Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-01.txt

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:13:06 -0700

On Aug 9, 2005, at 9:36 PM, Daniel Senie wrote:

> Section 2.6: Please provide citations and statistics for the use of  
> NAT and RFC1918 in the delivery of ISP services. Though this is  
> talked about throughout this document, the practice is rare in at  
> least some regions. Hard data would lend credence to this claim.  
> Since this claim is used to justify many things in this document,  
> the lack of citations gives the appearance of a strawman construct.

While I don't have specific statistics, as this would require access  
ot a lot of networks and the NDAs that accompany such, I do know that  
the practice is common in Africa and parts of Asia. At one time,  
China Unicom (which last year delivered over a billion voice minutes  
using VoIP over an IP/ATM fiber backbone) used three layers of NATs,  
citing inability to obtain IPv4 addresses as the primary reason. They  
have since directly joined APNIC, I'm told, and may no longer do that.

---

From: "Eric Klein" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:34:16 +0300

> have since directly joined APNIC, I'm told, and may no longer do that.

I am not sure about all regions / nations, but I do know that in the
following countries (names withheld due to NDA) there are several companies
that are using NAT to separate internal private networks infrastructure and
management from the Publicly aces:

In the United States there are at least 4 fixed line phone companies, 2 long
distance, and 1 Utility company
In the UK there are at least 2 cellular and 2 fixed companies
In Israel there are at least 3 long distance, 2 cellular and the national
carrier
In the Netherlands there is one carrier

Eric

---

From: Kurt Erik Lindqvist <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:06:01 +0200

On 10 aug 2005, at 09.13, Fred Baker wrote:

>> Section 2.6: Please provide citations and statistics for the use  
>> of NAT and RFC1918 in the delivery of ISP services. Though this is  
> While I don't have specific statistics, as this would require  
> access ot a lot of networks and the NDAs that accompany such, I do  
> know that the practice is common in Africa and parts of Asia. At  
> one time, China Unicom (which last year delivered over a billion  
> voice minutes using VoIP over an IP/ATM fiber backbone) used three  
> layers of NATs, citing inability to obtain IPv4 addresses as the  
> primary reason. They have since directly joined APNIC, I'm told,  
> and may no longer do that.

I know of several European providers doing the same BTW.

- kurtis -