From nobody Mon Apr 4 09:36:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7B712D11E for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:36:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JMcfOpYhlXhl for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A68C12D735 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 18173 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2016 18:36:34 +0200 Received: from dhcp-b040.meeting.ietf.org (31.133.176.64) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 4 Apr 2016 18:36:33 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:36:28 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: tsv-art@ietf.org, tsv-chairs@ietf.org, tsv-ads@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] TSV Dinner on Monday April 4 X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 16:36:40 -0000 Hi all, here are the details for our dinner reservation tonight: Restaurant: Brasas Argentinas Place: Av. Alicia Moreau de Justo 1108 Time: 20:30 (08:30 PM) Map: Phone: +54 11 4331-4386 Cost: $205 per person, plus beverages (beverages are paid separately). Have to pay in cash (i.e., please make sure to have pesos available) Type: It's an "eat as much as you want" kind of restaurant, with lots of different stuff to eat, and includes grilled beef. Please come either directly to the restaurant or meet us at 8:10 in the = Hilton lobby to walk together to the restaurant. If you would still like to join and did not put your name in the doodle = previously, please let us know such that we can make sure that there is = enough space. Thanks to Fernando Gont for finding the restaurant and supporting us! See you later, Mirja, Martin, and Spencer > Am 21.03.2016 um 12:17 schrieb Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) = : >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > we will have a TSV dinner on Monday night and would like to invite all = TSV chairs as well as the members of the new TSV ART to join. Please = fill the doodle below as an estimate for how many people we need to make = the reservation: >=20 > http://doodle.com/poll/dk3e9r9rag6ytat6 >=20 > Further instructions on the restaurant and meeting point will follow! >=20 > See you all in BA! > Mirja, Spencer, and Martin >=20 From nobody Tue Apr 19 08:30:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EC312DFE0 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QVMxnuO9Erzv for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5007212D969 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id u206so36064923wme.1 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:30:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fpUQM0qAd2FaAlgmbWIpdz4ypm0oVAbJy+97ibvBCew=; b=DfBYjr2Vc1s1MCOJxv0PQsDmoHvFgtBGb2GD5wB4TQE4sAZiVWwgvVL+ZG8GcdY7C/ bWP72v61pSRz+vqY3oZI4cOqDDlma3L/5zvPPieQJCKAUfAV5oRwAymzHJnmkgSjBaqt pLMQAv5jyMObM883yMfYrOPPIxU9gbMsvhX9liyyBSUfk8H5nr3jNk/BKqZMneFK4ZxL Y4LnyrLv7w0lV3Otb/C2WtBlHWW2FNkr+ojTJkAkoVymuJad3t3jZUVjp9rWdH2L6cpR lNX+RhKqebRXnuGg00T7yupKrrymo5dcCZzChdQD29nCeqSJiaVfThVNS+nV+SceTjNc Zjmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fpUQM0qAd2FaAlgmbWIpdz4ypm0oVAbJy+97ibvBCew=; b=I/trL7Qoqp+4mQXOCQsTYz8Pq2RAR8VAE15fgUr1+Xnww/yNhpAOFphqxaY5vqd23E HAOEJocyISQiHO3jZm76raw2j2i7cuxaJwGiQIJ+3t7Vsn3UX3XWcdTHHsUsd+/kjt5d c+NcgYMSBkQJ7TBsXXNQZMSE9brtNrFAczJHAPVUSzHU7P5ZUX5ASdtfRlhzDLkttDQk s4+/AMJz/sktHQ8iptVGMvKrSNAK1XxzCk8pbjOBIgKLSQnLU45EjVZwYdPYQ8geAgRu CmrSi9Pt+ov5fnKTQCYLUdMR3QStOR89XOzcoDNnlFgRtucPBIlC5Fz9N0+hG1IOsYhy PM3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWOcOF+QEpVCIdwV54kYQCkBJeweHSqNsYogygKrr9uNgjJdkQ+QWFCMC+Ex4w4uw== X-Received: by 10.28.63.148 with SMTP id m142mr1211911wma.85.1461079805831; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mn-mn0F.local ([2a01:598:91c0:1024:1484:f644:4d8e:1e4a]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m6sm825042wje.21.2016.04.19.08.30.04 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:30:05 -0700 (PDT) To: tsv-art@ietf.org From: Martin Stiemerling Message-ID: <57164EFB.80404@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:30:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Tsv-art] Looking for a reviewr for 3 BFD documents X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:30:15 -0000 Dear all, Here comes the first request for the TSVART. There are three BFD drafts that need a bit of TSV care: (1) draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-base (1) draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-ip (1) draft-ietf-bfd-seamless-use-case Anybody volunteering to take all three as one pack? BFD had issues in the past in forgetting to care about congestion handling a bit. RFC 5880 has good words, pushed by the ADs at the time of the publication, about congestion handling. Looking forward to a volunteer! Thanks, Martin (for the TSV triage team) From nobody Mon Apr 25 07:29:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD8212D5DE for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RbjxqLf_aatd for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22b.google.com (mail-yw0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9C1112D50B for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id g133so187270603ywb.2 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=IcTlQOuaNLvUQVVSy17QxjAZ0V/ytuEFIBQbR/03mUU=; b=Ne82SSSdTu9hMYf3BaajmoCqQ+XGk+UqURoamNxEF75JJP6i5vJB/LcE6eYiBrsode zzky+7xTrrPtYoOpvRWOCimeqOo/uMy/YXCsJ6A72VryPTPVUUr6yjS40v9HLFekVg2M 8IyHbdYcyw2vlL+cBh3xTwvvv2kNRpY6NloH0o9BhhXYvKIc14BAMAOb2PQm9UrRdm6X GzFznNLz+tBaYm7M2zrRxTkQI450OSRMXwZT2bDY3YanZbmhK0/mh9LU8njqK54alDzn wz3nH3c3dHe9zg7wuaYhi33XMBMnP8AW2XJl/pO5yUXAZe3zIvRtSy11lkniv0bZl7EH oVkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=IcTlQOuaNLvUQVVSy17QxjAZ0V/ytuEFIBQbR/03mUU=; b=eMOJJwjxOt1YJIe2crhV0S1T5/j9LCSZ7xVTy2SNz4HtIi9R7/W4ycLFLBR7IXZOMr h4Obl2hfWrOMpxRckP1cKVsmyc1pak3mVjowfVCo5487fiU8ZCZ8efDd4S4mD2ZaP5F3 DzDlIjovSMx4tliBzB4EboG/mmDWYBGMOMxRJ3iW8aJDFBYAhenwyVvZ34agJUFtMr4V 3LlyPREoJPajRulcosrlaFIyK8BtPZJx73qZvLU7meZK0fqfR14+iF5Rpj3Z/EIwTBKs R/SQmze6m8q7Y470cy2R0hqgN69KexNixCdHGsQ3JKWzF33YehJo/piYYxYAaA7t8EIM ZiCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVHgdFhjtsOFTO95YwjuYRW8bPICi3MFRFsDeg6yl34X98aprtMrwUf8KB+Eipo4ph6ZMJnjz9tz9Jl2g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.37.114.198 with SMTP id n189mr15147170ybc.76.1461594536936; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.224.212 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:28:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF To: tsv-art@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114bb6f42e0fad05314fffc3 Archived-At: Subject: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:28:59 -0000 --001a114bb6f42e0fad05314fffc3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear TSV-ART, So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common TSV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get your feedback on the current issues list, which is at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, before we send that out. If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let us know if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great! Thanks, Spencer and Mirja --001a114bb6f42e0fad05314fffc3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear TSV-ART,

So, Mirja and I would lik= e to let the community know what common TSV issues the TSV-ART will be look= ing for, and we'd like to get your feedback on the current issues list,= which is at=C2=A0http://t= rac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, before we s= end that out.

<= /span>
If you could = take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let us know if you think c= hanges are needed by May 9, that would be great!

Thanks,

Spencer and Mirja
--001a114bb6f42e0fad05314fffc3-- From nobody Mon Apr 25 11:19:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8374D12B004 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.316 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.316 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=emc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2TbD7_y1uZTK for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.238.45.55] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D243277949362E97FE5DMX104CL02corpem_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:19:38 -0000 --_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D243277949362E97FE5DMX104CL02corpem_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU3BlbmNlciwNCg0KSGVyZSBhcmUgYSBmZXcgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnM6DQoNCi0tIFVzZSBvZiBV RFANCg0KSeKAmWQgcmVmZXJlbmNlIHRoZSByZmM1NDA1YmlzIGRyYWZ0IGZvciB3aGljaCBwdWJs aWNhdGlvbiBoYXMgYmVlbiByZXF1ZXN0ZWQgaW4gYWRkaXRpb24gdG8gUkZDIDU0MDUsIGFzIGl0 IGNvbnRhaW5zIGEgbG90IG9mIGFkZGVkIGNvbnRlbnQgKHRoaXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIOKAnGluc3Rl 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at IETF To: "Black, David" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114bb6f43f55cc053153d460 Archived-At: Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:03:29 -0000 --001a114bb6f43f55cc053153d460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, David, On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David wrote: > Hi Spencer, > > > > Here are a few suggestions: > > > > -- Use of UDP > > > > I=E2=80=99d reference the rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been > requested in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added content > (this should be =E2=80=9Cinstead of RFC 5405=E2=80=9D after IESG approval= of the bis > draft). There are a lot of things in this draft that could be called out > e.g., reinvention of congestion control is strongly discouraged. > Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis was so obvious that I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist to include it :-) Others? Spencer > We now recognize =E2=80=9CControlled Environments=E2=80=9D as restricted > deployment/applicability scenarios where general Internet requirements > (e.g., for congestion control) may be relaxed under suitable (e.g., > operator) control - see section 3.6 of the rfc5405bis draft for discussio= n > and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a worked example. > > > > Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is subtle and requires design > attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936. Note that these two RFCs contain desi= gn > requirements, so it=E2=80=99s insufficient to just normatively reference = those two > RFCs and impose their requirements - an explanation of how the protocol > design (for zero UDP checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is > needed). RFC 7510 is also a worked example here, and its content on this > topic is not short. > > > > -- PDU Sizes > > > > I=E2=80=99d add a discussion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that = use of > the latter needs to include an explanation of how. Use of the former nee= ds > to be cognizant of the general unreliability of ICMP Packet Too Big > notifications, especially when sent upstream from within a tunnel (may no= t > propagate across ingress). > > > > -- Multicast > > > > Many of the concerns may be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps someone wh= o > spends more time on multicast than I do could come up with a short list o= f > things to watch out for. > > > > Thanks, --David > > > > *From:* Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Spencer > Dawkins at IETF > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM > *To:* tsv-art@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues > > > > Dear TSV-ART, > > > > So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common TSV > issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get your feedbac= k > on the current issues list, which is at > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, > before we send that out. > > > > If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let us know > if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Spencer and Mirja > --001a114bb6f43f55cc053153d460 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, David,

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David &= lt;david.black@emc= .com> wrote:

Hi Spencer,=

=C2=A0

Here are a few suggestion= s:

=C2=A0

-- Use of UDP

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d reference the= rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been requested in addition to R= FC 5405, as it contains a lot of added content (this should be =E2=80=9Cins= tead of RFC 5405=E2=80=9D after IESG approval of the bis draft).=C2=A0 There ar= e a lot of things in this draft that could be called out e.g., reinvention = of congestion control is strongly discouraged.


Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405b= is was so obvious that I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist t= o include it :-)

Others?

= Spencer
=C2=A0

We= now recognize =E2=80=9CControlled Environments=E2=80=9D as restricted depl= oyment/applicability scenarios where general Internet requirements (e.g., f= or congestion control) may be relaxed under suitable (e.g., operator) control - see section 3.6 o= f the rfc5405bis draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a worked = example.

=C2=A0

Use of zero UDP checksums= with IPv6 is subtle and requires design attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936.= =C2=A0 Note that these two RFCs contain design requirements, so it=E2=80=99s insufficient to just normatively reference those two RFCs = and impose their requirements - an explanation of how the protocol design (= for zero UDP checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is needed).=C2=A0= RFC 7510 is also a worked example here, and its content on this topic is not short.

=C2=A0

-- PDU Sizes

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d add a discuss= ion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that use of the latter needs to = include an explanation of how.=C2=A0 Use of the former needs to be cognizan= t of the general unreliability of ICMP Packet Too Big notifications, especia= lly when sent upstream from within a tunnel (may not propagate across ingre= ss).

=C2=A0

-- Multicast

=C2=A0

Many of the concerns may = be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps someone who spends more time on multi= cast than I do could come up with a short list of things to watch out for.

=C2=A0

Thanks, --David=

=C2=A0

From: Tsv-art = [mailto:tsv-a= rt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM
To: tsv-art@ie= tf.org
Subject: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues

=C2=A0

Dear TSV-ART,

=C2=A0

So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know= what common TSV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like = to get your feedback on the current issues list, which is at=C2=A0http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/tra= c/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, before we send that out.

=C2=A0

If you could take a look at t= he current TSV issues, list, and let us know if you think changes are neede= d by May 9, that would be great!

=C2=A0

Thanks,<= /p>

=C2=A0

Spencer and Mirja


--001a114bb6f43f55cc053153d460-- From nobody Mon Apr 25 12:35:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFC712D6DB for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:35:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBj7GBGRr2aB for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitro.isi.edu (nitro.isi.edu [128.9.208.207]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39B4112D6CF for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.123.198.5] (usc-secure-wireless-206-005.usc.edu [68.181.206.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by nitro.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3PJZ7O2025993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:35:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , "Black, David" References: From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <571E716A.6050609@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:35:06 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030803080204070906000108" X-MailScanner-ID: u3PJZ7O2025993 X-ISI-4-69-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , touch@isi.edu Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:35:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030803080204070906000108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FWIW - I added a handful of things this AM... Joe On 4/25/2016 12:03 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, David, > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David > wrote: > > Hi Spencer, > > > > Here are a few suggestions: > > > > -- Use of UDP > > > > I’d reference the rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been > requested in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added > content (this should be “instead of RFC 5405” after IESG approval > of the bis draft). There are a lot of things in this draft that > could be called out e.g., reinvention of congestion control is > strongly discouraged. > > > Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis was so obvious that > I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist to include it :-) > > Others? > > Spencer > > > We now recognize “Controlled Environments” as restricted > deployment/applicability scenarios where general Internet > requirements (e.g., for congestion control) may be relaxed under > suitable (e.g., operator) control - see section 3.6 of the > rfc5405bis draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a > worked example. > > > > Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is subtle and requires design > attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936. Note that these two RFCs > contain design requirements, so it’s insufficient to just > normatively reference those two RFCs and impose their requirements > - an explanation of how the protocol design (for zero UDP > checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is needed). RFC 7510 > is also a worked example here, and its content on this topic is > not short. > > > > -- PDU Sizes > > > > I’d add a discussion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that > use of the latter needs to include an explanation of how. Use of > the former needs to be cognizant of the general unreliability of > ICMP Packet Too Big notifications, especially when sent upstream > from within a tunnel (may not propagate across ingress). > > > > -- Multicast > > > > Many of the concerns may be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps > someone who spends more time on multicast than I do could come up > with a short list of things to watch out for. > > > > Thanks, --David > > > > *From:*Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@ietf.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Spencer Dawkins > at IETF > *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM > *To:* tsv-art@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues > > > > Dear TSV-ART, > > > > So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common > TSV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get > your feedback on the current issues list, which is > at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, > before we send that out. > > > > If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let > us know if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Spencer and Mirja > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tsv-art mailing list > Tsv-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art --------------030803080204070906000108 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FWIW - I added a handful of things this AM...

Joe

On 4/25/2016 12:03 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
Hi, David,

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David <david.black@emc.com> wrote:

Hi Spencer,

 

Here are a few suggestions:

 

-- Use of UDP

 

I’d reference the rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been requested in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added content (this should be “instead of RFC 5405” after IESG approval of the bis draft).  There are a lot of things in this draft that could be called out e.g., reinvention of congestion control is strongly discouraged.


Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis was so obvious that I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist to include it :-)

Others?

Spencer
 

We now recognize “Controlled Environments” as restricted deployment/applicability scenarios where general Internet requirements (e.g., for congestion control) may be relaxed under suitable (e.g., operator) control - see section 3.6 of the rfc5405bis draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a worked example.

 

Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is subtle and requires design attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936.  Note that these two RFCs contain design requirements, so it’s insufficient to just normatively reference those two RFCs and impose their requirements - an explanation of how the protocol design (for zero UDP checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is needed).  RFC 7510 is also a worked example here, and its content on this topic is not short.

 

-- PDU Sizes

 

I’d add a discussion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that use of the latter needs to include an explanation of how.  Use of the former needs to be cognizant of the general unreliability of ICMP Packet Too Big notifications, especially when sent upstream from within a tunnel (may not propagate across ingress).

 

-- Multicast

 

Many of the concerns may be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps someone who spends more time on multicast than I do could come up with a short list of things to watch out for.

 

Thanks, --David

 

From: Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM
To: tsv-art@ietf.org
Subject: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues

 

Dear TSV-ART,

 

So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common TSV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get your feedback on the current issues list, which is at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, before we send that out.

 

If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let us know if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great!

 

Thanks,

 

Spencer and Mirja




_______________________________________________
Tsv-art mailing list
Tsv-art@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art

--------------030803080204070906000108-- From nobody Mon Apr 25 15:07:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7672112D0FC for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:07:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0igFKSc-uJN0 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EB9312D0DA for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.9.184.193] ([128.9.184.193]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3PM6i0u006876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , "Black, David" References: <571E716A.6050609@isi.edu> From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <571E94F3.2090505@isi.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:06:43 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <571E716A.6050609@isi.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040502090905000509090306" X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , touch@isi.edu Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:07:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040502090905000509090306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Also, it might be good to consider reorganzing the list into some sort of taxonomy. I had a draft of this sort of thing I had been preparing for TSV-AREA at one point. Let me know if it would be useful to dig out. Joe On 4/25/2016 12:35 PM, Joe Touch wrote: > FWIW - I added a handful of things this AM... > > Joe > > On 4/25/2016 12:03 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: >> Hi, David, >> >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David > > wrote: >> >> Hi Spencer, >> >> >> >> Here are a few suggestions: >> >> >> >> -- Use of UDP >> >> >> >> I’d reference the rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been >> requested in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added >> content (this should be “instead of RFC 5405” after IESG approval >> of the bis draft). There are a lot of things in this draft that >> could be called out e.g., reinvention of congestion control is >> strongly discouraged. >> >> >> Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis was so obvious >> that I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist to include it :-) >> >> Others? >> >> Spencer >> >> >> We now recognize “Controlled Environments” as restricted >> deployment/applicability scenarios where general Internet >> requirements (e.g., for congestion control) may be relaxed under >> suitable (e.g., operator) control - see section 3.6 of the >> rfc5405bis draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a >> worked example. >> >> >> >> Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is subtle and requires design >> attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936. Note that these two RFCs >> contain design requirements, so it’s insufficient to just >> normatively reference those two RFCs and impose their >> requirements - an explanation of how the protocol design (for >> zero UDP checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is >> needed). RFC 7510 is also a worked example here, and its content >> on this topic is not short. >> >> >> >> -- PDU Sizes >> >> >> >> I’d add a discussion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that >> use of the latter needs to include an explanation of how. Use of >> the former needs to be cognizant of the general unreliability of >> ICMP Packet Too Big notifications, especially when sent upstream >> from within a tunnel (may not propagate across ingress). >> >> >> >> -- Multicast >> >> >> >> Many of the concerns may be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps >> someone who spends more time on multicast than I do could come up >> with a short list of things to watch out for. >> >> >> >> Thanks, --David >> >> >> >> *From:*Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@ietf.org >> ] *On Behalf Of *Spencer Dawkins >> at IETF >> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM >> *To:* tsv-art@ietf.org >> *Subject:* [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues >> >> >> >> Dear TSV-ART, >> >> >> >> So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common >> TSV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get >> your feedback on the current issues list, which is >> at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, >> before we send that out. >> >> >> >> If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let >> us know if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be >> great! >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Spencer and Mirja >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tsv-art mailing list >> Tsv-art@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art > --------------040502090905000509090306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Also, it might be good to consider reorganzing the list into some sort of taxonomy. I had a draft of this sort of thing I had been preparing for TSV-AREA at one point. Let me know if it would be useful to dig out.

Joe

On 4/25/2016 12:35 PM, Joe Touch wrote:
FWIW - I added a handful of things this AM...

Joe

On 4/25/2016 12:03 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
Hi, David,

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David <david.black@emc.com> wrote:

Hi Spencer,

 

Here are a few suggestions:

 

-- Use of UDP

 

I’d reference the rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been requested in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added content (this should be “instead of RFC 5405” after IESG approval of the bis draft).  There are a lot of things in this draft that could be called out e.g., reinvention of congestion control is strongly discouraged.


Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis was so obvious that I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist to include it :-)

Others?

Spencer
 

We now recognize “Controlled Environments” as restricted deployment/applicability scenarios where general Internet requirements (e.g., for congestion control) may be relaxed under suitable (e.g., operator) control - see section 3.6 of the rfc5405bis draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a worked example.

 

Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is subtle and requires design attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936.  Note that these two RFCs contain design requirements, so it’s insufficient to just normatively reference those two RFCs and impose their requirements - an explanation of how the protocol design (for zero UDP checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is needed).  RFC 7510 is also a worked example here, and its content on this topic is not short.

 

-- PDU Sizes

 

I’d add a discussion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that use of the latter needs to include an explanation of how.  Use of the former needs to be cognizant of the general unreliability of ICMP Packet Too Big notifications, especially when sent upstream from within a tunnel (may not propagate across ingress).

 

-- Multicast

 

Many of the concerns may be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps someone who spends more time on multicast than I do could come up with a short list of things to watch out for.

 

Thanks, --David

 

From: Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM
To: tsv-art@ietf.org
Subject: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues

 

Dear TSV-ART,

 

So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common TSV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get your feedback on the current issues list, which is at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, before we send that out.

 

If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let us know if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great!

 

Thanks,

 

Spencer and Mirja




_______________________________________________
Tsv-art mailing list
Tsv-art@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art


--------------040502090905000509090306-- From nobody Fri Apr 29 11:13:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsv-art@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55A512D167 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:13:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.306 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.306 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=emc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b4OfIs9t2Lcz for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF50D12D1C1 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd04.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd04.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.36]) by mailuogwprd03.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id u3TIDNIl002432 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:13:24 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd03.lss.emc.com u3TIDNIl002432 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1461953605; bh=GEsXYPUd5PrPjQMmbbszTDrXgug=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=RgcvifMBHMObxHWxBEETO3rZKxtRPx0nWjYrkNV5azAGLP5G3q7366cUPj01cDRwQ ISI48s+XLwxnott82+IgaBZBI+S6v3bSME8LCzOTw0m3So8G8cXHyfazKlHqUO76Os eylUE+YOh0ZpfbtpztRwhXPm+Q4h3LbDHji1AP18= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd03.lss.emc.com u3TIDNIl002432 Received: from mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.19]) by maildlpprd04.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:12:30 -0400 Received: from MXHUB223.corp.emc.com (MXHUB223.corp.emc.com [10.253.68.93]) by mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id u3TIDCCw019042 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:13:12 -0400 Received: from MX104CL02.corp.emc.com ([169.254.8.9]) by MXHUB223.corp.emc.com ([10.253.68.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:13:12 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Thread-Topic: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues Thread-Index: AQHRnv7U/moQMoh1DEql91MhXTL0qp+a9ZYAgABZuQCAAAjlAIAAKlyAgAXE4LA= Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:13:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <571E716A.6050609@isi.edu> <571E94F3.2090505@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <571E94F3.2090505@isi.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.238.45.55] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D243277949362E98A772MX104CL02corpem_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues X-BeenThere: tsv-art@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Review Team List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:13:29 -0000 --_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D243277949362E98A772MX104CL02corpem_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've added my relevant suggestions from this thread. Thanks, --David From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 6:07 PM To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF; Black, David Cc: touch@isi.edu; tsv-art@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues Also, it might be good to consider reorganzing the list into some sort of t= axonomy. I had a draft of this sort of thing I had been preparing for TSV-A= REA at one point. Let me know if it would be useful to dig out. Joe On 4/25/2016 12:35 PM, Joe Touch wrote: FWIW - I added a handful of things this AM... Joe On 4/25/2016 12:03 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: Hi, David, On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David > wrote: Hi Spencer, Here are a few suggestions: -- Use of UDP I'd reference the rfc5405bis draft for which publication has been requested= in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added content (this shoul= d be "instead of RFC 5405" after IESG approval of the bis draft). There ar= e a lot of things in this draft that could be called out e.g., reinvention = of congestion control is strongly discouraged. Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis was so obvious that I fe= el like a moron for not updating the checklist to include it :-) Others? Spencer We now recognize "Controlled Environments" as restricted deployment/applica= bility scenarios where general Internet requirements (e.g., for congestion = control) may be relaxed under suitable (e.g., operator) control - see secti= on 3.6 of the rfc5405bis draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a= worked example. Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is subtle and requires design attention= - see RFC 6935 and 6936. Note that these two RFCs contain design requirem= ents, so it's insufficient to just normatively reference those two RFCs and= impose their requirements - an explanation of how the protocol design (for= zero UDP checksums with IPv6 meets those requirements is needed). RFC 751= 0 is also a worked example here, and its content on this topic is not short= . -- PDU Sizes I'd add a discussion of PMTUD and PLPMTUD, including noting that use of the= latter needs to include an explanation of how. Use of the former needs to= be cognizant of the general unreliability of ICMP Packet Too Big notificat= ions, especially when sent upstream from within a tunnel (may not propagate= across ingress). -- Multicast Many of the concerns may be exacerbated by multicast - perhaps someone who = spends more time on multicast than I do could come up with a short list of = things to watch out for. Thanks, --David From: Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins at IETF Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM To: tsv-art@ietf.org Subject: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues Dear TSV-ART, So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common TSV issues= the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get your feedback on the= current issues list, which is at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/= wiki/tsvdir-common-issues, before we send that out. If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, list, and let us know i= f you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great! Thanks, Spencer and Mirja _______________________________________________ Tsv-art mailing list Tsv-art@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art --_000_CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D243277949362E98A772MX104CL02corpem_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’ve added my relev= ant suggestions from this thread.

 <= /p>

Thanks, --David

 <= /p>

From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 6:07 PM
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF; Black, David
Cc: touch@isi.edu; tsv-art@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues

 

Also, it might be goo= d to consider reorganzing the list into some sort of taxonomy. I had a draf= t of this sort of thing I had been preparing for TSV-AREA at one point. Let= me know if it would be useful to dig out.

Joe

On 4/25/2016 12:35 PM, Joe Touch wrote:

FWIW - I added a hand= ful of things this AM...

Joe

On 4/25/2016 12:03 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote= :

Hi, David,

 

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Black, David <david.black@emc.com> wrote:

Hi Spencer,

 

Here are a few suggestions:=

 

-- Use of UDP

 

I’d reference the rfc5405bis draf= t for which publication has been requested in addition to RFC 5405, as it contains a lot of added content (this should be “instead of RF= C 5405” after IESG approval of the bis draft).  There are a lot = of things in this draft that could be called out e.g., reinvention of conge= stion control is strongly discouraged.

 

Thanks for the other suggestions, too, but 5405bis w= as so obvious that I feel like a moron for not updating the checklist to in= clude it :-)

 

Others?

 

Spencer

 

We now recognize “Controlled Envi= ronments” as restricted deployment/applicability scenarios where general Internet requirements (e.g., for congestion control) may be relaxe= d under suitable (e.g., operator) control - see section 3.6 of the rfc5405b= is draft for discussion and RFC 7510 (MPLS/UDP) for a worked example.

 

Use of zero UDP checksums with IPv6 is = subtle and requires design attention - see RFC 6935 and 6936.  Note that these two RFCs contain design requirements, so it’s insuff= icient to just normatively reference those two RFCs and impose their requir= ements - an explanation of how the protocol design (for zero UDP checksums = with IPv6 meets those requirements is needed).  RFC 7510 is also a worked example here, and its content on = this topic is not short.

 

-- PDU Sizes

 

I’d add a discussion of PMTUD and= PLPMTUD, including noting that use of the latter needs to include an explanation of how.  Use of the former needs to be cognizant of th= e general unreliability of ICMP Packet Too Big notifications, especially wh= en sent upstream from within a tunnel (may not propagate across ingress).

 

-- Multicast

 

Many of the concerns may be exacerbated= by multicast - perhaps someone who spends more time on multicast than I do could come up with a short list of things to watch out for.

 

Thanks, --David

 

From: Tsv-art [mailto:tsv-art-bounces@iet= f.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:29 AM
To: tsv-art@ie= tf.org
Subject: [Tsv-art] Common TSV issues

 

Dear TSV-ART,

 

So, Mirja and I would like to let the community know what common T= SV issues the TSV-ART will be looking for, and we'd like to get your feedba= ck on the current issues list, which is at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/tsv/trac/wiki/ts= vdir-common-issues, before we send that out.

 

If you could take a look at the current TSV issues, lis= t, and let us know if you think changes are needed by May 9, that would be great!

 

Thanks,

 

Spencer and Mirja

 




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