Subject: Generic vs Non Generic

From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 09:36:12 +0000

The current brandID's are evenly split into two groups.

Generic Terms

VISA
MasterCard
GeldKarte (Money Card in German)
paybox
Dankort  (may not be in native language  I do not speak Danish but is
suspect it is Dan Card)

Mixed terms

EZpay

Non Generic Clearly Trademarkable
JCB
Maestro
Mondex

Based on this there would not seem to be a reason for objecting to other
generic terms as BrandID's.

Thoughts please.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

---

From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:24:34 +0000

Thanks for the response.

In the case of Credits it is in current usage and is a trademark of @UK PLC.
The application details are available at
 
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/cgi-bin/casablanca/cb_cgi?cb_dialogue=dlg_tmer85
&detailsrequested=C&trademark=2208829

or http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number/ and enter 2208829

The application was for a series of marks Credits, @Credits and @PLC
Credits, and was filed on 16/9/1999 and registered on 13/7/2001.

VISA was not a trademark when launched it has been established as a
trademark through massive marketing.

A more current item is Passport not yet a trademark, but I suspect that it
will be a trademark of Microsoft in a few years time.

The point I was trying to make is that a large number of brands such as
Virgin start out as generic terms that then become trademarks through usage.

And yes there may be other people using credits e.g. Goldman Sacs currently
have a trademark application pending for CrEDITS in the EU.

My feeling is that the issue is not whither we have a trademark or are using
Credits but whither Credits is likely to cause confusion or restrict the
implementation of the trading protocol.

-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan Unwin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 06 November 2001 08:51
To: 'Ronald Duncan'
Cc: [email-masked]'
Subject: RE: Generic vs Non Generic

Sorry Ronald,  don't agree with the analysis.

VISA and MasterCard are not generic but registered trademarks of VISA and
MasterCard.  The combination of works can be a trademarks e.g. I could
easily trademark FluffyDog Cola.  but not the individual words themselves.
The objection is that you are attempting to register a term widely used in a
generic sense - which is why I thinkn most people on the list have objected.

Regards,

Duncan Unwin

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Saturday, 3 November 2001 7:36 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: Generic vs Non Generic

Generic Terms

VISA
MasterCard

Mixed terms

EZpay

Thoughts please.

---

From: Duncan Unwin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:50:57 +1000

Regards,

Duncan Unwin

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Saturday, 3 November 2001 7:36 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: Generic vs Non Generic

Generic Terms

VISA
MasterCard

Mixed terms

EZpay

Thoughts please.

---

From: "Lewis, Tony" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:43:17 -0800

> In the case of Credits it is in current usage and is a trademark of @UK 

The trademark issued was "@PLC credits", which is not "Credits".
_________________________________________________________________
Tony Lewis ([email-masked])
Chief Systems Architect, Application Architecture & Standards
Visa International Service Association

---

From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:59:56 +0000

Correct,

And if you look up the mark and the history you will see the series of marks
applied for was.

Credits,
@Credits and
@PLC Credits.

As per my email to the list.

Regards -- Ronald

---

From: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:06:33 -0800

Ronald

The basic process for getting a BrandId as described at
http://www.iana.org/assignments/iotp-codes is: 

"New values of BrandId must be announced to the IETF Trade mailing list and,
if there are no objections within three weeks, are allocated on a "first
come first served" basis"

Unfortunately there have been several objections to "Credits" which I don't
think this current discussion will resolve.

Also comparisons with the trademark registration process is irrelevant as we
are not following the process for registering a trademark, we are following
the process outlined above.

So, if you want to register a BrandId, then you need to suggest an
alternative to which no-one objects. I don't see why this should be
difficult?

Regards

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:00 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: Generic vs Non Generic

Correct,

Credits,
@Credits and
@PLC Credits.

Regards -- Ronald

---

From: "Lewis, Tony" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:56:05 -0800

No, Ronald. You claimed that "Credits" was a trademark of @UK PLC. When I
followed the link you provided, I found that not to be the case.

Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:00 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: Generic vs Non Generic

Correct,

Credits,
@Credits and
@PLC Credits.

Regards -- Ronald