Subject: Re: [vmeet] Meetecho suggestion for IETF-96 and beyond

From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 22:43:45 +0000

I suggest that dicussion of enhancements to meetecho and other virtual meeting tools at least cc the [email-masked] mailing list.

	Tony

On 4/8/16, 3:38 PM, "WGChairs on behalf of Derek Atkins" <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

>After spending the week trying to attend several WGs remotely this week, I
>have a couple things to say about it.
>
>First, thank you.  When the system worked, it worked well and I felt like
>I was almost in the room.  Also, a big Thank You also to the volunteers
>who channelled from jabber to the mic.
>
>However I do have a few suggestions for next time.
>
>My biggest beef was that I couldn't sign into the meetecho room until
>exactly when the meeting started.  But there was ALWAYS a delay to getting
>in, with all the page refreshes, having to login, copy-and-paste in my
>reg#, upload images, waiting for my browser to ask me to share my camera
>and mic, etc.  So for a 0900 meeting I usually couldn't get in until about
>0903-0905, often missing the introduction and sometimes even the agenda. 
>I would recommend you allow attendees to join the room up to 5 minutes
>prior to the actual meeting start.  E.g. for a 0900 meeting, allow sign-in
>to start at 0855.
>
>Similarly, at the end of the meeting there were times when the meeting ran
>long, or there was additional conversation going on.  But meetecho ended
>precisely when the meeting was scheduled to end.  I feel this was also a
>disservice and there should be some leeway at the end of the meeting. 
>E.g. if a meeting is scheduled to end at 1130, let the stream go to say
>1135 or 1145, or several minutes after the meeting actually ends (even if
>it's before or after the official end).
>
>Also, when there is a network transmission error, it could be nice to just
>refresh one stream instead of having to refresh the whole page (which
>would often require logging in again, killing the audio stream in the
>process).
>
>I'm happy to provide any other comments offline (or online) if you have
>questions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-derek
>
>-- 
>       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
>       [email-masked]             www.ihtfp.com
>       Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>

---

From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 22:44:08 +0000

There were some times I would have liked to be able to mute the audio in a session.

	Tony

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 01:40:31 -0400

First I'd like to say that the experience was certainly improved from
meetings past! I do have a couple suggestions for improving things even
further as well.

1) Turn off the camera [option?] when not needed. Staring the entire
time at the green camera on light, and the live video window with the
"not being published" text, I kept wishing I could turn the "big
brother" camera off until it was needed.

2) Perhaps an "I see you" indicator by the chair and/or some form of
ability to draw attention to the remote queue, beyond just queuing up.
Not sure best way to to do this, perhaps a small "mutable" flash or beep
option on the meetecho controller view, or maybe better a small person
at a mic graphic overlay on the bottom corner of the presentation
(i.e., like the cable TV logos)? There were at least a couple different
WGs where I queued up and the chairs unintentionally took a very long
time to notice. On the other hand I believe the chairs or the presenter,
would not have failed to notice someone standing at the mic. It was
obvious they were not intentionally doing this given that when they did
notice they "called" on me, asking the presenter to pause during their
presentation. This was one example where I definitely felt the
remoteness compared to being there in person. In person if I hadn't been
called by the presenter or chairs after during the appropriate time, I
would have sat back down. Remotely I felt frustrated as the appropriate
time to ask my clarifying question passed on by...

3) Slop time. Please allow for logging into the room before the actual
start time, as well as staying after.

4) Not having to sign the blue sheets at every entry to the group. More
than once I had to quit my browser and rejoin (or close the tab and rejoin,
etc), I noticed other people mentioning doing similar in the chat rooms.
It would be very nice not to be asked to sign the virtual blue sheets
each time I had to do this. If I already signed the blue sheet for that room
and I clicked "remember me" then it shouldn't ask me to fill anything out
again (name, reg number, note well click) just take be back to the room.

5) Switch from participant to observer. It seems like one could go the
other direction, but not return. My want for this feature though may be
mostly be driven by the want for #1 above. :)

6) Swap presentation and speaker video. Many times near the start of a
presentation I wanted to get a good look at the speaker then switch back
to the presentation. An option to swap the views would have worked
nicely for this.

Thanks again!
Chris.

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:35:50 -0300

> There were some times I would have liked to be able to mute the audio in a session.

In Firefox, whenever a page is making any sound, there will be speaker 
icon in the corresponding tab. You can click on the speaker icon to mute 
that tab (and click again to unmute). I suspect that Chrome may have a 
similar affordance for muting individual tabs.

/a

---

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:01:31 -0700

> similar affordance for muting individual tabs.

I'd never noticed that before, but tripped across it a day or two ago.

Quite nice!

d/

-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

---

From: Meetecho IETF support <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:16:49 +0200

> similar affordance for muting individual tabs.

Right. And you can also mute the audio from within the Meetecho UI: the 
"Alternative links" button (see 
http://ietf95.conf.meetecho.com/index.php/Remote_Participation#iconography), 
besides offering alternative audio streams (rtsp, rtmp, html5), also 
allows to pause/unpause the WebRTC audio. We will document this more 
clearly.

Cheers,
the Meetecho team

>
> /a
>
> _______________________________________________
> NOTE WELL: This list operates according to
> http://mipassoc.org/dkim/ietf-list-rules.html.
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vmeet

---

From: Martin J. Dürst <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:22:04 +0900

> I'd never noticed that before, but tripped across it a day or two ago.

As far as I know, it's a rather recent improvement. Much appreciated 
here, because I have a tendency to open many tabs, and (at least 
partially as a consequence of having that many tabs open) Firefox has a 
tendency to require frequent restarts, which often resulted in a 
cacophony of sounds that were difficult to identify and stop.

Regards,   Marti.n

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:20:49 -0400

> icon in the corresponding tab. You can click on the speaker icon to
    > mute that tab (and click again to unmute). I suspect that Chrome may
    > have a similar affordance for muting individual tabs.

It puts a speaker/camera icon in the tab, yes.
I seemed to remember a way to mute, but maybe that was ff.

Chrome didn't let me mute, but I could run meetecho in multiple tabs, and use
the meetecho stop-audio button.

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

---

From: Antoin Verschuren <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:18:09 +0200

> to the presentation. An option to swap the views would have worked

+1

I often found myself looking at a one slide presentation for a discussion, when the discussion or demonstration of the speaker was the actual thing to watch.
I tried to enlarge the tiny speaker video, but failed.

- --
Antoin Verschuren

Tweevoren 6, 5672 SB Nuenen, NL
M: +31 6 37682392