tZWRpYXRl bHkuDQoNCj4gR3JlYXQhDQoNCkV4Y3VzZSBteSBpZ25vcmFuY2UgYnV0IEkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyB0 aGUgcnVsZXMgb2YgdGhpcyBleGNoYW5nZS4gQ2FuIEkgc2VuZCBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiB0cmFjZXMg YXMgbWFpbCBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBvciB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHBsYWNlIGZvciB1cGxvYWQsIG9yIEkg Y2FuIHVzZSBhIHB1YmxpYyB1cGxvYWQgPyBFYWNoIHRyYWNlIGZpbGUgaXMgfjIuMiBNQiBhbmQg Y29udGFpbiAxIFNEIGFuZCAxIEhEIGRvd25sb2FkIHRyYWNlLiANCg0KDQo+IEZvciB0aGUgc2Vy dmVyIHNpZGUgdHJhY2VzLCBjYW4geW91IHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhlIG1pbmltdW0gTGludXgga2VybmVs IGZvciB3aGljaCBpdCB3aWxsIG1ha2Ugc2Vuc2UgdG8gYW5hbHl6ZSB0cmFjZXM/DQoNCj4gVG8g 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IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gREVBTFkgYWxnb3JpdGhtIHN1cHBvc2VkIHRvIGNvbXBhcmUgYXZlcmFnZSBS VFQgb2YgZmlyc3QgOCBwYWNrZXRzDQo+PiAoY3Vycl9ydHQpIGluIHRoZSByb3VuZCB3aXRoIG1p blJUVCBvZiB0aGUgcHJldmlvdXMgcm91bmQNCj4NCj4gVGhlIEh5c3RhcnQgZGVsYXktYmFzZWQg YWxnb3JpdGhtIGNvbXBhcmVzIHRoZSBtaW4gUlRUIG92ZXIgdGhlIGZpcnN0DQo+IDggcGFja2V0 cyBpbiBhIHJvdW5kIHRyaXAgKGN1cnJfcnR0KSB3aXRoIHRoZSBtaW5pbXVtIFJUVCAoZGVsYXlf bWluKSBzZWVuIHNpbmNlIHRoZSBjb25uZWN0aW9uIHN0YXJ0ZWQsIG9yIHRoZSBsYXRlc3QgUlRP Lg0KPg0KPj4gSWYgSSBtYXkgaGVscCB3aXRoIHRyYWNlcyBmcm9tIGxpZmUgTFRFIChub3QgbG9h ZGVkKSBuZXR3b3JrLCBJJ2xsIGRvIGl0IHdpdGggcGxlYXN1cmUuDQo+DQo+IElmIHlvdSBoYXZl IGEgcmVwcmVzZW50YXRpdmUgTFRFIHBhY2tldCB0cmFjZSAocGNhcCkgc2hvd2luZyB0aGUgSHlz dGFydCBkZWxheSBhbGdvcml0aG0gcGVyZm9ybWluZyBwb29ybHksIG9yIGEgc2V0IG9mIGV4cGVy aW1lbnRzIHNob3dpbmcgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGJldHRlciBwYXJhbWV0ZXJzIGZvciB0aGUgSHlzdGFy dCBkZWxheSBhbGdvcml0aG0sIHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcuDQo+DQo+IEFzIEVy aWMgbm90ZXMsIHRoZSBIeXN0YXJ0IEFDSyBUcmFpbiBhbGdvcml0aG0gaXMgbGVzcyBpbnRlcmVz dGluZywgYXMgRXJpYyBhbHJlYWR5IGRpc2NvdmVyZWQgdGhhdCBvbmUgZG9lcyBub3Qgd29yayB3 ZWxsIHdpdGggcGFjaW5nLg0KPg0KPiBuZWFsDQo= From nobody Thu Sep 3 12:19:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699631B2ECB for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:19:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H_aqQsFnQPbs for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x233.google.com (mail-ob0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with 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:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=i37/pXYtep08GTLofN5dkTa0LYJ8tla4XxqmgnvvvTE=; b=dsmaGy6YnpRYdag3i64bQlCJsfuY8dfhQhAwLVgAsB3Stv4ICueEe3UezFCcPWT6Vb 5CQJMNl9XnTZgbem9tDc2Fuwd8yqr+1IsBmDuoRx91wiwC+KGPGZ2idknFKsyyrBAcGY 1aSsYb66qHskkthRhjp/vJMSSFT6AeSzbWAauvndn4ppMkSe/QAeKdtibZO20UDFlU0d GXIt6y42Jeze/MibifuwgsrCURIEATMI5ywNpzhwg8WVzoaCdYkNhjDbGvgPElNtUucH F2ZbV2H5rWGpCn6SEoPYzgaaZxZ/JYv2/HaEU6b02+YcYotqzpSaO7TiEXpKoYbB+xpn OyVA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk4gp0v5fSn575paRXKjAgg0uvdjnu563rluXyWPpvO/DvtgdlALS/sOj+BChBYYqq+CWav MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.51.5 with SMTP id g5mr11778239oeo.35.1441307978957; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.95.70 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:19:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:19:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: Neal Cardwell To: Veaceslav ROMAN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 19:19:43 -0000 On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: >> Thank you for prompt answer. >> For youtube, of cause I do see only client side traces, and I can send immediately. > >> Great! > > Excuse my ignorance but I don't know the rules of this exchange. > Can I send a couple of traces as mail attachments or there is a > place for upload, or I can use a public upload ? Each trace file is > ~2.2 MB and contain 1 SD and 1 HD download trace. My guess is that for an file of that size you'd be best off with posting it on a publicly accessible web URL somewhere under your control. >> And then ideally you would run with the fq qdisc, to get pacing: >> https://lwn.net/Articles/565421/ > > It will take a little to setup 4.0, none in my team has an experience with it yet, OK. What kernel version are you running? I guess you could just patch your hystart_update() in tcp_cubic.c to look like v4.0, disable Hystart ACK train detection, and enable fq. That should capture most of what would be interesting. neal From nobody Thu Sep 3 14:14:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA18B1B36C1 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gWUNVttU10Xx for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 521BA1B35AA for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pacwi10 with SMTP id wi10so1763434pac.3 for ; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :content-type:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9grHjvCCGHMcbyKFSy2xX2L6J9i7nLn8PSbg3PqtERQ=; b=Oy8/ZI3euTofy7iHRrfVO9ebS3o5QnaFZOeiWFzxVOsHZTwrREuyGyloSBf5AJDhQF HPWVvO6BoYFJ0Qe3NPT2hyYDzSOWyM4BC3d2r+nUCgLAY45q9jjfbJc1qgHmgyG6/V/R cWbadedrIp35PCS2F/gzHBIwTfglDwJpHEHnurjesWblyowHKdMs3SHcrbYRSZMLUQ1c Q4WwePBmUmOZOfJhbOuXeyByuZR1hUgLMIsYdWztlbG2N0gHxPOINoWdVO1tavOv0har JmDEEMYcemQle15LCEWNHSc7XOZQ9WFn48UUXrfumFSgrN6Q4hk9x/JkprF6g3WgomeO vPQg== X-Received: by 10.66.227.2 with SMTP id rw2mr55183776pac.98.1441314844987; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:0:1000:3e02:50e1:bf5d:3c4:a905? ([2620:0:1000:3e02:50e1:bf5d:3c4:a905]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id tz1sm57120pbc.50.2015.09.03.14.14.03 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> From: Eric Dumazet To: Neal Cardwell Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:14:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4-0ubuntu2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 21:14:06 -0000 On Thu, 2015-09-03 at 15:19 -0400, Neal Cardwell wrote: > tps://lwn.net/Articles/565421/ > > > > It will take a little to setup 4.0, none in my team has an experience with it yet, > > OK. What kernel version are you running? I guess you could just patch > your hystart_update() in tcp_cubic.c to look like v4.0, disable > Hystart ACK train detection, and enable fq. That should capture most > of what would be interesting. > AFAIK no kernel patch/build is even required. echo 2 >/sys/module/tcp_cubic/parameters/hystart_detect And that should be good ;) For the fq pacing stuff, you could try the following, even if it is not 'perfect' in the sense you wont have multiqueue support if your NIC is capable of. tc qdisc replace dev eth0 root fq From nobody Thu Sep 3 14:22:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139BC1ACC8C for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:22:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h28QZ4pihoqy for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7731A023E for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7F93B2728; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 00:22:16 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246641-1; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 21:22:16 GMT Received: from XCHSRV04.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.64]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CE93B265A; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 00:22:16 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV04.main.orange.md ([fe80::bdbd:3bcd:a0d2:9b6%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 00:22:04 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Eric Dumazet , Neal Cardwell Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgAAAuJsAABGVozQ///TRACAAB/3AP//y9HQ Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 21:22:03 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E67852@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> In-Reply-To: <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 21:22:12 -0000 VGhhbmsgeW91LA0KV2lsbCBmb2xsb3cgeW91ciBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucy4NCkkgYWxzbyBndWVzcyB3 ZSdsbCBiZXR0ZXIgc3dpdGNoIG9mZiBHU08vVFNPID8NCg0KVmVhY2VzbGF2IFJvbWFuDQoNCg0K LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEVyaWMgRHVtYXpldCBbbWFpbHRvOmVy aWMuZHVtYXpldEBnbWFpbC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCAwNCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjAxNSAw MDoxNA0KVG86IE5lYWwgQ2FyZHdlbGwNCkNjOiBWZWFjZXNsYXYgUk9NQU47IHRjcG1AaWV0Zi5v cmc7IFBpZXJzIE8nSGFubG9uOyBTYW5ndGFlIEhhOyBJbmdlbWFyIEpvaGFuc3NvbiBTOyBFcmlj IER1bWF6ZXQ7IGVuZDJlbmQtaW50ZXJlc3RAcG9zdGVsLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFt0Y3Bt XSBbZTJlXSBUQ1AgSHlTdGFydCBwYXRjaCBkZXBsb3ltZW50DQoNCk9uIFRodSwgMjAxNS0wOS0w MyBhdCAxNToxOSAtMDQwMCwgTmVhbCBDYXJkd2VsbCB3cm90ZToNCj4gdHBzOi8vbHduLm5ldC9B cnRpY2xlcy81NjU0MjEvDQo+ID4NCj4gPiAgSXQgd2lsbCB0YWtlIGEgbGl0dGxlIHRvIHNldHVw IDQuMCwgbm9uZSBpbiBteSB0ZWFtIGhhcyBhbiANCj4gPiBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGggaXQgeWV0 LA0KPiANCj4gT0suIFdoYXQga2VybmVsIHZlcnNpb24gYXJlIHlvdSBydW5uaW5nPyBJIGd1ZXNz IHlvdSBjb3VsZCBqdXN0IHBhdGNoIA0KPiB5b3VyIGh5c3RhcnRfdXBkYXRlKCkgaW4gdGNwX2N1 YmljLmMgdG8gbG9vayBsaWtlIHY0LjAsIGRpc2FibGUgDQo+IEh5c3RhcnQgQUNLIHRyYWluIGRl dGVjdGlvbiwgYW5kIGVuYWJsZSBmcS4gVGhhdCBzaG91bGQgY2FwdHVyZSBtb3N0IA0KPiBvZiB3 aGF0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGludGVyZXN0aW5nLg0KPiANCg0KQUZBSUsgbm8ga2VybmVsIHBhdGNoL2J1 aWxkIGlzIGV2ZW4gcmVxdWlyZWQuDQoNCmVjaG8gMiA+L3N5cy9tb2R1bGUvdGNwX2N1YmljL3Bh cmFtZXRlcnMvaHlzdGFydF9kZXRlY3QNCg0KQW5kIHRoYXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGdvb2QgOykNCg0K Rm9yIHRoZSBmcSBwYWNpbmcgc3R1ZmYsIHlvdSBjb3VsZCB0cnkgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZywgZXZl biBpZiBpdCBpcyBub3QgJ3BlcmZlY3QnIGluIHRoZSBzZW5zZSB5b3Ugd29udCBoYXZlIG11bHRp cXVldWUgc3VwcG9ydCBpZiB5b3VyIE5JQyBpcyBjYXBhYmxlIG9mLg0KDQp0YyBxZGlzYyByZXBs YWNlIGRldiBldGgwIHJvb3QgZnENCg0KDQo= From nobody Thu Sep 3 14:28:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D0B1B2F25 for ; 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([2620:0:1000:3e02:50e1:bf5d:3c4:a905]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b7sm83762pbu.20.2015.09.03.14.28.01 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1441315681.8932.224.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> From: Eric Dumazet To: Veaceslav ROMAN Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 14:28:01 -0700 In-Reply-To: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E67852@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E67852@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4-0ubuntu2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 21:28:05 -0000 On Thu, 2015-09-03 at 21:22 +0000, Veaceslav ROMAN wrote: > Thank you, > Will follow your suggestions. > I also guess we'll better switch off GSO/TSO ? Unless you absolutely want bad performance, you should not. If it makes you feel better, know that Google never disabled TSO/GSO or GRO if that matters. From nobody Thu Sep 3 15:15:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108061B41C7 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:15:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSylcuXQGWy6 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F9D1B412E for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5004A3B2748; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 01:15:35 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246642-1; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:15:35 GMT Received: from XCHSRV03.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.63]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A123B26F6; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 01:15:35 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV03.main.orange.md ([fe80::6dbc:28dd:213b:8931%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 01:15:23 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Neal Cardwell Thread-Topic: [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgAAAuJsAABGVozQ///TRAD//6szwA== Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 22:15:22 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E678E8@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 22:15:29 -0000 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Lm5ldC9BcnRpY2xlcy81NjU0MjEvDQo+DQo+ICBJdCB3aWxsIHRha2UgYSBsaXR0bGUgdG8gc2V0 dXAgNC4wLCBub25lIGluIG15IHRlYW0gaGFzIGFuIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgDQo+IHdpdGggaXQgeWV0 LA0KDQpPSy4gV2hhdCBrZXJuZWwgdmVyc2lvbiBhcmUgeW91IHJ1bm5pbmc/IEkgZ3Vlc3MgeW91 IGNvdWxkIGp1c3QgcGF0Y2ggeW91ciBoeXN0YXJ0X3VwZGF0ZSgpIGluIHRjcF9jdWJpYy5jIHRv IGxvb2sgbGlrZSB2NC4wLCBkaXNhYmxlIEh5c3RhcnQgQUNLIHRyYWluIGRldGVjdGlvbiwgYW5k IGVuYWJsZSBmcS4gVGhhdCBzaG91bGQgY2FwdHVyZSBtb3N0IG9mIHdoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgaW50 ZXJlc3RpbmcuDQoNCm5lYWwNCg== From nobody Thu Sep 3 16:45:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846941B3828 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:45:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id axPNve2NkUvv for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22b.google.com (mail-ob0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88C3C1B381A for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbbh8 with SMTP id bh8so4454783obb.0 for ; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 16:45:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=kwH5j6jyN9uTTyhiWoI4fIg2mWeFH0uR3cjKvkUOSpE=; b=Ywe2vYX9AG5E52yQ5ZQ2OIFhYpoUEw5ABxhlVvuY0bbZFAI9UKpf7wdFtZH1BsXIzF 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X-Received: by 10.182.105.231 with SMTP id gp7mr433772obb.81.1441323914797; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 16:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.95.70 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:45:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 19:45:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: Neal Cardwell To: Eric Dumazet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 23:45:16 -0000 On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:14 PM, Eric Dumazet wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-03 at 15:19 -0400, Neal Cardwell wrote: >> tps://lwn.net/Articles/565421/ >> > >> > It will take a little to setup 4.0, none in my team has an experience with it yet, >> >> OK. What kernel version are you running? I guess you could just patch >> your hystart_update() in tcp_cubic.c to look like v4.0, disable >> Hystart ACK train detection, and enable fq. That should capture most >> of what would be interesting. >> > > AFAIK no kernel patch/build is even required. > > echo 2 >/sys/module/tcp_cubic/parameters/hystart_detect > > And that should be good ;) I was just suggesting that he copy the v4.0 hystart_update() in tcp_cubic.c to make sure he picked up your relatively recent change to Hystart, from v3.19: 42eef7a tcp_cubic: refine Hystart delay threshold since that was a significant change to the behavior of Hystart, to make it less sensitive to delays. neal From nobody Fri Sep 4 08:32:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A11B2DCD for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 08:32:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vAEwcy-tH3cW for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2E281A1B5C for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oiev17 with SMTP id v17so13902790oie.1 for ; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=v8q7BE9ganD58E3nW/WF/y5sirzfxtkl/16XDPnUGs8=; b=UOfcfGUGvmABu1nMXZZCSEEPy4LI2sA+FAr0uWo9VeK+2ia4I5Rds2Gr5bRWth08Wa ukWrALPQrYgyzqEt9jAsub+tBJfeSmMuAgI5S5g8dQWC4Uhkg7Bo0tm4g8FkyxRroHPR HbUfWgYBwzZ+cdxm1IUk6iKrd/VBoqGMMeEy8xXHotey1OMYu0TPqC+VVF0nw+NhQ66V 8Gm/v6UwFany2YpP3Vgpf5ae+VyCSxtRosqnVXyVV6P0W8hG5iaX/1lYwXN5JsNACxuf cPbA5IdF6pNKpolAnK+VQAfL1Tnc3xvryL/c+216tCWJwQwlBMjdbPozo2oZX/v/Wewg xibQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=v8q7BE9ganD58E3nW/WF/y5sirzfxtkl/16XDPnUGs8=; b=THlR9PDxvprQixdhRggBUdFwstvWZHIHGCwpWDQ7L5mgJCQ5RQgL8zHhGSSbExzlej OQv9gnrKKqnia7ewIE3dfFHWmxiVN4DEVvqxVL7fvuswObX1MPOGc2rClkrAomey0Y26 CpZdLlmi0EhwHMANuXYfftPOsyvUUAzZ1/ZmxWHp9wgbjX+R2YgBNRnVTq94Rema4171 m1Dwn9OXMzvovn6550yjTVFIJEz1FlCSCzHStL9WEmLNVJ3Dm2iirid49qBI/QliobRM 8arQc7KctLWoQ5GV6y41i1vbpyANb4G8LGJWNM5AwpnJ6UprD+xRhtltSrZIh2W2Em0X Oi/A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnQaIAF2MCr+IRZsIzaeykGhnP0ujHUrv8uwLuWXMral5u72ClTmnnUuWUcdZ4ZP4Ne3LgH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.3.10 with SMTP id 10mr3708257oid.127.1441380727267; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.95.70 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:32:07 -0400 Message-ID: From: Neal Cardwell To: Eric Dumazet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 15:32:12 -0000 Hi Veaceslav, I agree that in your LTE traces it looks like CUBIC Hystart is exiting slow start too early. SInce you seem to have a nice LTE testbed, would you be able to do some experiments to find a set of parameters for Hystart that work better for your LTE environment? For example, you might try the two variations I suggested earlier in the thread: if (ca->curr_rtt > ca->delay_min + HYSTART_DELAY_THRESH(ca->delay_min >> 2)) { or if (ca->curr_rtt > ca->delay_min + HYSTART_DELAY_THRESH(ca->delay_min >> 1)) { Do any of those give better results for your tests? neal From nobody Fri Sep 4 09:48:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6C51B42BB for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:48:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YsTFax-tOQbE for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22f.google.com (mail-pa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B01501B4214 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pacwi10 with SMTP id wi10so29200058pac.3 for ; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :content-type:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EOl9qBhmJHYCPJhum1AeH+g47Wbg3IKU8zBrnHKoSRY=; b=CVobcjICsuEq+UrGIK5GZIOkHTouryvtSpmrLd7yKCzJ0Y7HpoQYPRYB77I6wY2Vla Tp/LlXMLTta13Vx9x7G5Zgp7lXLb5bKP3Nk4GWrlZ4n7DmYIE818I3aKgPECklHWxPJO PzYHqZwDzP6InfTETmyfjBjBkqEU2swImk8PO2eArD9E8zPR5u7k+Q3H6VuvOvRCd8K6 oFomLHdaO1K2W2+B6Nyz0JJwC9GfyXeSl44qV+ZiIHxOzvdpWhxrX66dP68v+ogvX8D3 mULzBonRBAIjnF0vNFF6kETd6yS9WzH9deZjhKwNjJ0fXFjns2IXcGp7tFAyD8t7860g R1kw== X-Received: by 10.68.203.66 with SMTP id ko2mr9997328pbc.81.1441385305254; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:0:1000:3e02:50e1:bf5d:3c4:a905? ([2620:0:1000:3e02:50e1:bf5d:3c4:a905]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ok4sm3073572pbb.65.2015.09.04.09.48.17 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1441385297.17208.6.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> From: Eric Dumazet To: Neal Cardwell Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:48:17 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4-0ubuntu2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:48:27 -0000 On Fri, 2015-09-04 at 11:32 -0400, Neal Cardwell wrote: > Hi Veaceslav, > > I agree that in your LTE traces it looks like CUBIC Hystart is exiting > slow start too early. > > SInce you seem to have a nice LTE testbed, would you be able to do > some experiments to find a set of parameters for Hystart that work > better for your LTE environment? For example, you might try the two > variations I suggested earlier in the thread: > > if (ca->curr_rtt > ca->delay_min + > HYSTART_DELAY_THRESH(ca->delay_min >> 2)) { > or > if (ca->curr_rtt > ca->delay_min + > HYSTART_DELAY_THRESH(ca->delay_min >> 1)) { > > Do any of those give better results for your tests? > > neal Also, hystart is fooled by too many ACK received in short period. This problem would be solved if GRO was used at receiver, as less ACK would be sent. Presumably receiver is not a linux TCP stack ? Maybe we should add a logic in hystart_update() to take one ACK per ms. 05:32:24.134172 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [S], seq 4294423215, win 65535, options [mss 1460,sackOK,TS val 1112351 ecr 0,nop,wscale 8], length 0 05:32:24.161986 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [S.], seq 1198877721, ack 4294423216, win 28960, options [mss 1416,sackOK,TS val 2808808634 ecr 1112351,nop,wscale 7], length 0 05:32:24.162108 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 1, win 343, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112354 ecr 2808808634], length 0 05:32:24.163072 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [P.], seq 1:658, ack 1, win 343, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112354 ecr 2808808634], length 657 05:32:24.203984 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808675 ecr 1112354], length 0 05:32:24.210275 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [P.], seq 1:387, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 386 05:32:24.210315 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 387:1791, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210332 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 1791:3195, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210347 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 3195:4599, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210350 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 387, win 347, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.210361 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 4599:6003, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210374 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 6003:7407, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210389 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 7407:8811, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210402 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 8811:10215, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210416 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 10215:11619, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210418 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 1791, win 358, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.210431 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 11619:13023, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808677 ecr 1112354], length 1404 05:32:24.210455 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 3195, win 369, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.210685 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 4599, win 380, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.210731 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 6003, win 391, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.210937 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 7407, win 402, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.211078 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 8811, win 413, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.211228 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 10215, win 424, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.211377 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 11619, win 435, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.211544 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 13023, win 446, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112359 ecr 2808808677], length 0 05:32:24.237999 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 13023:14427, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808709 ecr 1112359], length 1404 05:32:24.238053 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 14427:15831, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808709 ecr 1112359], length 1404 05:32:24.238090 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 14427, win 457, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112362 ecr 2808808709], length 0 05:32:24.238164 IP 94.243.104.156.32924 > 195.95.178.204.80: Flags [.], ack 15831, win 468, options [nop,nop,TS val 1112362 ecr 2808808709], length 0 05:32:24.244024 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 15831:17235, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808713 ecr 1112359], length 1404 05:32:24.244063 IP 195.95.178.204.80 > 94.243.104.156.32924: Flags [.], seq 17235:18639, ack 658, win 237, options [nop,nop,TS val 2808808713 ecr 1112359], length 1404 From nobody Fri Sep 4 09:59:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654111A1A16 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J5kFMWrrBXKT for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AAB1A1B8E for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EAA3B27A6; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:59:07 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246836-1; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:59:07 GMT Received: from XCHSRV03.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.63]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A5F3B2729; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:59:07 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV03.main.orange.md ([fe80::6dbc:28dd:213b:8931%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:58:55 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Neal Cardwell , Eric Dumazet Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgAAAuJsAABGVozQ///TRACAAB/3AIAAKj8AgAEIjoD//7pfgA== Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:58:54 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E68E46@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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([2620:0:1000:3e02:50e1:bf5d:3c4:a905]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id cs6sm3277180pdb.40.2015.09.04.11.21.52 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1441390912.17208.12.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> From: Eric Dumazet To: Neal Cardwell Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:21:52 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1441385297.17208.6.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <1441385297.17208.6.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4-0ubuntu2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 18:21:56 -0000 On Fri, 2015-09-04 at 09:48 -0700, Eric Dumazet wrote: > Also, hystart is fooled by too many ACK received in short period. > > This problem would be solved if GRO was used at receiver, as less ACK > would be sent. > > Presumably receiver is not a linux TCP stack ? > > Maybe we should add a logic in hystart_update() to take one ACK per ms. BTW, the server has following SNMP stats : $ nstat -a | egrep "Hystart|PassiveOpens" TcpPassiveOpens 308476294 0.0 TcpExtTCPHystartDelayDetect 31204296 0.0 TcpExtTCPHystartDelayCwnd 5549344673 0.0 Meaning that Hystart delay detection exits slow start for ~10% of flows, with an average cwnd = 177.84 From nobody Fri Sep 4 15:09:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2E01B324B for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:09:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aMuPk6I8Uifc for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5EF1B3241 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (antispam.orange.md [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0533B26FD; Sat, 5 Sep 2015 01:09:50 +0300 (EEST) Received: from antispam.orange.md by antispam.orange.md with queue id 246842-1; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 22:09:50 GMT Received: from XCHSRV04.main.orange.md (unknown [192.168.200.64]) by mailfilter.orange.md (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4508D3B24C0; Sat, 5 Sep 2015 01:09:50 +0300 (EEST) Received: from XCHSRV01.main.orange.md ([fe80::685f:aef6:93b0:dea7]) by XCHSRV04.main.orange.md ([fe80::bdbd:3bcd:a0d2:9b6%14]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sat, 5 Sep 2015 01:09:37 +0300 From: Veaceslav ROMAN To: Eric Dumazet , Neal Cardwell Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgAAAuJsAABGVozQ///TRACAAB/3AIAAKj8AgAEIjoCAABVIgP//hZhA Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 22:09:35 +0000 Message-ID: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E69237@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <1441385297.17208.6.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> In-Reply-To: <1441385297.17208.6.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Accept-Language: en-US, ro-RO Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.107.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" , Piers O'Hanlon , Sangtae Ha , Ingemar Johansson S , Eric Dumazet , "end2end-interest@postel.org" Subject: Re: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 22:09:43 -0000 SWYgd2UgbG9vayBhdCB0aGUgZmlyc3QgdHJhaW46IGFsbCBwYWNrZXRzIHJlY2VpdmVkIGluIGxl c3MgdGhhbiAxIG1zLiBQcm9iYWJseSB0aGlzIGlzIG9ubHkgYW4gYXBwZWFyYW5jZSBhcyBMVEUg dHJhbnNtaXRzIGluLCBzbyBjYWxsZWQgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIHRpbWUgaW50ZXJ2YWwgKFRUSSkg b2YgMSBtcywgYW5kIHdoYXQgd2Ugc2VlIGhlcmUgaXMgdGhhdCBhbGwgMTAgcGFja2V0cyBvZiBp bml0aWFsIHdpbmRvdyBmaXR0ZWQgaW4gMSBtcywgYW5kLCB3aGVuIGRlY29kZWQsIHdlcmUgcHJl c2VudGVkIHRvIHRoZSBUQ1AvSVAgbGF5ZXIgKGFuZCBwY2FwKSBhbGwgYXQgb25jZS4gQlRXLCA4 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b3AsVFMgdmFsIDExMTIzNjIgZWNyIDI4MDg4MDg3MDldLCBsZW5ndGggMA0KMDU6MzI6MjQuMjQ0 MDI0IElQIDE5NS45NS4xNzguMjA0LjgwID4gOTQuMjQzLjEwNC4xNTYuMzI5MjQ6IEZsYWdzIFsu XSwgc2VxIDE1ODMxOjE3MjM1LCBhY2sgNjU4LCB3aW4gMjM3LCBvcHRpb25zIFtub3Asbm9wLFRT IHZhbCAyODA4ODA4NzEzIGVjciAxMTEyMzU5XSwgbGVuZ3RoIDE0MDQNCjA1OjMyOjI0LjI0NDA2 MyBJUCAxOTUuOTUuMTc4LjIwNC44MCA+IDk0LjI0My4xMDQuMTU2LjMyOTI0OiBGbGFncyBbLl0s IHNlcSAxNzIzNToxODYzOSwgYWNrIDY1OCwgd2luIDIzNywgb3B0aW9ucyBbbm9wLG5vcCxUUyB2 YWwgMjgwODgwODcxMyBlY3IgMTExMjM1OV0sIGxlbmd0aCAxNDA0DQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Sep 9 08:52:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C32C1B356C for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ufC_5HRBfPfb for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 08:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DD851AD0A9 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 08:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBF8D9317; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:52:23 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Un6TNhkHz2rq; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:52:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.103.143] (nb-10510.ethz.ch [82.130.103.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFC97D9316; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:52:22 +0200 (MEST) References: <20150906231947.7501.54950.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= To: "tcpm@ietf.org Extensions" , Bob Briscoe , Richard Scheffenegger X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20150906231947.7501.54950.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <55F055AD.3050809@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:52:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20150906231947.7501.54950.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [tcpm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 15:52:29 -0000 Hi all, we submitted a new draft for AccECN (see below). We significantly simplified the draft because we believe it is more important to have a solution that is easy to understand and therefore more easy to correctly implement, than having a solution that tries to fulfill all requirements but is overly complex. In short, we now only overwrite the 3 TCP header bits (no additional bits in the TCP header are used) and use them simply for a CE packet counter, while bytes-wise information on all other markings is provided by a new TCP option. In case the option is not available, e.g. because it's blocked, this will still provide the needed information to react to a CE-based congestion feedback. However, any advanced mechanism that needs further information on the other markings received will only work if the option is available. Further, we also tried to keep the draft as short as possible. That means the actual normative part only has 9 pages. However, we still provide an overview section with some reasoning as well as some discussion on interaction with other mechanisms which leads in total to 25 pages (without appendix). I'm currently also working on an implementation of this proposed solution. I will announce it as soon as I'm ready! In any case we would like to discuss this at the next meeting. We, the author, think that this proposal is now the right way forward and hope that this simplified proposal will allows us to quickly proceed on AccECN as the need for it is increasing. Please let us know if you have any feedback on the draft! Mirja -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:19:47 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Richard Scheffenegger , "Mirja Kühlewind" , Mirja Kuehlewind , Richard Scheffenegger , Bob Briscoe , Bob Briscoe A new version of I-D, draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt has been successfully submitted by Bob Briscoe and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn Revision: 04 Title: More Accurate ECN Feedback in TCP Document date: 2015-09-06 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 36 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04 Abstract: Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) is a mechanism where network nodes can mark IP packets instead of dropping them to indicate incipient congestion to the end-points. Receivers with an ECN- capable transport protocol feed back this information to the sender. ECN is specified for TCP in such a way that only one feedback signal can be transmitted per Round-Trip Time (RTT). Recently, new TCP mechanisms like Congestion Exposure (ConEx) or Data Center TCP (DCTCP) need more accurate ECN feedback information whenever more than one marking is received in one RTT. This document specifies an experimental scheme to provide more than one feedback signal per RTT in the TCP header. Given TCP header space is scarce, it overloads the three existing ECN-related flags in the TCP header and provides additional information in a new TCP option. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Sun Sep 20 14:46:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3461A8A91; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XYPbzFEq_iYL; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.dnsblock1.com (server.dnsblock1.com [85.13.236.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C2E31A8A90; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 81.126.199.146.dyn.plus.net ([146.199.126.81]:39993 helo=[192.168.0.16]) by server.dnsblock1.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZdmQj-0002uR-8c; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:45:53 +0100 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= , tcpPrague@ietf.org References: <55F055AD.3050809@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <55F05D54.5060708@tik.ee.ethz.ch> From: Bob Briscoe Message-ID: <55FF2910.7080908@bobbriscoe.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:45:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55F05D54.5060708@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060409080403030306010705" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server.dnsblock1.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bobbriscoe.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server.dnsblock1.com: authenticated_id: in@bobbriscoe.net Archived-At: Cc: tcpm IETF list , Richard Scheffenegger Subject: Re: [tcpm] Fwd: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:45:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060409080403030306010705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tcpPrague list and Mirja, For those of you who don't follow the IETF so closely, the reason for not using DCTCP's original feedback scheme was because it was not designed to cope with ACK loss. This is explained in the requirements for more accurate ECN feedback that were recently agreed and published as RFC 7560 . The appendix in that RFC gives some examples where the original DCTCP would get highly confused by a few ACK losses. In that RFC it was admitted that no-one expected that all the requirements could be satisfied at once. * The previous version satisfied them all except 'simple', but there was push-back on that. * So this time > has gone for simple, but compromised a bit on 'low to zero overhead'. As Mirja said, pls read it and tell the IETF tcpm list (in cc) whether you support this new approach, and if not, why not. The IETF doesn't charter work if no-one is talking about it. Cheers Bob On 09/09/15 17:24, Mirja Kühlewind wrote: > Hi all, > > find below the mail that I've just sent to the tcpm list. You might > have seen this already but I ed explicitly point this out to the > tcpprague list as we partly discussed this activity already at the > meeting in Prague. > > In short AccECN can be used with DCTCP or any other (DCTCP-like) > scheme that needs more accurate information on how many ECN markings > have been received. If that's interesting for you, please read the > draft and provide feedback. Please make sure that you also cc the tcpm > list regarding all feedback that is directly on AccECN and the draft! > > If you would like to discuss future usage of AccECN, this can happen > on this list only, or you may cc tcpm if e.g. your use case would > require changes to AccECN as currently proposed. > > Thanks! > Mirja > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: [tcpm] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:52:13 +0200 > From: Mirja Kühlewind > To: tcpm@ietf.org Extensions , Bob Briscoe > , Richard Scheffenegger > > Hi all, > > we submitted a new draft for AccECN (see below). We significantly > simplified the > draft because we believe it is more important to have a solution that > is easy to > understand and therefore more easy to correctly implement, than having a > solution that tries to fulfill all requirements but is overly complex. > > In short, we now only overwrite the 3 TCP header bits (no additional > bits in the > TCP header are used) and use them simply for a CE packet counter, while > bytes-wise information on all other markings is provided by a new TCP > option. In > case the option is not available, e.g. because it's blocked, this will > still > provide the needed information to react to a CE-based congestion > feedback. > However, any advanced mechanism that needs further information on the > other > markings received will only work if the option is available. > > Further, we also tried to keep the draft as short as possible. That > means the > actual normative part only has 9 pages. However, we still provide an > overview > section with some reasoning as well as some discussion on interaction > with other > mechanisms which leads in total to 25 pages (without appendix). > > I'm currently also working on an implementation of this proposed > solution. I > will announce it as soon as I'm ready! > > In any case we would like to discuss this at the next meeting. We, the > author, > think that this proposal is now the right way forward and hope that this > simplified proposal will allows us to quickly proceed on AccECN as the > need for > it is increasing. > > Please let us know if you have any feedback on the draft! > > Mirja > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt > Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:19:47 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Richard Scheffenegger , "Mirja Kühlewind" > , Mirja Kuehlewind > , Richard Scheffenegger > , Bob > Briscoe , Bob Briscoe > > > A new version of I-D, draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Bob Briscoe and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn > Revision: 04 > Title: More Accurate ECN Feedback in TCP > Document date: 2015-09-06 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 36 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn/ > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04 > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04 > > Abstract: > Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) is a mechanism where network > nodes can mark IP packets instead of dropping them to indicate > incipient congestion to the end-points. Receivers with an ECN- > capable transport protocol feed back this information to the sender. > ECN is specified for TCP in such a way that only one feedback signal > can be transmitted per Round-Trip Time (RTT). Recently, new TCP > mechanisms like Congestion Exposure (ConEx) or Data Center TCP > (DCTCP) need more accurate ECN feedback information whenever more > than one marking is received in one RTT. This document specifies an > experimental scheme to provide more than one feedback signal per RTT > in the TCP header. Given TCP header space is scarce, it overloads > the three existing ECN-related flags in the TCP header and provides > additional information in a new TCP option. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm > > -- ________________________________________________________________ Bob Briscoe http://bobbriscoe.net/ --------------060409080403030306010705 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tcpPrague list and Mirja,

For those of you who don't follow the IETF so closely, the reason for not using DCTCP's original feedback scheme was because it was not designed to cope with ACK loss.

This is explained in the requirements for more accurate ECN feedback that were recently agreed and published as RFC 7560 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7560>. The appendix in that RFC gives some examples where the original DCTCP would get highly confused by a few ACK losses.

In that RFC it was admitted that no-one expected that all the requirements could be satisfied at once.
* The previous version <draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-03> satisfied them all except 'simple', but there was push-back on that.
* So this time <draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04> has gone for simple, but compromised a bit on 'low to zero overhead'.

As Mirja said, pls read it and tell the IETF tcpm list (in cc) whether you support this new approach, and if not, why not.
The IETF doesn't charter work if no-one is talking about it.

Cheers


Bob

On 09/09/15 17:24, Mirja Kühlewind wrote:
Hi all,

find below the mail that I've just sent to the tcpm list. You might have seen this already but I ed explicitly point this out to the tcpprague list as we partly discussed this activity already at the meeting in Prague.

In short AccECN can be used with DCTCP or any other (DCTCP-like) scheme that needs more accurate information on how many ECN markings have been received. If that's interesting for you, please read the draft and provide feedback. Please make sure that you also cc the tcpm list regarding all feedback that is directly on AccECN and the draft!

If you would like to discuss future usage of AccECN, this can happen on this list only, or you may cc tcpm if e.g. your use case would require changes to AccECN as currently proposed.

Thanks!
Mirja


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [tcpm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:52:13 +0200
From: Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
To: tcpm@ietf.org Extensions <tcpm@ietf.org>, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>, Richard Scheffenegger <rscheff@gmx.at>

Hi all,

we submitted a new draft for AccECN (see below). We significantly simplified the
draft because we believe it is more important to have a solution that is easy to
understand and therefore more easy to correctly implement, than having a
solution that tries to fulfill all requirements but is overly complex.

In short, we now only overwrite the 3 TCP header bits (no additional bits in the
TCP header are used) and use them simply for a CE packet counter, while
bytes-wise information on all other markings is provided by a new TCP option. In
case the option is not available, e.g. because it's blocked, this will still
provide the needed information to react to a CE-based congestion feedback.
However, any advanced mechanism that needs further information on the other
markings received will only work if the option is available.

Further, we also tried to keep the draft as short as possible. That means the
actual normative part only has 9 pages. However, we still provide an overview
section with some reasoning as well as some discussion on interaction with other
mechanisms which leads in total to 25 pages (without appendix).

I'm currently also working on an implementation of this proposed solution. I
will announce it as soon as I'm ready!

In any case we would like to discuss this at the next meeting. We, the author,
think that this proposal is now the right way forward and hope that this
simplified proposal will allows us to quickly proceed on AccECN as the need for
it is increasing.

Please let us know if you have any feedback on the draft!

Mirja


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:19:47 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Richard Scheffenegger <rs@netapp.com>, "Mirja Kühlewind"
<mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, Mirja Kuehlewind
<mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, Richard Scheffenegger <rs@netapp.com>, Bob
Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>


A new version of I-D, draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt
has been successfully submitted by Bob Briscoe and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn
Revision:    04
Title:        More Accurate ECN Feedback in TCP
Document date:    2015-09-06
Group:        Individual Submission
Pages:        36
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04

Abstract:
    Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) is a mechanism where network
    nodes can mark IP packets instead of dropping them to indicate
    incipient congestion to the end-points.  Receivers with an ECN-
    capable transport protocol feed back this information to the sender.
    ECN is specified for TCP in such a way that only one feedback signal
    can be transmitted per Round-Trip Time (RTT).  Recently, new TCP
    mechanisms like Congestion Exposure (ConEx) or Data Center TCP
    (DCTCP) need more accurate ECN feedback information whenever more
    than one marking is received in one RTT.  This document specifies an
    experimental scheme to provide more than one feedback signal per RTT
    in the TCP header.  Given TCP header space is scarce, it overloads
    the three existing ECN-related flags in the TCP header and provides
    additional information in a new TCP option.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


_______________________________________________
tcpm mailing list
tcpm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm 



-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/
--------------060409080403030306010705-- From nobody Mon Sep 21 09:07:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE5C1A90DC for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:07:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5plfLrOzB6jO for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4021A90CA for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:07:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150921160725.12769.5899.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:07:25 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [tcpm] Milestones changed for tcpm WG X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:07:27 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit document on Datacenter TCP (DCTCP) to the IESG for publication as Informational RFC", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/tcpm/charter/ From nobody Mon Sep 21 10:41:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570F71ACDD4 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:41:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1JKFz3bWURYr for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64F761ACDCF for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id C8F1B2FA78A13 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:40:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t8LHevjE018628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:40:57 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.114]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:40:57 +0200 From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" To: "tcpm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG acceptance of draft-bensley-tcpm-dctcp Thread-Index: AdDGBXHBGm9udrRFSKiDGmxBaNoikwujhk3g Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:40:56 +0000 Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484C9302@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D48439C5D@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D48439C5D@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] WG acceptance of draft-bensley-tcpm-dctcp X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 17:41:01 -0000 Folks, This e-mail confirms the WG acceptance of this draft. I have set the milest= one deadline in the charter to Dec. 2015, as requested by the community. Authors, please resubmit the document as draft-ietf-tcpm-dctcp. Please chan= ge the title to "Datacenter TCP (DCTCP): TCP Congestion Control for Datacen= ters".=20 Thanks Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scharf, Michael > (Michael) > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 1:40 PM > To: tcpm@ietf.org > Subject: [tcpm] WG acceptance of draft-bensley-tcpm-dctcp >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > In the meeting on Wednesday, we had unanimous support for accepting > draft-bensley-tcpm-dctcp as new informational document in TCPM, and we > had strong consensus that the document should have the title > "Datacenter TCP (DCTCP): TCP Congestion Control for Datacenters". The > scope is to accurately document the protocol that has been implemented > and deployed. >=20 > This e-mail intends to confirm that it is consensus in the TCPM > community to work on this document and to add a corresponding new > milestone to the TCPM charter. My suggestion for the charter milestone > would be: >=20 > Apr 2016 Submit document on Datacenter TCP (DCTCP) to the IESG for > publication as Informational RFC >=20 > If you have any feedback or suggestions, please speak up in the next > two weeks. >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Michael >=20 > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm From nobody Mon Sep 21 11:18:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3054A1ACDEE; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:18:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GuzEW3ZADOIX; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41411B30BF; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:18:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150921181819.14030.80326.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:18:19 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: tcpm@ietf.org Subject: [tcpm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 18:18:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Transmission Control Protocol Specification Author : Wesley M. Eddy Filename : draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01.txt Pages : 86 Date : 2015-09-21 Abstract: This document specifies the Internet's Transmission Control Protocol (TCP). TCP is an important transport layer protocol in the Internet stack, and has continuously evolved over decades of use and growth of the Internet. Over this time, a number of changes have been made to TCP as it was specified in RFC 793, though these have only been documented in a piecemeal fashion. This document collects and brings those changes together with the protocol specification from RFC 793. This document obsoletes RFC 793 and several other RFCs (TODO: list all actual RFCs when finished). RFC EDITOR NOTE: If approved for publication as an RFC, this should be marked additionally as "STD: 7" and replace RFC 793 in that role. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Sep 21 11:35:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3851B3413 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HXSscBj0ZVbt for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com (atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com [209.17.115.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9575B1B3411 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.208]) by atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t8LIZssx007438 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:35:54 -0400 Received: (qmail 13145 invoked by uid 0); 21 Sep 2015 18:35:53 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 24.166.126.82 X-Authenticated-UID: wes@mti-systems.com Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.148?) (wes@mti-systems.com@24.166.126.82) by 0 with ESMTPA; 21 Sep 2015 18:35:53 -0000 To: "tcpm@ietf.org" References: <20150921181819.14030.80326.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Wesley Eddy X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Organization: MTI Systems Message-ID: <56004E08.4060207@mti-systems.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:35:52 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20150921181819.14030.80326.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 18:35:57 -0000 To explain what's in this update ... it's mainly brought in some sections of RFC 1122 (with the ones left to go now specifically listed also in section 4). A question came up while working on RFC 1122 material, that it will be good to get explicit WG input on. There is a section of 1122 (4.2.3.12) on "Efficiency" that's basically implementation advice, and not strictly protocol interoperability text. I think this also applies to 4.2.3.11 (TCP Traffic Patterns). What are people's thoughts on this, and whether or not this kind of material belongs in 793bis? I was thinking a (short) section might be appropriate with collected pointers to implementation advice that's in the RFC series (i.e. these sections, RFC 2525, etc). Alternatively, we might just say up-front in the document that the TCP Roadmap is a place to go to find such references. Does anyone have strong feelings about this, or have other ideas? On 9/21/2015 2:18 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Transmission Control Protocol Specification > Author : Wesley M. Eddy > Filename : draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01.txt > Pages : 86 > Date : 2015-09-21 > > ... > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-01 -- Wes Eddy MTI Systems From nobody Tue Sep 22 00:59:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B1E61A01CB; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 00:59:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9kQDLg6R2EF; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 00:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0BD1A01D6; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 00:59:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150922075939.25385.97529.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 00:59:39 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: tcpm@ietf.org Subject: [tcpm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tcpm-dctcp-00.txt X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 07:59:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Datacenter TCP (DCTCP): TCP Congestion Control for Datacenters Authors : Stephen Bensley Lars Eggert Dave Thaler Praveen Balasubramanian Glenn Judd Filename : draft-ietf-tcpm-dctcp-00.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2015-09-22 Abstract: This memo describes Datacenter TCP (DCTCP), an improvement to TCP congestion control for datacenter traffic. DCTCP uses improved Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) processing to estimate the fraction of bytes that encounter congestion, rather than simply detecting that some congestion has occurred. DCTCP then scales the TCP congestion window based on this estimate. This method achieves high burst tolerance, low latency, and high throughput with shallow- buffered switches. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-dctcp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-dctcp-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Sep 22 04:48:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1704E1A6EE9 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 04:48:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Lpgik_QGZbV for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 04:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out5.uio.no (mail-out5.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7AE41A21C3 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 04:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-mx1.uio.no ([129.240.10.29]) by mail-out5.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ZeM3b-0003AO-Ew for tcpm@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:48:23 +0200 Received: from boomerang.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.135]) by mail-mx1.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZeM3Z-0005fO-UA for tcpm@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:48:22 +0200 From: Michael Welzl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:48:21 +0200 References: <20709AAC-7CED-4474-B282-8C7F1A26FF2A@ifi.uio.no> To: tcpm@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 8 msgs/h 4 sum rcpts/h 15 sum msgs/h 5 total rcpts 33436 max rcpts/h 54 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-6.1, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.051, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 17438717D99AD8AA356250695D505D212BBEFBA3 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.68.135 spam_score: -60 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 4 total 7980 max/h 17 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: Subject: [tcpm] Fwd: [iccrg] Review of draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-01.txt X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:48:28 -0000 TCPM, FYI, because TCPM is the eventual target and the draft has now been = updated to incorporate the comments that we received. Please discuss this draft on the ICCRG list. Cheers, Michael > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: Michael Welzl > Subject: [iccrg] Review of draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-01.txt > Date: 22 Sep 2015 13:34:50 CEST > To: iccrg@irtf.org > Resent-From: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > The proposal "TCP Alternative Backoff with ECN" (ABE) was presented to = TCPM at the last IETF. Some comments were given there, and on the TCPM = mailing list before the meeting ( see: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dtcpm&qdr=3Dy&q=3DTC= P+Alternative+Backoff+with+ECN ). > The meeting concluded with this statement by a chair: >=20 > *** > Michael S: seems like a perfect topic for ICCRG. Can be discussed > there, clarify Mark Allman's proposal of binding beta to a loss > multiplication factor, see if it is applicable to more congestion > controls than just Reno. Coming up with a beta factor is in ICCRG's > scope. > *** >=20 > =3D> now we're doing this evaluation on behalf of TCPM. As you can see = below, the draft has just been updated. As usual for such evaluations, I = also created a Wiki page for it: > http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/ICCRG_abe >=20 > where you can, for now, find the draft, slides & minutes from Prague, = and the technical report: > http://caia.swin.edu.au/reports/150710A/CAIA-TR-150710A.pdf >=20 > This is a short draft, so please consider reading it and offer your = comments on the ICCRG mailing list. Thanks!! >=20 > Cheers, > Michael >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Begin forwarded message: >>=20 >> From: >> Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-01.txt >> Date: 22 Sep 2015 13:08:45 CEST >> To: Michael Welzl , Grenville Armitage = , Michael Welzl , Gorry = Fairhurst , Naeem Khademi , = Godred Fairhurst , Grenville Armitage = , "Naeem Khademi" >> Resent-From: >>=20 >>=20 >> A new version of I-D, draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Michael Welzl and posted to the >> IETF repository. >>=20 >> Name: draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn >> Revision: 01 >> Title: TCP Alternative Backoff with ECN (ABE) >> Document date: 2015-09-21 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 10 >> URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-= 01.txt >> Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn/ >> Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-01 >> Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-khademi-alternativebackoff-ecn-0= 1 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> This memo provides an experimental update to RFC3168. It updates = the >> TCP sender-side reaction to a congestion notification received via >> Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN). ECN-marking can allow a >> network device to signal congestion at a point before a transport >> experiences congestion loss or additional queueing delay. The >> updated method is less conservative than the TCP reaction in = response >> to loss. The intention is to achieve good throughput when the queue >> at the bottleneck is smaller than the bandwidth-delay-product of the >> connection. This is more likely when an Active Queue Management >> (AQM) mechanism has used ECN to CE-mark a packet, than when a packet >> was lost. Future versions of this document will discuss SCTP as = well >> as other transports using ECN. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> The IETF Secretariat >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > iccrg mailing list > iccrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/iccrg From nobody Tue Sep 22 08:58:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931C31B2AFF for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:58:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 506rqu8D5rhK for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73651B2B04 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150922155831.24623.37198.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:58:31 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [tcpm] Milestones changed for tcpm WG X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:58:33 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit document on Datacenter TCP (DCTCP) to the IESG for publication as Informational RFC", added draft-ietf-tcpm-dctcp to milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/tcpm/charter/ From nobody Thu Sep 24 08:58:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5497E1A6F1F; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:58:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5eXeGYGjtcmF; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36CBD1A6EE9; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.4.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20150924155810.5102.25717.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:58:10 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: tcpm@ietf.org Subject: [tcpm] Last Call: (TCP and SCTP RTO Restart) to Experimental RFC X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 15:58:11 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions WG (tcpm) to consider the following document: - 'TCP and SCTP RTO Restart' as Experimental RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2015-10-08. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document describes a modified sender-side algorithm for managing the TCP and SCTP retransmission timers that provides faster loss recovery when there is a small amount of outstanding data for a connection. The modification, RTO Restart (RTOR), allows the transport to restart its retransmission timer so that the effective RTO becomes more aggressive in situations where fast retransmit cannot be used. This enables faster loss detection and recovery for connections that are short-lived or application-limited. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-rtorestart/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-rtorestart/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From lwigley@cisco.com Fri Sep 25 08:41:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A4C21A8869 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2015 08:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ttwdgD3rHFT for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2015 08:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AD0D1A886D for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2015 08:41:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3271; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1443195691; x=1444405291; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=WAcNRhWR/6LMBrm2blAXR741wH6QruY68TgJeGpsR4Q=; b=bvnvWSqsBAeMBOPTx83cfy1Yw/Hb59H4POub+iW+3XvwFY+JAfVdGFxJ Npn4+r/xkpKnMEECup99AlMZw/RXBw49S3PfbEdttvEE6ky6SCe74hgT2 lZJQYWwpI5OlombKsI9rr8Zv4lk5UUIXGoldUNCoC9TA5WjaA+UguWZmo c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AOBQCwagVW/5NdJa1dgldNVG+9OIkhORMBAQEBAQEBfwuEKy1eAQx0JgEEG4gmqA+kCwEBAQEGAQEBAQEBHIZzjj0FlWcBjQabLQEjAj6EAYlYgQUBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,587,1437436800"; d="scan'208,217";a="191569274" Received: from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2015 15:41:30 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (xch-rcd-007.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t8PFfUYu019825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:41:30 GMT Received: from xch-aln-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:41:29 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-009.cisco.com ([173.36.7.19]) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com ([173.36.7.19]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Fri, 25 Sep 2015 10:41:29 -0500 From: "Lane Wigley (lwigley)" To: "tcpm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TCP evolution impact on router buffers Thread-Index: AdD3qDJMG7WkdcJDTiy1iIy/H6510w== Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:41:29 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.150.25.244] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a84b1ecd287c4e19a5a28c6c27a7728cXCHALN009ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:44:23 -0000 --_000_a84b1ecd287c4e19a5a28c6c27a7728cXCHALN009ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying to track down some research or opinions on how the more recent T= CP schemes impact router buffer needs. There are a number of publications f= rom Stanford and Georgia Tech from about 10 years ago, and I'm trying to as= sess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initial con= gestion window) deployed since then may influence those findings in the dir= ection of more or less buffering being needed. I'd appreciate any input and pointers. Thanks. - Lane --_000_a84b1ecd287c4e19a5a28c6c27a7728cXCHALN009ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’m trying to track down some research or opin= ions on how the more recent TCP schemes impact router buffer needs. There a= re a number of publications from Stanford and Georgia Tech from about 10 ye= ars ago, and I’m trying to assess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initial congestion window) = deployed since then may influence those findings in the direction of more o= r less buffering being needed.

 

I’d appreciate any input and pointers. Thanks.=

 

- Lane

 

 

--_000_a84b1ecd287c4e19a5a28c6c27a7728cXCHALN009ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Sep 28 06:28:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272E11A90B7 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:28:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uSd4xmV2e6qT for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta-us-west-01.viasat.com (mta-us-west-01.viasat.com [8.37.96.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4D701A90B6 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (VCASPAM01.hq.corp.viasat.com [127.0.0.1]) by VCASPAM01.hq.corp.viasat.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t8SDPjte013413 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:28:15 GMT From: "Agarwal, Anil" To: tcpm IETF list Thread-Topic: [tcpm] Fwd: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQ0SYVrjaH0hPI70WyxrijyeZQe54SCG5NgEAm6FA= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:28:13 +0000 Message-ID: <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38246@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> References: <55C4C4CB.9080302@bobbriscoe.net> <55C4CEEF.1040504@bobbriscoe.net> <338a11745e05dd944c66be76fb925e97@mail.gmail.com> <55D36138.5060106@bobbriscoe.net> In-Reply-To: <55D36138.5060106@bobbriscoe.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38246wdc1exchmbxp01h_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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oxIRP3tNujtr for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta-us-west-01.viasat.com (mta-us-west-01.viasat.com [8.37.96.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 465501A9097 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (VCASPAM01.hq.corp.viasat.com [127.0.0.1]) by VCASPAM01.hq.corp.viasat.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t8SDWDQh024754 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:35:04 GMT From: "Agarwal, Anil" To: tcpm IETF list Thread-Topic: CUBIC Bug fix Thread-Index: AdD58lf/e++1/H5LR5CxI6gWwx4WWg== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:35:02 +0000 Message-ID: <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B3828D@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B3828Dwdc1exchmbxp01h_" MIME-Version: 1.0 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15.00.1104.000; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:35:00 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: "Agarwal, Anil" Thread-Topic: Cubic (was Re: [tcpm] New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHQ+fJ471QnjH1ghkiSjeKBlhOSww== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:34:59 +0000 Message-ID: <8A5507EB-07A2-46E4-8EA5-E60C1845B131@netapp.com> References: <55C4C4CB.9080302@bobbriscoe.net> <55C4CEEF.1040504@bobbriscoe.net> <338a11745e05dd944c66be76fb925e97@mail.gmail.com> <55D36138.5060106@bobbriscoe.net> <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38246@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> In-Reply-To: <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38246@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.122.56.79] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7049F716-5E65-4670-8D17-2D60720872CE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: tcpm IETF list Subject: [tcpm] Cubic (was Re: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt) X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:36:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7049F716-5E65-4670-8D17-2D60720872CE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2015-09-28, at 15:28, Agarwal, Anil wrote: >=20 > Question - where is the CUBIC specification documented? How will it be = updated? Is there an RFC on CUBIC? there is https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-cubic/. The = goal was that this would document the Cubic code currently implemented = by Linux. This has been a slow effort, and it's getting slower since both Richard = and Alex probably won't have cycles in the foreseeable future to work on = this. So I think we're looking for someone else to take over the pen = (hi, Yuchung & Google folks :-) Lars --Apple-Mail=_7049F716-5E65-4670-8D17-2D60720872CE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBVglCA9ZcnpRveo1xAQhG/AP8CDiUHPFXKETze44YD5Ul/ChFIukiucne ZbI9+QS5enDU7tac8rSAaDFmhj28Y5ithlg0JVztUunHkDww6YhuuklVM2k4Pj24 Pyfs2rsbmCwvsK5zsbgeGqREqNW6UM3r3kqCFLDbZ5sTyMGiD/mFgZkxOg7LWgh+ c9Ylhmd16GA= =zCTl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7049F716-5E65-4670-8D17-2D60720872CE-- From nobody Mon Sep 28 10:35:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3A71AD1DB for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:35:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at 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bh=hCltGgGZFGDv1SbDwJUWQulpYGPLZLQyqxvoxSno8b4=; b=Gqk55v6hY0nnVj7H/sUQ675wySeHoW08FWH6rWqvAiYOHMwSeIzE8uSI5qcI99+BSIsRqELlQjFScsGso/F8O4EjMFym769+s9HsEvYQaxl/NYG3wW79Ko5a3RJFz3kqFWsfJYtAw4zv9AZASqp36fSl3/A3YtsE+20qDsmrbvQ= Received: from BN1PR03MB008.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.224.38) by BN1PR03MB007.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.224.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.280.20; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:35:06 +0000 Received: from BN1PR03MB008.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.36]) by BN1PR03MB008.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.36]) with mapi id 15.01.0280.017; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:35:06 +0000 From: Praveen Balasubramanian To: tcpm IETF list , Richard Scheffenegger , Bob Briscoe , =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= Thread-Topic: [tcpm] Fwd: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-kuehlewind-tcpm-accurate-ecn-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHQ8+3DCai6X9a1QkmYTzRhLREeTp5SP0Zw Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:35:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55F055AD.3050809@tik.ee.ethz.ch> 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pB8SIzumbi9O for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x22a.google.com (mail-vk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B85EB1B2C9E for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vkao3 with SMTP id o3so90526840vka.2 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:23:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=lqeGD2lQYa6v3+m30xmWcAiCXv5FS8RtKIogG3gj20E=; b=P4cTM+Qxg1FkLVSNx4OLFXZyHoWXVCYdAL1hT7Jsaw51ugGRTYKLeovxUlB3cBnl8H FUZkYYWY5vVgISyh168MIYKLToQEYjK5aAhV1R/mHz7fc3mKKunIyougjcohaMvsZLYC Kwkq3cPs9IR4OdksXnyDe1Ok+tTVtuEPil+DqetByWw3/FMvdVQ0s34eFWhecEh+qOsf 8wKmW6n0X6mMD2KSlTB/1/Yg8aDOpAdW7APIVLIAoZ/202FpII+QJv7mX6t+zICy/rqf WB+OV3LKgzoJgi77a59nNUfAw9JC6C8rjLFsRdt84ajSKkkbTmEPP2JVTHqeKFgE0mPm 6JsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=lqeGD2lQYa6v3+m30xmWcAiCXv5FS8RtKIogG3gj20E=; b=FeykYVTnU9N2yduqor9ncOnr/zK62R/xkOlcmD4qm0IkfWtCBW/A5x2a2UUnrci5mk 3gVUXD0JCLyVzmf6zU9bYfr6USq6IS876yqvQAdoQPukb+7+OOrE97Amdy/InY8r+Pqc N/nlM/zOARcJy/RBw/AAaFUWHRumv7czvPcRZ8qftHrBwm1d2vXsmVExEdi8eVX1gW8d Jqphv//cgYm32LDP3NV125MuUx+uFws39pGgjVUSTJMI2YV2D+MzozisIpMwM6whhZZ4 6NIiouuxsXvR/I+OQhLCr3myVHj75uijyJATozJRUPJjv13H4KXyDukvMvOqzQ1ux1Lv MeYA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnSyIPtzvjMFIoZgieN7VXwYuTPslf+SIstMmHsoPGUqk3Q7NfOBahPgYfUHZ3/hWIDCk8t X-Received: by 10.31.180.79 with SMTP id d76mr13707168vkf.111.1443471831797; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:23:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.193.86 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8A5507EB-07A2-46E4-8EA5-E60C1845B131@netapp.com> References: <55C4C4CB.9080302@bobbriscoe.net> <55C4CEEF.1040504@bobbriscoe.net> <338a11745e05dd944c66be76fb925e97@mail.gmail.com> <55D36138.5060106@bobbriscoe.net> <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38246@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> <8A5507EB-07A2-46E4-8EA5-E60C1845B131@netapp.com> From: Yuchung Cheng Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:23:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Eggert, Lars" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: tcpm IETF list Subject: Re: [tcpm] Cubic (was Re: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt) X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 20:23:56 -0000 On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > > Hi, > > On 2015-09-28, at 15:28, Agarwal, Anil wrote: > > > > Question - where is the CUBIC specification documented? How will it be updated? Is there an RFC on CUBIC? > > there is https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-cubic/. The goal was that this would document the Cubic code currently implemented by Linux. > > This has been a slow effort, and it's getting slower since both Richard and Alex probably won't have cycles in the foreseeable future to work on this. So I think we're looking for someone else to take over the pen (hi, Yuchung & Google folks :-) > Sorry I won't be able to help co-authoring the draft. But the fix is not that complicated. A new subsection on section 3 should suffice. Something like: 3.x Dealing with application idle Cubic determines how fast to grow the window based on how long ago the last loss event was. An oversight in the original design is that idling periods can make Cubic arbitrarily aggressive: after an idle period, the delta of (t - k) as well as the slope of cwnd increase become arbitrarily large in Section 3.1. In some implementation (e.g., Linux) the maximum increase is capped to be as fast as slow start. If the TCP implementation follows RFC 5681 or RFC 2861 to reduce cwnd after idle, the issue is masqueraded. But if the TCP implementation does not reduce cwnd after idle (i.e., RFC2861 or RFC5681), Cubic will slow start without a reduced cwnd and likely to induce losses quickly. To address this issue Cubic algorithm SHOULD offset the (t - k) in Section 3.1 by the amount of idle time. One approach (e.g., Linux) is to record the send time of the last packet, and calculate the idle time when the amount of inflight becomes positive again when sending the next packet after idle. These are the Linux patches for reference. https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/518918/ https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/516122/ https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/516123/ HTH > Lars > > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm > From nobody Mon Sep 28 15:35:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E371A0102 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:35:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.823 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.823 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FRT_FUCK2=3.434, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SOh27cCYCrvG for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta-us-west-01.viasat.com (mta-us-west-01.viasat.com [8.37.96.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4D161A00FA for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (VCASPAM01.hq.corp.viasat.com [127.0.0.1]) by VCASPAM01.hq.corp.viasat.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t8SMX2mO021769; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 22:35:13 GMT From: "Agarwal, Anil" To: Yuchung Cheng , "Eggert, Lars" Thread-Topic: [tcpm] Cubic (was Re: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHQ+iuXtzhy1PjW10am/LAJeubHaZ5SgwFA Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 22:35:11 +0000 Message-ID: <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38ECD@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> References: <55C4C4CB.9080302@bobbriscoe.net> <55C4CEEF.1040504@bobbriscoe.net> <338a11745e05dd944c66be76fb925e97@mail.gmail.com> <55D36138.5060106@bobbriscoe.net> <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38246@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> <8A5507EB-07A2-46E4-8EA5-E60C1845B131@netapp.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2015-09-29_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 kscore.is_bulkscore=0 kscore.compositescore=1 compositescore=0.9 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 kscore.is_spamscore=0 rbsscore=0.9 spamscore=0 urlsuspectscore=0.9 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1507310000 definitions=main-1509280288 Archived-At: Cc: tcpm IETF list Subject: Re: [tcpm] Cubic (was Re: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt) X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP 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<8A5507EB-07A2-46E4-8EA5-E60C1845B131@netapp.com> <7A2801D5E40DD64A85E38DF22117852C70B38ECD@wdc1exchmbxp01.hq.corp.viasat.com> From: Yuchung Cheng Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 16:28:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Agarwal, Anil" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Jana Iyengar , tcpm IETF list Subject: Re: [tcpm] Cubic (was Re: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupled-00.txt) X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:28:44 -0000 On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Agarwal, Anil wr= ote: > Yuchung, > > You wrote - > "If the TCP implementation follows RFC 5681 or RFC 2861 to reduce cwnd af= ter idle, the issue is masqueraded". > > Would it be more appropriate to state that - > If the TCP implementation follows RFC 5681 or RFC 2861 to reduce cwnd aft= er idle, the TCP slow-start cwnd increase algorithm should get used, not CU= BIC. That'd be fine w/ me if the draft considers Cubic is only effective when cwnd >=3D ssthresh. Jana would present the troubleshooting and results in the next mtg. the bug was initially discovered in QUIC (which uses Cubic). > > Thanks, > Anil > > P.S. Sorry about the confusion created by not editing the subject line co= rrectly > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yuchung Cheng [mailto:ycheng@google.com] > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 4:23 PM > To: Eggert, Lars > Cc: Agarwal, Anil; tcpm IETF list; Zimmermann, Alexander > Subject: Re: [tcpm] Cubic (was Re: New I-D: draft-briscoe-aqm-dualq-coupl= ed-00.txt) > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On 2015-09-28, at 15:28, Agarwal, Anil wrote: >> > >> > Question - where is the CUBIC specification documented? How will it be= updated? Is there an RFC on CUBIC? >> >> there is https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatrac= ker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dtcpm-2Dcubic_&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Djcv3orpCsv7C4l= y8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk&r=3DFyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jv= q4&m=3DgpOIxBF_PNjCo7ij5xixz0eqOB-Xt_ddmiwbeQmW7lI&s=3Db18CZjGX71Lsmel9s4E-= 8R8aFY1-71uvwem3J6QnMOg&e=3D . The goal was that this would document the Cu= bic code currently implemented by Linux. >> >> This has been a slow effort, and it's getting slower since both >> Richard and Alex probably won't have cycles in the foreseeable future >> to work on this. So I think we're looking for someone else to take >> over the pen (hi, Yuchung & Google folks :-) >> > Sorry I won't be able to help co-authoring the draft. But the fix is not = that complicated. A new subsection on section 3 should suffice. > Something like: > > 3.x Dealing with application idle > > Cubic determines how fast to grow the window based on how long ago the la= st loss event was. An oversight in the original design is that idling perio= ds can make Cubic arbitrarily aggressive: after an idle period, the delta o= f (t - k) as well as the slope of cwnd increase become arbitrarily large in= Section 3.1. In some implementation (e.g., Linux) the maximum increase is = capped to be as fast as slow start. > > If the TCP implementation follows RFC 5681 or RFC 2861 to reduce cwnd aft= er idle, the issue is masqueraded. But if the TCP implementation does not r= educe cwnd after idle (i.e., RFC2861 or RFC5681), Cubic will slow start wit= hout a reduced cwnd and likely to induce losses quickly. > > To address this issue Cubic algorithm SHOULD offset the (t - k) in Sectio= n 3.1 by the amount of idle time. One approach (e.g., Linux) is to record t= he send time of the last packet, and calculate the idle time when the amoun= t of inflight becomes positive again when sending the next packet after idl= e. > > > These are the Linux patches for reference. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__patchwork.ozlabs.o= rg_patch_518918_&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Djcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk= &r=3DFyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=3DgpOIxBF_PNjCo7ij5xixz0= eqOB-Xt_ddmiwbeQmW7lI&s=3D-40xAglDVsZhZJ3Cd5PncmRKZue4vz4V5sA3iTqYafo&e=3D > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__patchwork.ozlabs.o= rg_patch_516122_&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Djcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk= &r=3DFyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=3DgpOIxBF_PNjCo7ij5xixz0= eqOB-Xt_ddmiwbeQmW7lI&s=3DaA3H-aoHtcUBnfA-7s85Nu4oxArwhmM2N8tT1fV9uy0&e=3D > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__patchwork.ozlabs.o= rg_patch_516123_&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Djcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk= &r=3DFyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=3DgpOIxBF_PNjCo7ij5xixz0= eqOB-Xt_ddmiwbeQmW7lI&s=3DM-8Jum-_SDW0fVKKsSHmUto0Cw3DajRYRhxo0cdjOYw&e=3D > > HTH > > >> Lars >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tcpm mailing list >> tcpm@ietf.org >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail >> man_listinfo_tcpm&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Djcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA0= 6f >> Pk&r=3DFyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=3DgpOIxBF_PNjCo7ij5= xi >> xz0eqOB-Xt_ddmiwbeQmW7lI&s=3DFbVX6NYOKMRF5mIg0Z5WW4mBHmMudm1VvExLtmTkfpc >> &e=3D >> From nobody Tue Sep 29 15:56:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1DC1B2EC2 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 15:56:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pxqf_VmTnbPr for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 15:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 745501B2DBE for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 15:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 04A1E6C11C76; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:55:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.112]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t8TMtxNO002597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Sep 2015 00:55:59 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.114]) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 00:55:59 +0200 From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" To: "Lane Wigley (lwigley)" , "tcpm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TCP evolution impact on router buffers Thread-Index: AdD3qDJMG7WkdcJDTiy1iIy/H6510wDXEZsQ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:55:58 +0000 Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799E@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.40] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799EFR712WXCHMBA15z_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:56:05 -0000 --_000_655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799EFR712WXCHMBA15z_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This question may also be in scope of the AQM WG, and perhaps ICCRG, but si= nce the communities overlap, I avoid cross-posting... Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pointer or own data. But I am aware = of examples for router buffer dimensioning based on tests with a single TCP= connection, using Reno. In those examples, the dimension of the buffers an= d possibly other related parameters (two-color/three-color meters/policiers= , WRED slopes, H-QoS, etc.) are configured to achieve full "line" speed for= a single TCP connection. As to be expected, this typically comes down to t= he old BDP rule of thumb. But it is rather obvious that a single bulk data = Reno connection is not necessarily a realistic workload these days. So, the= test methodology can be one relevant aspect of the dimensioning problem. I believe that a modern TCP stack with a high-speed congestion control such= as CUBIC will typically need less buffer than the outcome of this dimensio= ning method and the publications 10 years ago. As far as I know, most moder= n TCP stacks operate well over a very wide range of buffer sizes, and the b= uffers can be relatively small. To me, the key question is the latency-thro= ughput tradeoff, and there may not be a one-fits-all answer to that one. Personally, I'd also be interested in more recent pointers on router buffer= dimensioning. I could even see some value in documenting dimensioning guid= elines used in practice, if there was a way to generalize them. Michael From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lane Wigley (lwigley= ) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:41 PM To: tcpm@ietf.org Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers I'm trying to track down some research or opinions on how the more recent T= CP schemes impact router buffer needs. There are a number of publications f= rom Stanford and Georgia Tech from about 10 years ago, and I'm trying to as= sess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initial con= gestion window) deployed since then may influence those findings in the dir= ection of more or less buffering being needed. I'd appreciate any input and pointers. Thanks. - Lane --_000_655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799EFR712WXCHMBA15z_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This qu= estion may also be in scope of the AQM WG, and perhaps ICCRG, but since the= communities overlap, I avoid cross-posting…

&n= bsp;

Unfortu= nately, I don’t have any recent pointer or own data. But I am aware o= f examples for router buffer dimensioning based on tests with a single TCP = connection, using Reno. In those examples, the dimension of the buffers and possibly other related parameters (two-color/= three-color meters/policiers, WRED slopes, H-QoS, etc.) are configured to a= chieve full “line” speed for a single TCP connection. As to be = expected, this typically comes down to the old BDP rule of thumb. But it is rather obvious that a single bulk data Reno c= onnection is not necessarily a realistic workload these days. So, the test = methodology can be one relevant aspect of the dimensioning problem.

&n= bsp;

I belie= ve that a modern TCP stack with a high-speed congestion control such as CUB= IC will typically need less buffer than the outcome of this dimensioning me= thod and the publications 10 years ago. As far as I know, most modern TCP stacks operate well over a very wide ran= ge of buffer sizes, and the buffers can be relatively small. To me, the key= question is the latency-throughput tradeoff, and there may not be a one-fi= ts-all answer to that one.

&n= bsp;

Persona= lly, I’d also be interested in more recent pointers on router buffer = dimensioning. I could even see some value in documenting dimensioning guide= lines used in practice, if there was a way to generalize them.

&n= bsp;

Michael=

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: tcpm [ma= ilto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lane Wigley (lwigley)
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:41 PM
To: tcpm@ietf.org
Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers

 

I’m trying to track down = some research or opinions on how the more recent TCP schemes impact router = buffer needs. There are a number of publications from Stanford and Georgia = Tech from about 10 years ago, and I’m trying to assess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initi= al congestion window) deployed since then may influence those findings in t= he direction of more or less buffering being needed.

 

I’d appreciate any input = and pointers. Thanks.

 

- Lane

 

 

--_000_655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799EFR712WXCHMBA15z_-- From nobody Wed Sep 30 06:10:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02EAC1A8029 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 06:10:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id evXY0ujOtDOP for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 06:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C6B11A7014 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 06:10:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11701; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1443618627; x=1444828227; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=kkq/jZZ4sY51Q0l6bKNgUOTS9l8cim3LIyhR85oM9D4=; b=ka32b44Fmp5LDre5VcserDqRKxQlzRc4adqvFgvVUuG4CJ44QHTAWf9k 4lerbQy44OS4olOQJDgh/JFKDr0VLN93QL54NwQzzNPhcBIfPjohTPeRL JCpMzLMDDdmY9PghyK1uMkv6haqHN3Yea9fU8Ugu00LMyrSyhBwLMNyK7 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AFAgC13gtW/5ldJa1egldNVGkGvWkBDYd0AoE2OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEJAEBAQQtXAIBCBEEAQEoBzIUCQgBAQQBEgiIJstfAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4ZzhH2FEwGELAWVeAGNDptTAR8BAUKEAnGIGYEFAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,612,1437436800"; d="scan'208,217";a="192980340" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Sep 2015 13:10:26 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (xch-aln-007.cisco.com [173.36.7.17]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t8UDAQmJ004313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:10:26 GMT Received: from xch-aln-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:10:25 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-009.cisco.com ([173.36.7.19]) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com ([173.36.7.19]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:10:25 -0500 From: "Lane Wigley (lwigley)" To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" , "tcpm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TCP evolution impact on router buffers Thread-Index: AdD3qDJMG7WkdcJDTiy1iIy/H6510wDXEZsQAB6kmpA= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:10:25 +0000 Message-ID: <46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98@XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com> References: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799E@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799E@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.71.35] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98XCHALN009ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:10:36 -0000 --_000_46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98XCHALN009ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This paper from 2008 shows no drops with a 5 msec buffer on a heavily-conge= sted core link. Low levels of drops start to show up around 2.5 msec. This = was conducted at Level 3 to test the BDP / sqrt # flows proposal from Stanf= ord. Experimental Study of Router Buffer Sizing - Neda Beheshti, Yashar Ganjali,= Monia Ghobadi, Nick McKeown, and Geoff Salmon They also explored TCP pacing as a way to further reduce buffers. I'm tryin= g to assess if CUBIC results in some pacing effect by decoupling the window= growth from acks. - Lane From: Scharf, Michael (Michael) [mailto:michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:56 PM To: Lane Wigley (lwigley); tcpm@ietf.org Subject: RE: TCP evolution impact on router buffers This question may also be in scope of the AQM WG, and perhaps ICCRG, but si= nce the communities overlap, I avoid cross-posting... Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pointer or own data. But I am aware = of examples for router buffer dimensioning based on tests with a single TCP= connection, using Reno. In those examples, the dimension of the buffers an= d possibly other related parameters (two-color/three-color meters/policiers= , WRED slopes, H-QoS, etc.) are configured to achieve full "line" speed for= a single TCP connection. As to be expected, this typically comes down to t= he old BDP rule of thumb. But it is rather obvious that a single bulk data = Reno connection is not necessarily a realistic workload these days. So, the= test methodology can be one relevant aspect of the dimensioning problem. I believe that a modern TCP stack with a high-speed congestion control such= as CUBIC will typically need less buffer than the outcome of this dimensio= ning method and the publications 10 years ago. As far as I know, most moder= n TCP stacks operate well over a very wide range of buffer sizes, and the b= uffers can be relatively small. To me, the key question is the latency-thro= ughput tradeoff, and there may not be a one-fits-all answer to that one. Personally, I'd also be interested in more recent pointers on router buffer= dimensioning. I could even see some value in documenting dimensioning guid= elines used in practice, if there was a way to generalize them. Michael From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lane Wigley (lwigley= ) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:41 PM To: tcpm@ietf.org Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers I'm trying to track down some research or opinions on how the more recent T= CP schemes impact router buffer needs. There are a number of publications f= rom Stanford and Georgia Tech from about 10 years ago, and I'm trying to as= sess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initial con= gestion window) deployed since then may influence those findings in the dir= ection of more or less buffering being needed. I'd appreciate any input and pointers. Thanks. - Lane --_000_46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98XCHALN009ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This paper from 2008 s= hows no drops with a 5 msec buffer on a heavily-congested core link. Low le= vels of drops start to show up around 2.5 msec. This was conducted at Level= 3 to test the BDP / sqrt # flows proposal from Stanford.

 

Experimental Study of Router Buffer Sizing – N= eda Beheshti, Yashar Ganjali, Monia Ghobadi, Nick McKeown, and Geoff Salmon=

 

They also explored TCP pacing as a way to further re= duce buffers. I’m trying to assess if CUBIC results in some pacing ef= fect by decoupling the window growth from acks.

 

- Lane

 

 

From: Scharf, = Michael (Michael) [mailto:michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:56 PM
To: Lane Wigley (lwigley); tcpm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: TCP evolution impact on router buffers

 

This question may also= be in scope of the AQM WG, and perhaps ICCRG, but since the communities ov= erlap, I avoid cross-posting…

 

Unfortunately, I don&#= 8217;t have any recent pointer or own data. But I am aware of examples for = router buffer dimensioning based on tests with a single TCP connection, usi= ng Reno. In those examples, the dimension of the buffers and possibly other related parameters (two-color/three-colo= r meters/policiers, WRED slopes, H-QoS, etc.) are configured to achieve ful= l “line” speed for a single TCP connection. As to be expected, = this typically comes down to the old BDP rule of thumb. But it is rather obvious that a single bulk data Reno connection= is not necessarily a realistic workload these days. So, the test methodolo= gy can be one relevant aspect of the dimensioning problem.

 

I believe that a moder= n TCP stack with a high-speed congestion control such as CUBIC will typical= ly need less buffer than the outcome of this dimensioning method and the pu= blications 10 years ago. As far as I know, most modern TCP stacks operate well over a very wide range of buffer= sizes, and the buffers can be relatively small. To me, the key question is= the latency-throughput tradeoff, and there may not be a one-fits-all answe= r to that one.

 

Personally, I’d = also be interested in more recent pointers on router buffer dimensioning. I= could even see some value in documenting dimensioning guidelines used in p= ractice, if there was a way to generalize them.

 

Michael

 

 

 

From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lane Wigley (lwigley)
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:41 PM
To: tcpm@ietf.org
Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers

 

I’m trying to track down some research or opin= ions on how the more recent TCP schemes impact router buffer needs. There a= re a number of publications from Stanford and Georgia Tech from about 10 ye= ars ago, and I’m trying to assess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initial congestion window) = deployed since then may influence those findings in the direction of more o= r less buffering being needed.

 

I’d appreciate any input and pointers. Thanks.=

 

- Lane

 

 

--_000_46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98XCHALN009ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Sep 30 09:41:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639DD1B4774 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:41:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.26 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JKiG8E8ItcmB for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TW-EDGE-P02.cnesnet.ad.cnes.fr (edge2.cnes.fr [132.149.49.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88CCC1B5F60 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Kuhn Nicolas To: "Lane Wigley (lwigley)" , "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" , "tcpm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TCP evolution impact on router buffers Thread-Index: AdD3qDJMG7WkdcJDTiy1iIy/H6510wDXEZsQAB6kmpAABLWoIA== Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:41:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D484D799E@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98@XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46616f47b42841f0bb7a2afb8bdeac98@XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4179-8.000.1202-21850.001 x-tm-as-result: No--59.077800-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F3B0A07CFD358240926B78A680E166FF822C08TWMBXP03cnesnetad_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:41:14 -0000 --_000_F3B0A07CFD358240926B78A680E166FF822C08TWMBXP03cnesnetad_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In [1], the authors evaluate the performance of CUBIC in small buffer regim= e. However, they use the Linux kernel version 2.6.18 (where the IW was 3 an= d not 10). Also, for any tests on CUBIC, small buffers and IW3/10, you may = be interested in looking at the scenario "7. Burst absorption" of the AQM = Characterization Guidelines of the AQM WG [2]. Concerning TCP pacing, there= is an on-going document on a pacing solution in the slow-start that you ma= y want to have a look and comment [3]. I hope this helps, Cheers, Nicolas [1] Jain, S.; Raina, G., "An experimental evaluation of CUBIC TCP in a smal= l buffer regime," in Communications (NCC), 2011 National Conference on , vo= l., no., pp.1-5, 28-30 Jan. 2011 doi: 10.1109/NCC.2011.5734779 URL: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=3D&arnumber=3D5734779&is= number=3D5734693 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-aqm-eval-guidelines-08 [3] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sallantin-tcpm-initial-spreading-01 De : tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Lane Wigley (lwigley= ) Envoy=E9 : mercredi 30 septembre 2015 15:10 =C0 : Scharf, Michael (Michael); tcpm@ietf.org Objet : Re: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers This paper from 2008 shows no drops with a 5 msec buffer on a heavily-conge= sted core link. Low levels of drops start to show up around 2.5 msec. This = was conducted at Level 3 to test the BDP / sqrt # flows proposal from Stanf= ord. Experimental Study of Router Buffer Sizing - Neda Beheshti, Yashar Ganjali,= Monia Ghobadi, Nick McKeown, and Geoff Salmon They also explored TCP pacing as a way to further reduce buffers. I'm tryin= g to assess if CUBIC results in some pacing effect by decoupling the window= growth from acks. - Lane From: Scharf, Michael (Michael) [mailto:michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:56 PM To: Lane Wigley (lwigley); tcpm@ietf.org Subject: RE: TCP evolution impact on router buffers This question may also be in scope of the AQM WG, and perhaps ICCRG, but si= nce the communities overlap, I avoid cross-posting... Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pointer or own data. But I am aware = of examples for router buffer dimensioning based on tests with a single TCP= connection, using Reno. In those examples, the dimension of the buffers an= d possibly other related parameters (two-color/three-color meters/policiers= , WRED slopes, H-QoS, etc.) are configured to achieve full "line" speed for= a single TCP connection. As to be expected, this typically comes down to t= he old BDP rule of thumb. But it is rather obvious that a single bulk data = Reno connection is not necessarily a realistic workload these days. So, the= test methodology can be one relevant aspect of the dimensioning problem. I believe that a modern TCP stack with a high-speed congestion control such= as CUBIC will typically need less buffer than the outcome of this dimensio= ning method and the publications 10 years ago. As far as I know, most moder= n TCP stacks operate well over a very wide range of buffer sizes, and the b= uffers can be relatively small. To me, the key question is the latency-thro= ughput tradeoff, and there may not be a one-fits-all answer to that one. Personally, I'd also be interested in more recent pointers on router buffer= dimensioning. I could even see some value in documenting dimensioning guid= elines used in practice, if there was a way to generalize them. Michael From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lane Wigley (lwigley= ) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:41 PM To: tcpm@ietf.org Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers I'm trying to track down some research or opinions on how the more recent T= CP schemes impact router buffer needs. There are a number of publications f= rom Stanford and Georgia Tech from about 10 years ago, and I'm trying to as= sess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initial con= gestion window) deployed since then may influence those findings in the dir= ection of more or less buffering being needed. I'd appreciate any input and pointers. Thanks. - Lane --_000_F3B0A07CFD358240926B78A680E166FF822C08TWMBXP03cnesnetad_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, =

&nbs= p;

In [1], t= he authors evaluate the performance of CUBIC in small buffer regime. Howeve= r, they use the Linux kernel version 2.6.18 (where the IW was 3 and not 10)= . Also, for any tests on CUBIC, small buffers and IW3/10, you may be interested in looking at the scenario ̶= 0;7.  Burst absorption” of the AQM Characterization Guidelines o= f the AQM WG [2]. Concerning TCP pacing, there is an on-going document on a= pacing solution in the slow-start that you may want to have a look and comment [3].

&nbs= p;

I hope th= is helps,

Cheers,

&nbs= p;

Nicolas

 

[1] Jain, S.; Raina, G., "An = experimental evaluation of CUBIC TCP in a small buffer regime," in Communications (NCC), 2011 National Conference on , vol., no., pp.1-= 5, 28-30 Jan. 2011
doi: 10.1109/NCC.2011.5734779
URL: http://ie= eexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=3D&arnumber=3D5734779&isnumber= =3D5734693

[2] https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-aqm-eval-guidelines-08

[3] https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-sallantin-tcpm-initial-spreading-01

 

De : tcpm= [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Lane Wigley (lwigley)
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 30 septembre 2015 15:10
=C0 : Scharf, Michael (Michael); tcpm@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers<= /o:p>

 

This pa= per from 2008 shows no drops with a 5 msec buffer on a heavily-congested co= re link. Low levels of drops start to show up around 2.5 msec. This was con= ducted at Level 3 to test the BDP / sqrt # flows proposal from Stanford.

&n= bsp;

Experimental Study of Router Bu= ffer Sizing – Neda Beheshti, Yashar Ganjali, Monia Ghobadi, Nick McKe= own, and Geoff Salmon

 

They also explored TCP pacing a= s a way to further reduce buffers. I’m trying to assess if CUBIC resu= lts in some pacing effect by decoupling the window growth from acks.

 

- Lane

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: Scharf, Michael (Michael) [mailto:michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:56 PM
To: Lane Wigley (lwigley); tcpm@iet= f.org
Subject: RE: TCP evolution impact on router buffers

 

This qu= estion may also be in scope of the AQM WG, and perhaps ICCRG, but since the= communities overlap, I avoid cross-posting…

&n= bsp;

Unfortu= nately, I don’t have any recent pointer or own data. But I am aware o= f examples for router buffer dimensioning based on tests with a single TCP = connection, using Reno. In those examples, the dimension of the buffers and possibly other related parameters (two-color/= three-color meters/policiers, WRED slopes, H-QoS, etc.) are configured to a= chieve full “line” speed for a single TCP connection. As to be = expected, this typically comes down to the old BDP rule of thumb. But it is rather obvious that a single bulk data Reno c= onnection is not necessarily a realistic workload these days. So, the test = methodology can be one relevant aspect of the dimensioning problem.

&n= bsp;

I belie= ve that a modern TCP stack with a high-speed congestion control such as CUB= IC will typically need less buffer than the outcome of this dimensioning me= thod and the publications 10 years ago. As far as I know, most modern TCP stacks operate well over a very wide ran= ge of buffer sizes, and the buffers can be relatively small. To me, the key= question is the latency-throughput tradeoff, and there may not be a one-fi= ts-all answer to that one.

&n= bsp;

Persona= lly, I’d also be interested in more recent pointers on router buffer = dimensioning. I could even see some value in documenting dimensioning guide= lines used in practice, if there was a way to generalize them.

&n= bsp;

Michael=

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lane Wigley (lwigley)
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:41 PM
To: tcpm@ietf.org
Subject: [tcpm] TCP evolution impact on router buffers

 

I’m trying to track down = some research or opinions on how the more recent TCP schemes impact router = buffer needs. There are a number of publications from Stanford and Georgia = Tech from about 10 years ago, and I’m trying to assess how changes to the algorithms (e.g. CUBIC) and parameters (initi= al congestion window) deployed since then may influence those findings in t= he direction of more or less buffering being needed.

 

I’d appreciate any input = and pointers. Thanks.

 

- Lane

 

 

--_000_F3B0A07CFD358240926B78A680E166FF822C08TWMBXP03cnesnetad_-- From nobody Wed Sep 30 17:24:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F0D1ACD7A for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.844 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.844 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z-KGn3IPABEN for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailfilter.orange.md (mailfilter.orange.md [94.243.64.204]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EC31ACD62 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:24:47 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sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F5.3B.17026.0ABCC065; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 07:58:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.99]) by ESESSHC016.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.66]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 07:58:56 +0200 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: Veaceslav ROMAN , Eric Dumazet , Neal Cardwell Thread-Topic: [tcpm] [e2e] TCP HyStart patch deployment Thread-Index: AdCXp+zNDAZ7zydkTra0wALqZYyJLQH+JqqAA0qsYsAOCTWagAADKaaAABZGAgAAAuJsAABGVozQ///TRACAAB/3AIAAKj8AgAEIjoCAABVIgP//hZhA/9ZLHXD/q+ph8A== Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 05:58:55 +0000 Message-ID: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34BD84BC@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA32145DE4@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <1FFD9A11-ADF2-4BA6-A9D3-D8997E1A13E5@gmail.com> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B2E666@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E64B65@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E65133@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E676EF@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> <1441314842.8932.222.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <1441385297.17208.6.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E856CA@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> In-Reply-To: <7DBBB686E19D2049ADAACD210B474BB10166E856CA@XCHSRV01.main.orange.md> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7C0zxhBtO7WS2eHnvEbrH73FQW i33vz7JZdNzZC2TNmMhoceTKMUaLbSfnM1m8/7+R2YHDY+esu+weCzaVeixZ8pPJY8myp4we Hcc3MAewRnHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlNN84zlJwr5GpYuO7mcwNjBN+M3YxcnJICJhIHG3sZoew xSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcJRR4t6mj4wQziJGiZWretlAqtgEbCRWHvoO1i0iUCex9ORnJpAiZoFe 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