Subject: towards phasing out the 6bone

From: JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 14:10:19 +0900

(Not sure if the v6ops list is the appropriate forum for this topic,
but I cannot think of a better place)

Dear authors of RFC3701,

according to the RFC the 6bone prefix (3ffe::/16) will be phased out
on June 2006 and IPv6 routes that match the prefix may be filtered
thereafter.

However, there still seem to be a non-negligible number of 6bone
prefixes advertised in the global IPv6 Internet.  For example,
http://bgp.potaroo.net/v6/as1221/bgptable.txt
list 95 6bone prefixes exchanged via BGP (most of which seem pTLA
prefixes).

My question is: shouldn't the IETF take some action for smooth
phase-out, avoiding sudden disruption of running services?  For
example, shouldn't we send a reminder message about the phase-out plan
to the 6bone pTLA operators?  Or are we simply trusting the operators
to stop using the prefixes (and probably migrate to production
prefixes) by the deadline?

					JINMEI, Tatuya
					Communication Platform Lab.
					Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp.
					[email-masked]

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From: Robert Fink <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 22:29:15 -0800

Jinmei,

Your point is a valid one. I will start sending regular reminders to
the 6bone mail list on 1 Jan 06 and repeat them regularly till 6/6/06.

In spite of that, many nets will ignore these warnings and thus have
to take the consequences when all 3FFE routes are filtered out as of
6/6/06, and I guess that's just the way it will have to be.

Thanks,

Bob

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:14:17 +0000

will -ALL- 3ffe routes be filtered?  i don't  think
	this wil be the case.

--bill

---

From: Robert Fink <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:20:40 -0800

Bill,

Why wouldn't they; or am I overlooking something obvious?

Bob

===
On 12/26/05, [email-masked]

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:56:28 +0100

I know that always we can have someone that decide not to filter, but today
some are already filtering, so as many more decide to start filtering, more
unreliable will be to use a 6bone prefix, and no incentive for those few to
continue using it then. Is a kind of domino effect.

Furthermore, there is no reason today you can't switch already to a
production prefix, even in some RIRs at no cost if you are an IPv4
"customer" already.

Regards,
Jordi

> De: <[email-masked]>
> Responder a: <[email-masked]>
> Fecha: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:14:17 +0000
> Para: <[email-masked]>
> CC: JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 <[email-masked]>,
> <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Asunto: Re: towards phasing out the 6bone
> 
> 

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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:07:12 +0000

operational costs ... for one.  it is instructive to note
	that none of the RIRs make statements about routability or
	reachability of any delegated prefix -because- there is no
	single authority to mandate routing policy... that is strictly
	a local matter.  so statements such as "all 3ffe routes will
	be filtered on {date}..." strike me as naieve at best.
	Joining an RIR has its own set of costs, not all monetary.
	and contrary to Jordi's apparent assertion, it is not reasonable
	to "shop" RIRs looking for the best deal.  that said, i fully
	expect that all 3ffe:: space to disappear from the routing
	tables of those who filter it (and there are some today who
	filter it) and that number will get larger over the next six
	months.  But it will -NOT- go away on 06jun2006, despite the
	best efforts of the kind folks in the engineering community.
	(witness RIP as a fine example of the IETF depricating a 
	technology and the user community ignoring those recomendations :)

--bill

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:46:28 +0100

Hi Bill,

No, I didn't said that, at least was not my intend. Each LIR need to go for
their own RIR ! I was meaning that in general there is no extra cost
"because you need to pay for the production prefix", so in that regards,
keep using 6bone is not good neither rational.

Regards,
Jordi

> Fecha: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:07:12 +0000
> Para: <[email-masked]>
> CC: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, JINMEI
> Tatuya / 神明達哉 <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>,
> "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>

---

From: Daniel Roesen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:09:37 +0100

> 	will -ALL- 3ffe routes be filtered?  i don't  think

Sure. Why should there be any exception? I myself will definately filter
3ffe BGP _and_ packet source/destination at the edge. And I'm seeing at
least BGP filtering coming at some large IPv6 ISPs coming too.

Frankly, there is nothing of importance in it anymore anyway, so why
care at all?

Regards,
Daniel

-- 
CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: [email-masked] -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

---

From: "James Jun" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:46:51 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
> Of Daniel Roesen
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:10 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]; JINMEI Tatuya / ????????????; [email-masked];
> [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: towards phasing out the 6bone
> 

I already have heard from several ~large~ ASes planning to filter 3ffe::/16
on 6/6/06, and that also includes us..  3ffe should be added as a bogon
prefix too, IMHO.

James

---

From: Jeroen Massar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:46:56 +0100

> least BGP filtering coming at some large IPv6 ISPs coming too.

What Bill means to say that there will always be places that are too
lazy or simply won't act and thus will keep on using it, most of the
times because they do not know that they are using it and of course
because they simply don't care. He also tries to emphasize on "ALL"
because it is not everywhere. (99.9999 % is still not 100%)

But as most of the ISP's will filter it out anyway, the old 3ffe/6bone
space will become a nice walled garden for some people to play in which
has no use whatsoever except for the people still playing in it.
Fortunately many networks have moved along already and have made IPv6
full grown already, at least on the play factor. Now there still remain
quite a number of other things to tackle.

> Frankly, there is nothing of importance in it anymore anyway, so why

Not that I am aware of.

Greets,
 Jeroen

---

From: Daniel Roesen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:01:42 +0100

> because it is not everywhere. (99.9999 % is still not 100%)

I read it different: I guess he wants to imply that there will be
"special important folks who still use 3ffe as they can't get over the
legacy who are SO important that the 3ffe filters will make exceptions
for those special highly important folks".

I seriously doubt that there are any of even nearly that importance.
Can think of none.

Best regards,
Daniel