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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IANA Considerations in Stunbis
Thread-Index: AQHVkLIRONf5yQgSS0KoKm8GOYZ8KA==
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:44:14 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/Sr2KCHTS4_s5LRU97cCV7sTL2j8>
Subject: [tram] IANA Considerations in Stunbis
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Hi,

Before we actually performs a change to the STUNbis to incorporate the IANA
section I want to check a thing. Does anyone have a memory of the plan and =
why
the IANA registration rules wasn't moved forward with the Stunbis document?=
=20
=20
Cheers

Magnus Westerlund=20


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Subject: Re: [tram] IANA Considerations in Stunbis
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From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,
 "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [tram] IANA Considerations in Stunbis
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Hi Magnus,

The modification from the RFC5389 IANA section to the current format that=
 contains only the modification requests made to IANA was done in -03, ba=
ck in 2015-03-26.  The changelog states "Cleaned the IANA consideration s=
ection.", which may have been a bit too thorough.

I'll send a suggested update to the RFC Editor.

On 11/1/19 5:44 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> Before we actually performs a change to the STUNbis to incorporate the =
IANA
> section I want to check a thing. Does anyone have a memory of the plan =
and why
> the IANA registration rules wasn't moved forward with the Stunbis docum=
ent?=20
> =20
> Cheers
>=20
> Magnus Westerlund=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Networks, Ericsson Research
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
> Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> tram mailing list
> tram@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram
>=20


--=20
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug


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From nobody Mon Nov  4 15:47:24 2019
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Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-14.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Path MTU Discovery Using Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN)
        Authors         : Marc Petit-Huguenin
                          Gonzalo Salgueiro
                          Felipe Garrido
	Filename        : draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-14.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2019-11-04

Abstract:
   This document describes a Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN)
   Usage for Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD) between a client and a server.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-14
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Sun Nov 10 06:56:15 2019
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To: "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
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Subject: [tram] Updated IANA sections in STUNbis (RFC 8489)
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I have been asked by Magnus to send the proposed changed to the IANA section to the WG and to Harald for review.  The full new content of the 3 sections are copied below:


"18.2.  STUN Methods Registry

    A STUN method is a hex number in the range 0x000 - 0xFFF.  The
    encoding of STUN method into a STUN message is described in
    Section 5.

    STUN methods in the range 0x000 - 0x7FF are assigned by IETF Review
    [RFC5226].  STUN methods in the range 0x800 - 0xFFF are assigned by
    Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
    verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use and that the
    request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
    Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
    designated expert responsibility.

    IANA has updated the name for method 0x002 as described below as well
    as updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the following
    STUN methods:

    0x000: Reserved
    0x001: Binding
    0x002: Reserved; was SharedSecret prior to [RFC5389]"

"18.3.  STUN Attributes Registry

    A STUN Attribute type is a hex number in the range 0x0000 - 0xFFFF.
    STUN attribute types in the range 0x0000 - 0x7FFF are considered
    comprehension-required; STUN attribute types in the range 0x8000 -
    0xFFFF are considered comprehension-optional.  A STUN agent handles
    unknown comprehension-required and comprehension-optional attributes
    differently.

    STUN Attribute types in the first half of the comprehension-required
    range (0x0000 - 0x3FFF) and in the first half of the comprehension-
    optional range (0x8000 - 0xBFFF) are assigned by IETF Review
    [RFC5226].  STUN Attribute types in the second half of the
    comprehension-required range (0x4000 - 0x7FFF) and in the second half
    of the comprehension-optional range (0xC000 - 0xFFFF) are assigned by
    Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
    verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use, and that the
    request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
    Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
    designated expert responsibility."

"18.4.  STUN Error Codes Registry

    A STUN error code is a number in the range 0 - 699.  STUN error codes
    are accompanied by a textual reason phrase in UTF-8 [RFC3629] that is
    intended only for human consumption and can be anything appropriate;
    this document proposes only suggested values.

    STUN error codes are consistent in codepoint assignments and
    semantics with SIP [RFC3261] and HTTP [RFC2616].

    New STUN error codes are assigned based on IETF Review [RFC5226].
    The specification must carefully consider how clients that do not
    understand this error code will process it before granting the
    request.  See the rules in Section 6.3.4.

   IANA has updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the
   error codes defined in Section 14.8.

   IANA has changed the name of the 401 error code from "Unauthorized"
   to "Unauthenticated"."

-- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug


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Subject: Re: [tram] Updated IANA sections in STUNbis (RFC 8489)
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Den 10.11.2019 15:56, skrev Marc Petit-Huguenin:
> I have been asked by Magnus to send the proposed changed to the IANA section to the WG and to Harald for review.  The full new content of the 3 sections are copied below:

Great to see this!

Nits:
- RFC 5226 is obsoleted by RFC 8226
- The term "Designated Expert" is now deprecated; please use "Expert
Review" (8226 section 4.5).

Those are the ones I found on reading. Also, there's one question below.
Apart from that, I'm happy.

> 
> 
> "18.2.  STUN Methods Registry
> 
>     A STUN method is a hex number in the range 0x000 - 0xFFF.  The
>     encoding of STUN method into a STUN message is described in
>     Section 5.
> 
>     STUN methods in the range 0x000 - 0x7FF are assigned by IETF Review
>     [RFC5226].  STUN methods in the range 0x800 - 0xFFF are assigned by
>     Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use and that the
>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
>     designated expert responsibility.
> 
>     IANA has updated the name for method 0x002 as described below as well
>     as updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the following
>     STUN methods:
> 
>     0x000: Reserved
>     0x001: Binding
>     0x002: Reserved; was SharedSecret prior to [RFC5389]"
> 
> "18.3.  STUN Attributes Registry
> 
>     A STUN Attribute type is a hex number in the range 0x0000 - 0xFFFF.
>     STUN attribute types in the range 0x0000 - 0x7FFF are considered
>     comprehension-required; STUN attribute types in the range 0x8000 -
>     0xFFFF are considered comprehension-optional.  A STUN agent handles
>     unknown comprehension-required and comprehension-optional attributes
>     differently.
> 
>     STUN Attribute types in the first half of the comprehension-required
>     range (0x0000 - 0x3FFF) and in the first half of the comprehension-
>     optional range (0x8000 - 0xBFFF) are assigned by IETF Review
>     [RFC5226].  STUN Attribute types in the second half of the
>     comprehension-required range (0x4000 - 0x7FFF) and in the second half
>     of the comprehension-optional range (0xC000 - 0xFFFF) are assigned by
>     Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use, and that the
>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
>     designated expert responsibility."

Are there no attributes with an updated reference in this registry?

> 
> "18.4.  STUN Error Codes Registry
> 
>     A STUN error code is a number in the range 0 - 699.  STUN error codes
>     are accompanied by a textual reason phrase in UTF-8 [RFC3629] that is
>     intended only for human consumption and can be anything appropriate;
>     this document proposes only suggested values.
> 
>     STUN error codes are consistent in codepoint assignments and
>     semantics with SIP [RFC3261] and HTTP [RFC2616].
> 
>     New STUN error codes are assigned based on IETF Review [RFC5226].
>     The specification must carefully consider how clients that do not
>     understand this error code will process it before granting the
>     request.  See the rules in Section 6.3.4.
> 
>    IANA has updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the
>    error codes defined in Section 14.8.
> 
>    IANA has changed the name of the 401 error code from "Unauthorized"
>    to "Unauthenticated"."
> 


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From: "Felipe Garrido (fegarrid)" <fegarrid@cisco.com>
To: "ben@nostrum.com" <ben@nostrum.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org>, "tram-chairs@ietf.org" <tram-chairs@ietf.org>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [tram] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with COMMENT)
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From: "Felipe Garrido (fegarrid)" <fegarrid@cisco.com>
To: "ekr@rtfm.com" <ekr@rtfm.com>
CC: "tram-chairs@ietf.org" <tram-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tram] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: [tram] FW: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with COMMENT)
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From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
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Cc: "draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org>,  "tram-chairs@ietf.org" <tram-chairs@ietf.org>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
To: "Felipe Garrido (fegarrid)" <fegarrid@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [tram] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with COMMENT)
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Hi,

I am no longer an AD, so my comments are only advisory at this point. =
But in any case, your responses resolve my comments.

Thanks!

Ben.



> On Nov 14, 2019, at 2:29 AM, Felipe Garrido (fegarrid) =
<fegarrid@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Ben,=20
> =20
> Responses are in-line  and updated in the latest draft. Let me know if =
they address your COMMENTS.
> =20
> Thanks,
> -Felipe
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com <mailto:ben@nostrum.com>>
> Subject: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: =
(with COMMENT)
> Date: September 26, 2018 at 3:33:30 PM EDT
> To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org <mailto:iesg@ietf.org>>
> Cc: <draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org>>, Gonzalo Camarillo =
<gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com =
<mailto:gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>>, Tolga Asveren =
<tasveren@rbbn.com <mailto:tasveren@rbbn.com>>, <tram-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:tram-chairs@ietf.org>>, <tasveren@rbbn.com =
<mailto:tasveren@rbbn.com>>, <tram@ietf.org <mailto:tram@ietf.org>>
> Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>>
> Resent-To: <marc@petit-huguenin.org <mailto:marc@petit-huguenin.org>>, =
<gsalguei@cisco.com <mailto:gsalguei@cisco.com>>
> =20
> Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: No Objection
>=20
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>=20
>=20
> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html =
<https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html>
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>=20
>=20
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> I support Adam's DISCUSS. I will go a bit further to say that, even if =
a new
> IETF LC occurs, I would be skeptical that the dependency on PADDING in =
a
> standards track protocol is appropriate unless people are willing to =
argue that
> RFC 5780 has become mature enough that it could reasonably be promoted =
to
> standards track.
>=20
> Another alternative might be to re-describe PADDING in this draft, as =
it is
> used in the context of the draft. I don't normally love that sort of
> duplication, but it might be appropriate here.
>=20
>=20
> [FG] This was addressed in an earlier draft.
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> Other comments:
>=20
> =C2=A72: "It is not intended as a replacement for [RFC4821]": I find =
this comment
> confusing. Are other sections in the document intended to replace some =
or all
> of 4821?
> [FG] Updated wording.=20
>=20
> =E2=80=9CThis section is meant to be informative only and is not =
intended as a substitute for=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>=20
>=20
> =C2=A74: "The probing mechanism is used to discover the Path MTU in =
one direction
> only...": Can this mechanism not be used bidirectionally, with =
reciprocal
> client-server roles?
>=20
> [FG] Yes, and this is noted in later sections. Added additional =
wording in this section.
>=20
> =E2=80=9CBoth endpoints MAY behave as a client and a server to achieve =
bi-directional path discovery.=E2=80=9D
>=20
>=20
> =C2=A74.1.2: "The server MUST add the FINGERPRINT attribute...": Is =
this a new
> requirement for PMTUD, or a generic STUN requirement? If the latter, =
it should
> not be stated normatively. (Same comment for =C2=A74.2.1)
>=20
> [FG]  Yes, this is new for PMTUD.=20
>=20
>=20
> =C2=A74.2.1: "If the authentication mechanism permits it, then the =
Indication MUST
> be authenticated": Is that intended to imply it's okay to use =
authentication
> mechanisms that don't allow this?
>=20
> [FG] Yes, do you see an issue with the statement?
>=20
>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_00CF6520-E9CD-4D60-AA56-7112DF5B9819
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I am =
no longer an AD, so my comments are only advisory at this point. But in =
any case, your responses resolve my comments.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks!</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Ben.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov =
14, 2019, at 2:29 AM, Felipe Garrido (fegarrid) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:fegarrid@cisco.com" class=3D"">fegarrid@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi =
Ben,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Responses =
are in-line &nbsp;and updated in the latest draft. Let me know if they =
address your COMMENTS.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">-Felipe<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">Ben =
Campbell &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ben@nostrum.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">ben@nostrum.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica =
Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">Subject: Ben Campbell's No Objection on =
draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with COMMENT)</span></b><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica =
Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">September =
26, 2018 at 3:33:30 PM EDT</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">The IESG =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">iesg@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&gt;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">Cc:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">&gt;, =
Gonzalo Camarillo &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com</span></a><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">&gt;, =
Tolga Asveren &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:tasveren@rbbn.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">tasveren@rbbn.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">&gt;, &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:tram-chairs@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">tram-chairs@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">&gt;, &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:tasveren@rbbn.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
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class=3D"">marc@petit-huguenin.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">&gt;, &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gsalguei@cisco.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" class=3D"">gsalguei@cisco.com</span></a><span=
 style=3D"font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&gt;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
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Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Ben =
Campbell has entered the following ballot position for<br =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: No Objection<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">When responding, please keep the subject line intact and =
reply to all<br class=3D"">email addresses included in the To and CC =
lines. (Feel free to cut this<br class=3D"">introductory paragraph, =
however.)<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Please refer =
to<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><b=
r class=3D"">for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT =
positions.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The document, =
along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/</a=
><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br class=3D"">COMMENT:<br =
class=3D"">---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I support Adam's DISCUSS. I will go =
a bit further to say that, even if a new<br class=3D"">IETF LC occurs, I =
would be skeptical that the dependency on PADDING in a<br =
class=3D"">standards track protocol is appropriate unless people are =
willing to argue that<br class=3D"">RFC 5780 has become mature enough =
that it could reasonably be promoted to<br class=3D"">standards =
track.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Another alternative might be to =
re-describe PADDING in this draft, as it is<br class=3D"">used in the =
context of the draft. I don't normally love that sort of<br =
class=3D"">duplication, but it might be appropriate here.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">[FG] This was addressed in an earlier draft.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br =
class=3D"">Other comments:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=C2=A72: "It is =
not intended as a replacement for [RFC4821]": I find this comment<br =
class=3D"">confusing. Are other sections in the document intended to =
replace some or all<br class=3D"">of 4821?<br class=3D"">[FG] Updated =
wording.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">=E2=80=9CThis =
section is meant to be informative only and is not intended as a =
substitute for=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class=3D"">=C2=A74: "The probing =
mechanism is used to discover the Path MTU in one direction<br =
class=3D"">only...": Can this mechanism not be used bidirectionally, =
with reciprocal<br class=3D"">client-server roles?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">[FG] Yes, and =
this is noted in later sections. Added additional wording in this =
section.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">=E2=80=9CBoth endpoints MAY behave as a client and a server =
to achieve bi-directional path discovery.=E2=80=9D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br =
class=3D"">=C2=A74.1.2: "The server MUST add the FINGERPRINT =
attribute...": Is this a new<br class=3D"">requirement for PMTUD, or a =
generic STUN requirement? If the latter, it should<br class=3D"">not be =
stated normatively. (Same comment for =C2=A74.2.1)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">[FG]&nbsp; Yes, this is new for PMTUD.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class=3D"">=C2=A74.2.1: "If the =
authentication mechanism permits it, then the Indication MUST<br =
class=3D"">be authenticated": Is that intended to imply it's okay to use =
authentication<br class=3D"">mechanisms that don't allow this?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">[FG] Yes, do you see an issue with the =
statement?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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To: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>
References: <ac5ba642-60a0-84c8-9e2d-b6b0c83677fb@acm.org> <cfe3cfa2-de13-a6c6-f0ed-f4f67ce25d71@alvestrand.no>
From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
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Subject: Re: [tram] Updated IANA sections in STUNbis (RFC 8489)
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From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
To: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <6a30205b-36d5-ea0c-5105-cffdb327e915@acm.org>
Subject: Re: [tram] Updated IANA sections in STUNbis (RFC 8489)
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 <cfe3cfa2-de13-a6c6-f0ed-f4f67ce25d71@alvestrand.no>
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Hi Harald,

Thanks for the review, please find the new text below.  About your questi=
on about attributes with an updated reference, these are still listed in =
sections 18.3.1 (updated attributes) and 18.3.2 (new attributes).  The te=
xt in section 18.3 below in just added in front of these 2 sections.


"18.2.  STUN Methods Registry

    A STUN method is a hex number in the range 0x000 - 0xFFF.  The
    encoding of STUN method into a STUN message is described in
    Section 5.

    STUN methods in the range 0x000 - 0x7FF are assigned by IETF Review
    [RFC8226].  STUN methods in the range 0x800 - 0xFFF are assigned by
    Expert Review [RFC8226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
    verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use and that the
    request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
    Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
    designated expert responsibility.

    IANA has updated the name for method 0x002 as described below as well=

    as updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the following
    STUN methods:

    0x000: Reserved
    0x001: Binding
    0x002: Reserved; was SharedSecret prior to [RFC5389]"

"18.3.  STUN Attributes Registry

    A STUN Attribute type is a hex number in the range 0x0000 - 0xFFFF.
    STUN attribute types in the range 0x0000 - 0x7FFF are considered
    comprehension-required; STUN attribute types in the range 0x8000 -
    0xFFFF are considered comprehension-optional.  A STUN agent handles
    unknown comprehension-required and comprehension-optional attributes
    differently.

    STUN Attribute types in the first half of the comprehension-required
    range (0x0000 - 0x3FFF) and in the first half of the comprehension-
    optional range (0x8000 - 0xBFFF) are assigned by IETF Review
    [RFC8226].  STUN Attribute types in the second half of the
    comprehension-required range (0x4000 - 0x7FFF) and in the second half=

    of the comprehension-optional range (0xC000 - 0xFFFF) are assigned by=

    Expert Review [RFC8226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
    verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use, and that the
    request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
    Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
    designated expert responsibility."

"18.4.  STUN Error Codes Registry

    A STUN error code is a number in the range 0 - 699.  STUN error codes=

    are accompanied by a textual reason phrase in UTF-8 [RFC3629] that is=

    intended only for human consumption and can be anything appropriate;
    this document proposes only suggested values.

    STUN error codes are consistent in codepoint assignments and
    semantics with SIP [RFC3261] and HTTP [RFC2616].

    New STUN error codes are assigned based on IETF Review [RFC8226].
    The specification must carefully consider how clients that do not
    understand this error code will process it before granting the
    request.  See the rules in Section 6.3.4.

   IANA has updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the
   error codes defined in Section 14.8.

   IANA has changed the name of the 401 error code from "Unauthorized"
   to "Unauthenticated"."


On 11/11/19 6:12 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> Den 10.11.2019 15:56, skrev Marc Petit-Huguenin:
>> I have been asked by Magnus to send the proposed changed to the IANA s=
ection to the WG and to Harald for review.  The full new content of the 3=
 sections are copied below:
>=20
> Great to see this!
>=20
> Nits:
> - RFC 5226 is obsoleted by RFC 8226
> - The term "Designated Expert" is now deprecated; please use "Expert
> Review" (8226 section 4.5).
>=20
> Those are the ones I found on reading. Also, there's one question below=
=2E
> Apart from that, I'm happy.
>=20
>>
>>
>> "18.2.  STUN Methods Registry
>>
>>     A STUN method is a hex number in the range 0x000 - 0xFFF.  The
>>     encoding of STUN method into a STUN message is described in
>>     Section 5.
>>
>>     STUN methods in the range 0x000 - 0x7FF are assigned by IETF Revie=
w
>>     [RFC5226].  STUN methods in the range 0x800 - 0xFFF are assigned b=
y
>>     Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is =
to
>>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use and that the
>>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of t=
he
>>     designated expert responsibility.
>>
>>     IANA has updated the name for method 0x002 as described below as w=
ell
>>     as updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the followi=
ng
>>     STUN methods:
>>
>>     0x000: Reserved
>>     0x001: Binding
>>     0x002: Reserved; was SharedSecret prior to [RFC5389]"
>>
>> "18.3.  STUN Attributes Registry
>>
>>     A STUN Attribute type is a hex number in the range 0x0000 - 0xFFFF=
=2E
>>     STUN attribute types in the range 0x0000 - 0x7FFF are considered
>>     comprehension-required; STUN attribute types in the range 0x8000 -=

>>     0xFFFF are considered comprehension-optional.  A STUN agent handle=
s
>>     unknown comprehension-required and comprehension-optional attribut=
es
>>     differently.
>>
>>     STUN Attribute types in the first half of the comprehension-requir=
ed
>>     range (0x0000 - 0x3FFF) and in the first half of the comprehension=
-
>>     optional range (0x8000 - 0xBFFF) are assigned by IETF Review
>>     [RFC5226].  STUN Attribute types in the second half of the
>>     comprehension-required range (0x4000 - 0x7FFF) and in the second h=
alf
>>     of the comprehension-optional range (0xC000 - 0xFFFF) are assigned=
 by
>>     Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is =
to
>>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use, and that the=

>>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of t=
he
>>     designated expert responsibility."
>=20
> Are there no attributes with an updated reference in this registry?
>=20
>>
>> "18.4.  STUN Error Codes Registry
>>
>>     A STUN error code is a number in the range 0 - 699.  STUN error co=
des
>>     are accompanied by a textual reason phrase in UTF-8 [RFC3629] that=
 is
>>     intended only for human consumption and can be anything appropriat=
e;
>>     this document proposes only suggested values.
>>
>>     STUN error codes are consistent in codepoint assignments and
>>     semantics with SIP [RFC3261] and HTTP [RFC2616].
>>
>>     New STUN error codes are assigned based on IETF Review [RFC5226].
>>     The specification must carefully consider how clients that do not
>>     understand this error code will process it before granting the
>>     request.  See the rules in Section 6.3.4.
>>
>>    IANA has updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the
>>    error codes defined in Section 14.8.
>>
>>    IANA has changed the name of the 401 error code from "Unauthorized"=

>>    to "Unauthenticated"."
>>
>=20


--=20
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug


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Subject: Re: [tram] Updated IANA sections in STUNbis (RFC 8489)
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Den 25.11.2019 14:48, skrev Marc Petit-Huguenin:
> Hi Harald,
> 
> Thanks for the review, please find the new text below.  About your question about attributes with an updated reference, these are still listed in sections 18.3.1 (updated attributes) and 18.3.2 (new attributes).  The text in section 18.3 below in just added in front of these 2 sections.

Looks good to me!

The "attributes updated" is what happens when reviewing diffs rather
than documents - I assume you'll get it back together in a good way.

Thanks for the update!

Harald

> 
> 
> "18.2.  STUN Methods Registry
> 
>     A STUN method is a hex number in the range 0x000 - 0xFFF.  The
>     encoding of STUN method into a STUN message is described in
>     Section 5.
> 
>     STUN methods in the range 0x000 - 0x7FF are assigned by IETF Review
>     [RFC8226].  STUN methods in the range 0x800 - 0xFFF are assigned by
>     Expert Review [RFC8226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use and that the
>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
>     designated expert responsibility.
> 
>     IANA has updated the name for method 0x002 as described below as well
>     as updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the following
>     STUN methods:
> 
>     0x000: Reserved
>     0x001: Binding
>     0x002: Reserved; was SharedSecret prior to [RFC5389]"
> 
> "18.3.  STUN Attributes Registry
> 
>     A STUN Attribute type is a hex number in the range 0x0000 - 0xFFFF.
>     STUN attribute types in the range 0x0000 - 0x7FFF are considered
>     comprehension-required; STUN attribute types in the range 0x8000 -
>     0xFFFF are considered comprehension-optional.  A STUN agent handles
>     unknown comprehension-required and comprehension-optional attributes
>     differently.
> 
>     STUN Attribute types in the first half of the comprehension-required
>     range (0x0000 - 0x3FFF) and in the first half of the comprehension-
>     optional range (0x8000 - 0xBFFF) are assigned by IETF Review
>     [RFC8226].  STUN Attribute types in the second half of the
>     comprehension-required range (0x4000 - 0x7FFF) and in the second half
>     of the comprehension-optional range (0xC000 - 0xFFFF) are assigned by
>     Expert Review [RFC8226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use, and that the
>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
>     designated expert responsibility."
> 
> "18.4.  STUN Error Codes Registry
> 
>     A STUN error code is a number in the range 0 - 699.  STUN error codes
>     are accompanied by a textual reason phrase in UTF-8 [RFC3629] that is
>     intended only for human consumption and can be anything appropriate;
>     this document proposes only suggested values.
> 
>     STUN error codes are consistent in codepoint assignments and
>     semantics with SIP [RFC3261] and HTTP [RFC2616].
> 
>     New STUN error codes are assigned based on IETF Review [RFC8226].
>     The specification must carefully consider how clients that do not
>     understand this error code will process it before granting the
>     request.  See the rules in Section 6.3.4.
> 
>    IANA has updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the
>    error codes defined in Section 14.8.
> 
>    IANA has changed the name of the 401 error code from "Unauthorized"
>    to "Unauthenticated"."
> 
> 
> On 11/11/19 6:12 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
>> Den 10.11.2019 15:56, skrev Marc Petit-Huguenin:
>>> I have been asked by Magnus to send the proposed changed to the IANA section to the WG and to Harald for review.  The full new content of the 3 sections are copied below:
>>
>> Great to see this!
>>
>> Nits:
>> - RFC 5226 is obsoleted by RFC 8226
>> - The term "Designated Expert" is now deprecated; please use "Expert
>> Review" (8226 section 4.5).
>>
>> Those are the ones I found on reading. Also, there's one question below.
>> Apart from that, I'm happy.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "18.2.  STUN Methods Registry
>>>
>>>     A STUN method is a hex number in the range 0x000 - 0xFFF.  The
>>>     encoding of STUN method into a STUN message is described in
>>>     Section 5.
>>>
>>>     STUN methods in the range 0x000 - 0x7FF are assigned by IETF Review
>>>     [RFC5226].  STUN methods in the range 0x800 - 0xFFF are assigned by
>>>     Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
>>>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use and that the
>>>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>>>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
>>>     designated expert responsibility.
>>>
>>>     IANA has updated the name for method 0x002 as described below as well
>>>     as updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the following
>>>     STUN methods:
>>>
>>>     0x000: Reserved
>>>     0x001: Binding
>>>     0x002: Reserved; was SharedSecret prior to [RFC5389]"
>>>
>>> "18.3.  STUN Attributes Registry
>>>
>>>     A STUN Attribute type is a hex number in the range 0x0000 - 0xFFFF.
>>>     STUN attribute types in the range 0x0000 - 0x7FFF are considered
>>>     comprehension-required; STUN attribute types in the range 0x8000 -
>>>     0xFFFF are considered comprehension-optional.  A STUN agent handles
>>>     unknown comprehension-required and comprehension-optional attributes
>>>     differently.
>>>
>>>     STUN Attribute types in the first half of the comprehension-required
>>>     range (0x0000 - 0x3FFF) and in the first half of the comprehension-
>>>     optional range (0x8000 - 0xBFFF) are assigned by IETF Review
>>>     [RFC5226].  STUN Attribute types in the second half of the
>>>     comprehension-required range (0x4000 - 0x7FFF) and in the second half
>>>     of the comprehension-optional range (0xC000 - 0xFFFF) are assigned by
>>>     Designated Expert [RFC5226].  The responsibility of the expert is to
>>>     verify that the selected codepoint(s) are not in use, and that the
>>>     request is not for an abnormally large number of codepoints.
>>>     Technical review of the extension itself is outside the scope of the
>>>     designated expert responsibility."
>>
>> Are there no attributes with an updated reference in this registry?
>>
>>>
>>> "18.4.  STUN Error Codes Registry
>>>
>>>     A STUN error code is a number in the range 0 - 699.  STUN error codes
>>>     are accompanied by a textual reason phrase in UTF-8 [RFC3629] that is
>>>     intended only for human consumption and can be anything appropriate;
>>>     this document proposes only suggested values.
>>>
>>>     STUN error codes are consistent in codepoint assignments and
>>>     semantics with SIP [RFC3261] and HTTP [RFC2616].
>>>
>>>     New STUN error codes are assigned based on IETF Review [RFC5226].
>>>     The specification must carefully consider how clients that do not
>>>     understand this error code will process it before granting the
>>>     request.  See the rules in Section 6.3.4.
>>>
>>>    IANA has updated the reference from RFC 5389 to RFC 8489 for the
>>>    error codes defined in Section 14.8.
>>>
>>>    IANA has changed the name of the 401 error code from "Unauthorized"
>>>    to "Unauthenticated"."
>>>
>>
> 
> 

