Subject: [v6ops] When IPv6 breaks IPv4

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 18:26:10 +0200

There was a presentation at an IETF meeting in v6ops, about when people 
recommend to rather turn off IPv6 on some consumer electronics (Netgear 
was that?). The GUI was telling in red characters to rather turn off 
IPv6, instead of risking IPv4 not working either.

Today I had a similar experience.

The hardened Android tablet Aaeon by ASUS (described in 
AAEON_RTC-700B.PDF) has an Ethernet port which is great.  The Android 
GUI allows to set an IPv6 address in a field.  I put there "1::1" 
because it is very fast to type on a virtual keyboard.  After that, the 
Ethernet stopped working in IPv4 altogether.  Long press reboot button 
does not solve it.  There is no means to revert back, not possible to 
remove that IPv6 address.

Now I can throw out a window this tablet, for two reasons: neither IPv6 
is working, nor IPv4 is working.  There is no reset button, no 
documentation about 'cold reset' and there are are two batteries: one 
main and one backup.  The backup can be removed but the main is 
hardened.  I suspect that even if the main battery dies out the GUI 
config file containing that "1::1" will still be there for many years a 
writeable RAM lasts.

Worse, I did this in front of partner, in my good intentions to 
illustrate proof how IPv6 is so present everywhere already.

Next time I will be more moderate about my trust in IPv6 availability.

Alex

---

From: João Butzke <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 15:03:31 -0300

Thats a sad story, RIP TABLET.

Today we are having some issues with MikroTik, i updated the routers for 
the new version because of a winbox vulnerability and now ipv6 on my 
network is DEAD.

Some brands do not give the proper attention to IPv6 and things like 
that happen, very sadly.

Trying to solve wtf is happening.

Best Regards,
João Butzke.

Em 25/04/2018 13:26, Alexandre Petrescu escreveu:
> There was a presentation at an IETF meeting in v6ops, about when 
> people recommend to rather turn off IPv6 on some consumer electronics 
> (Netgear was that?).  The GUI was telling in red characters to rather 
> turn off IPv6, instead of risking IPv4 not working either.
>
> because it is very fast to type on a virtual keyboard.  After that, 
> the Ethernet stopped working in IPv4 altogether.  Long press reboot 
> button does not solve it. There is no means to revert back, not 
> possible to remove that IPv6 address.
>
> Now I can throw out a window this tablet, for two reasons: neither 
> IPv6 is working, nor IPv4 is working.  There is no reset button, no 
> config file containing that "1::1" will still be there for many years 
> a writeable RAM lasts.
>
> _______________________________________________
> v6ops mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops

---

From: Erik Kline <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 12:20:35 +0900

Stock Android does not support manually setting any IPv6 parameters whatsoever.

This means you were using some feature added by someone else.  Proper
integration with the rest of the platform may not have been easy.

On 26 April 2018 at 01:26, Alexandre Petrescu
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> recommend to rather turn off IPv6 on some consumer electronics (Netgear was
> that?).  The GUI was telling in red characters to rather turn off IPv6,
> instead of risking IPv4 not working either.
>
> The hardened Android tablet Aaeon by ASUS (described in AAEON_RTC-700B.PDF)
> has an Ethernet port which is great.  The Android GUI allows to set an IPv6
> address in a field.  I put there "1::1" because it is very fast to type on a
> virtual keyboard.  After that, the Ethernet stopped working in IPv4
> altogether.  Long press reboot button does not solve it.  There is no means
> to revert back, not possible to remove that IPv6 address.
>
> Now I can throw out a window this tablet, for two reasons: neither IPv6 is
> working, nor IPv4 is working.  There is no reset button, no documentation
> about 'cold reset' and there are are two batteries: one main and one backup.
> The backup can be removed but the main is hardened.  I suspect that even if
> the main battery dies out the GUI config file containing that "1::1" will
> still be there for many years a writeable RAM lasts.
>
> Worse, I did this in front of partner, in my good intentions to illustrate
> proof how IPv6 is so present everywhere already.
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:49:53 +0200

> Stock Android does not support manually setting any IPv6 parameters whatsoever.

That's a problem in first place :-)  Other OSs in the same class do 
support it.  If Android supported it (configure IPv6 address manually) 
then no-one else would have to add it.

> integration with the rest of the platform may not have been easy.

I agree.  Some feature of someone else would need to be addressed.

Alex

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:42:02 +0200

> Some brands do not give the proper attention to IPv6 and things like 

I agree with you.

I have a growing list with recent and innovative hardware equipment
(faster, smaller, new link layers, etc.) that does not support IPv6 at
all. Tablets, IoT devices, miniPCIe LTE interfaces, USB dongles... The
first thing these innovative devices support is IPv4. Otherwise it wont
sell.

Even us, at IETF, whenever we write a new hot Internet Draft we put it
on an IPv4 website first. (I guess datatracker is not reachable on IPv6,
just guess.)

I had this idea the other day to post an Internet Draft on an IPv6-only
website to see whether I miss an important feedback from IPv4-only readers.

Alex

---

From: Clark Gaylord <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:49:23 +0000

We do a fair amount of work with IoT type devices (connected vehicles and
such) and a point I make is if you are an IoT vendor and you aren't
thinking IPv6 *first*, you aren't serious about IoT. Without IPv6, there is
no IoT. I've never had them run right home and re-engineer their product,
but it does get them thinking about strategy. This is a message that as a
community we must consistently hammer.

FWIW we are seeing more awareness, if slowly, but it's still surprising how
many ostriches still have their head in the sand.

Clark

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 12:52:18 -0700

> On Apr 26, 2018, at 1:42 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

AFAIK, everything at ietf.org is dual stack; when I access ietf.org, data tracker.ietf.org, or tools.ietf.org, my browser tells me it is doing so using IPv6 (I just tested that using https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas and https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas). If you're having trouble with IPv6 access, send a note to [email-masked]. They will want a traceroute -6 from your location and will compare that to a traceroute -6 from their location, to pinpoint where the issue is.

Freds-MacBook-Pro:draft fred$ ping6 datatracker.ietf.org
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2600:8802:5600:1546::1054 --> 2001:1900:3001:11::2c
16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=0 hlim=56 time=28.271 ms
16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=1 hlim=56 time=26.735 ms
16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=2 hlim=56 time=24.013 ms
16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=3 hlim=56 time=24.815 ms
16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=4 hlim=56 time=24.410 ms
16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=5 hlim=56 time=26.602 ms
^C
--- ietf.org ping6 statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 6 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 24.013/25.808/28.271/1.512 ms

---

From: Jen Linkova <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 13:12:57 +1000

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:42 PM, Alexandre Petrescu
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> on an IPv4 website first.
Actually we we don't.

> (I guess datatracker is not reachable on IPv6,
> just guess.)

I've just completely disabled IPv4 on my workstation and
https://datatracker.ietf.org works just fine (I tested browsing the
drafts and some links on WG Chair dashboard).

-- 
SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:41:16 +0200

Le 26/04/2018 à 21:52, Fred Baker a écrit :
> [SECURITE : MISE EN QUARANTAINE DES PIECES JOINTES POTENTIELLEMENT
> DANGEREUSES]
> 
> Ce message contient des pieces jointes potentiellement dangereuses
> car susceptibles de contenir des virus. Pour lutter contre
> l'expansion de ce type d'attaque, les documents [null] ont ete
> retires du message original ci-dessous. Pour les documents Office, le
> CEA recommande l'usage exclusif des formats plus recents exempts de
> macros comme DOCX, XLSX, PPTX, merci de le signaler a votre
> expediteur.
> 
> Pour de plus amples informations ou pour connaitre les mecanismes de
> mise en quarantaine, vous pouvez vous rapprocher de votre service
> informatique ou consulter le site USCIpedia - rubrique PureMessage.
> 
> ----------------MESSAGE ORGINAL ci-dessous------------------
> 
> 
> 
>> Even us, at IETF, whenever we write a new hot Internet Draft we put
>> it on an IPv4 website first. (I guess datatracker is not reachable
>> on IPv6, just guess.)
> 
> AFAIK, everything at ietf.org is dual stack; when I access ietf.org,
> data tracker.ietf.org, or tools.ietf.org, my browser tells me it is
> doing so using IPv6

This is great, and I am happy it is that way.  I will check it myself 
soon form my lab (because Corporate network is not IPv6).

I meant the next step: v6ops Internet Draft available _only_ on IPv6 http.

Alex

  (I just tested that using
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas
> and
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-v6ops-transition-ipv4aas). If
> you're having trouble with IPv6 access, send a note to
> [email-masked]. They will want a traceroute -6 from your
> location and will compare that to a traceroute -6 from their
> location, to pinpoint where the issue is.
> 
> PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2600:8802:5600:1546::1054 -->
> 2001:1900:3001:11::2c 16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=0
> hlim=56 time=28.271 ms 16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c,
> icmp_seq=1 hlim=56 time=26.735 ms 16 bytes from
> 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=2 hlim=56 time=24.013 ms 16 bytes
> from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=3 hlim=56 time=24.815 ms 16
> bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=4 hlim=56 time=24.410 ms 
> 16 bytes from 2001:1900:3001:11::2c, icmp_seq=5 hlim=56 time=26.602
> ms ^C --- ietf.org ping6 statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6
> packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev =
> 24.013/25.808/28.271/1.512 ms
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 10:45:06 +0200

> drafts and some links on WG Chair dashboard).

I am happy you report so.  I will check it soon too.

But I meant this: disable IPv4 on https of datatracker for v6ops WG 
Internet Drafts:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=draft-ietf-v6ops&sort=&rfcs=on

In this way we mean that we really mean it.

Alex