Subject: [VRRP] Minutes from IETF58th

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:19:20 -0600

Group,

Thanks to Karen for preparing good meeting minutes.

Let me know if anyone has any comments/correction.
I will submit the minutes for the proceedings on
Monday, 24th Nov.

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Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol WG (vrrp)
Thursday, November 13, 2003 at 0900-1130 in Rochester Room

Chairs:	
Mukesh Gupta [email-masked]
Radia Perlman [email-masked]

Minutes taken by Karen O'Donoghue.

The chairs provided a proposed agenda as follows:
Introduction and Review Agenda
VRRP MIB
Milestones/Plans
Current Drafts' status
VMACs vs ND
CARP (Common Address Redundancy Protocol)
Miscellaneous Issues

A discussion of the appropriate approach for the VRRP MIB was led 
by Kalyan Tata. He presented a summary of the arguments for maintaining 
a separate MIB for IPv4 and IPv6 or for merging the two MIBs into a 
single unified MIB for both. Bert Wijnen clarified a misunderstanding 
on the part of the working group on the meaning of deprecation and the 
impact on backward compatibility. The consensus of the room was to 
pursue the unified MIB approach. 

Mukesh Gupta discussed the current status of the working group efforts 
including milestones and current drafts. A revised list of milestones 
based on slight delays in current efforts was presented. VRRPv2 (for 
IPv4) is in the IESG review process with some minor clarifications being 
completed. VRRPv3 (for IPv6) needs to resolve the VMAC versus ND issue. 
The VRRP MIB draft needs resolution of the separated versus unified MIB 
approaches. With the completion of these remaining work items, the 
working group needs to consider where to go next. 

Mark Hollinger led a discussion of the issue of Neighbor Discovery (ND) 
versus Virtual  MAC (VMAC) for VRRPv3. He discussed the historical context 
of the use of VMAC. He also presented the advantages and disadvantages for 
using VMAC. A number of scenarios were presented along with the performance 
of VMAC in each scenario. Finally, a summary list of changes were proposed 
for the incorporation of ND into VRRPv3. Radia Perlman asked the room who 
wanted VMAC removed and who wanted ND used instead. Bob Hinden pointed out 
that a proper evaluation of the ND approach could not be without seeing 
the actual modifications to the document. Bob Hinden and Mark Hollinger 
agreed to discuss the details offline. A decision can only be made once a 
concrete proposal is on the table. 

Jun-ihiro itojun Hagino from the OpenBSD community presented the common 
address redundancy protocol (CARP). Points of contact for the effort 
include mcbride@openbsd and [email-masked]. The goal of the CARP 
effort is to have a protocol in this problem space that is completely 
patent-free. The CARP community has evaluated VRRP and believes both VRRP 
and CARP do not infringe on any HSRP claims. Bob Hinden questioned the 
validity of this analysis and whether or not Cisco would agree with that 
analysis. The primary technical differences between CARP and VRRP were 
summarized. The discussion evolved back to the topic of patents. Scott 
Bradner expressed a concern about the CARP community not having discussed 
their analysis with Cisco. Bob Hinden questioned the mechanics of the 
reliability mechanism used by CARP. The conclusion of the discussion was 
that an internet-draft needs to be prepared in order to seriously consider 
CARP in the context of this working group. 

The chairs asked if there were any additional topics from the floor. Mark 
Hollinger asked about the status of the subsecond work discussed at the 
Vienna IETF. Karen O'Donoghue admitted that she had not completed the 
draft on this issue in time for the draft cutoff. The routing AD indicated 
that the BFD (bi-directional forwarding) work being discussed in the routing 
area should be considered here as well. The routing AD agreed to forward the 
BFD material to the VRRP WG.

The meeting was adjourned.
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