Subject: [v6ops] Title of draft-ietf-v6ops-v6-aaaa-whitelisting-implications-07

From: "Livingood, Jason" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:04:40 +0000

I'll be posting the -08 update tomorrow (list responses formally noting
the feedback accepted to follow tomorrow). The only open question I see is
on the title of the I-D - a question raised by Brian Carpenter below.

The current title is: Considerations for Transitioning Content to IPv6

Brian has proposed: Considerations for Content Provision during IPv4/IPv6
Coexistence

I have not seen other objections to the title or any other feedback since
Brian's email.

IMHO the current title is a bit simpler and I am inclined to keep it
as-is, unless I hear feedback to the contrary here. But I'm open to
whatever direction the WG wishes to go in.

- Jason

On 10/24/11 9:57 PM, "Brian E Carpenter" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>I have a slight quibble with the revised title. I understand why the
>title has been broadened, but it now claims a very wide scope:
>  Considerations for Transitioning Content to IPv6
>
>How about:
>  Considerations for Content Provision during IPv4/IPv6 Coexistence

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:26:52 +1300

I'm not going to insist. I do think the title overstates the
scope of the document somewhat; it is not a complete guide
to transitioning content.

Regards
   Brian

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:21:11 -0500

> to transitioning content.

I think it would be helpful to see the word "DNS" in the title
somewhere, since much of this document is related to DNS. Otherwise, I
agree the title is a bit broad.

How about something like:

            On Using the DNS for Transitioning Content to IPv6

Thomas

---

From: Doug Barton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:43:43 -0800

>             On Using the DNS for Transitioning Content to IPv6

If you're going to drag DNS into the title, I'd prefer something that
didn't imply that it's a protocol issue. How about, "DNS Access Control
Lists for Transitioning Content to IPv6." You can add a "Using" to the
beginning of that if you don't think it's too long. (Note, I
specifically rejected s/ACL/Whitelisting/ in order to avoid the
argument, no matter how silly I think the argument is, but I won't
object if you want to use it instead.)

hth,

Doug

-- 

		"We could put the whole Internet into a book."
		"Too practical."

	Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
	Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/

---

From: Lorenzo Colitti <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:36:56 +0900

> object if you want to use it instead.)

Please don't use the term access control list. We've been through that
argument already.

I agree with Brian that this document does not provide complete guidance to
a website operator that wants to enable IPv6. However, it deals with the
last stage in the transition to dual-stack, i.e., how to incrementally
enable access to web content that is already available over IPv6 (in the
sense that if a user knew the IPv6 address of the server and sent an HTTP
request, he would get a response). The focus on DNS is that given current
browser behaviour, the only tool for doing so is controlling which DNS
records are published.

---

From: Joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:34:47 -0800

On 11/23/11 18:36 , Lorenzo Colitti wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 03:43, Doug Barton <[email-masked]
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 

Agree, the selective or differential publication of resource records is
not an ACL, the term whitelisting is not inapropiate because the
prefixes contained in the whitelist are being approved for the reciept
of a(n) additional resource record.

> I agree with Brian that this document does not provide complete guidance
> to a website operator that wants to enable IPv6. However, it deals with
> the last stage in the transition to dual-stack, i.e., how to
> incrementally enable access to web content that is already available
> over IPv6 (in the sense that if a user knew the IPv6 address of the
> server and sent an HTTP request, he would get a response). The focus on
> DNS is that given current browser behaviour, the only tool for doing so
> is controlling which DNS records are published.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> v6ops mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops

---

From: Doug Barton <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:44:00 -0800

> Please don't use the term access control list. We've been through that

Seriously? Are we so far down the rabbit hole that calling something
what it actually is can't be tolerated?

> the last stage in the transition to dual-stack, 

No it doesn't. It offers one (bad) alternative to migrating, it's
certainly not a necessary step.

> i.e., how to

So what you're saying is that it's a list, that controls who gets access
to the IPv6 records? Interesting. :)

--

---

From: Lorenzo Colitti <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:59:30 +0900

> what it actually is can't be tolerated?

Ok, then let's repeat the argument. It is not an access control list
because it does not control access to a resource that the user is trying to
reach. The user is requesting a resource (e.g., a web page), and the
resource is available regardless of what protocol is used to transport
it. Just as Google does not hand out an IP addresses for datacenters in
Tokyo to users on the East coast because it would lead to bad performance.
Similarly, Google doesn't want to hand out AAAA records if doing so would
cause your connectivity to break.

> certainly not a necessary step.

And yet, major website operators like Google and Facebook are currently
doing it, and Akamai has publicly said they will be doing it. What should
they be doing instead? Publish AAAA records and if half a million users
can't reach their website and have no idea what's going on, then it's just
too bad?

> to the IPv6 records? Interesting. :)

It's a component in a system that tries to hand out the IP addresses that
will result in the best user experience.