From widex-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 06 05:26:59 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F63aE-0003hC-Vo; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 05:26:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F63aD-0003h1-Hh for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 05:26:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04713 for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 05:25:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F63mF-0003jm-5l for widex@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 05:39:24 -0500 Received: from [10.10.2.124] (expo111.palais-congres-paris.fr [212.155.202.111] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k16AWK0V019999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 04:33:14 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <45F40C8F-6669-41C7-909A-764B60B82D61@softarmor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: widex@ietf.org From: Dean Willis Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 04:26:54 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Widex] Agenda topics X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Vlad suggested we start the agenda discussion with the following: 1. Widex Requirements (20 min) - http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-widex-requirements-00.txt 2. Widex Framework (30 min) - http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stirbu-widex-framework-00.txt 3. Widex Sync Messages, discussion on alternatives (60 min): - W3C REX (draft should be public by IETF65) - IETF Simple, xml-patch-ops - XUpdate Does this look OK? Is there anything else we need to address? -- Dean _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 06 09:51:46 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F67iU-0002to-Do; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 09:51:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F67iT-0002sK-OJ for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 09:51:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24312 for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:49:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F67uX-0007t7-JW for widex@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:04:15 -0500 Received: from [10.10.2.124] (expo111.palais-congres-paris.fr [212.155.202.111] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k16EvnMZ021299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:57:58 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <45F40C8F-6669-41C7-909A-764B60B82D61@softarmor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <3ED5A17B-48AF-4E5E-A9AD-8DCDF97C54A7@softarmor.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dean Willis Subject: Re: [Widex] Agenda topics Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:51:29 -0600 To: Randy Fischer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org On Feb 6, 2006, at 7:44 AM, Randy Fischer wrote: > Hi Dean, All > > I've been trying to tune into the widex discussions, but > it seems that there's a lot going on off this list. > > Is there another list I should subscribe to? > None that I'm aware of. If you have something to discuss, please bring it up -- things have been a bit too quiet here for my tastes. On second thought, this does keep the administrative work minimal, so all you people talking on the list, please stop! Seriously, y'all (I can say that, I grew up in Texas), get involved! -- Dean _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 06 10:16:21 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F686H-0001zV-Hv; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:16:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F686F-0001yr-Gg for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:16:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA26171 for ; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail9.opentransfer.com ([69.6.255.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F68IH-0002An-Qe for widex@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:28:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 10562 invoked by uid 399); 6 Feb 2006 15:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (71.162.121.177) by mail.opentransfer.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2006 15:11:42 -0000 Message-ID: <43E7672D.2070707@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:11:41 -0500 From: Chaz Ginger User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Willis References: <45F40C8F-6669-41C7-909A-764B60B82D61@softarmor.com> In-Reply-To: <45F40C8F-6669-41C7-909A-764B60B82D61@softarmor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: widex@ietf.org Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there isn't a model for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? Also why the model where both the server and the renderer are behind the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of localized discovery? Chuck Wegrzyn _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 07:54:17 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6SML-0006bI-26; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 07:54:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6SMI-0006Zj-FS for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 07:54:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA22181 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 07:52:25 -0500 (EST) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6SYW-00073i-VH for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 08:06:55 -0500 Received: from mgw-ext04.nokia.com ([131.228.20.96]) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1F6SM5-0003KU-Nt for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 07:54:01 -0500 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext04.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k17CZ66M008818; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:35:08 +0200 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:35:17 +0200 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:35:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7233.31 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Widex] Widex Servers... Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:35:15 +0200 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E7EA@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <43E7672D.2070707@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Widex] Widex Servers... Thread-Index: AcYrOonIyoLM6syaQIyADA55gVbORwAp5PmA To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2006 12:35:14.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1EF1A60:01C62BE2] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org >-----Original Message----- >From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org]=20 >On Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >To: Dean Willis >Cc: widex@ietf.org >Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... > >>From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there=20 >isn't a model >for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? > We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be behind a NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not included in the scope of this document. >Also why the model where both the server and the renderer are=20 >behind the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of=20 >localized discovery? > Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized discovery. Vlad _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 09:05:28 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6TTE-0006NG-JZ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:05:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6TTC-0006Co-Bq for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:05:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA27893 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail9.opentransfer.com ([69.6.255.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6TfT-00012q-DE for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:18:08 -0500 Received: (qmail 9627 invoked by uid 399); 7 Feb 2006 14:03:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (71.162.121.161) by mail.opentransfer.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2006 14:03:21 -0000 Message-ID: <43E8A8A5.9040601@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:03:17 -0500 From: Chaz Ginger User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... References: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E7EA@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E7EA@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Vlad, Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind a firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of firewall. Am I missing something? Chuck Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >> To: Dean Willis >> Cc: widex@ietf.org >> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >> >> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >> isn't a model >> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >> >> > > We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be behind a NAT > device to be very common. For this reason it was not included in the > scope of this document. > > >> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer are >> behind the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of >> localized discovery? >> >> > > Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized discovery. > > Vlad > > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 09:42:07 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6U2h-00023F-7i; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:42:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6U2f-00021q-PD for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:42:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA00476 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:40:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail9.opentransfer.com ([69.6.255.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6UEw-0002EU-3t for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:54:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 26429 invoked by uid 399); 7 Feb 2006 14:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (71.162.121.161) by mail.opentransfer.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2006 14:39:44 -0000 Message-ID: <43E8B12F.1040208@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:39:43 -0500 From: Chaz Ginger User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... References: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E939@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E939@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Vlad, Perhaps you can explain to me how someone like Google, MSN or Yahoo would offer Widex based services? Are you thinking they would use a VPN? Chuck Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: > Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing the servers > directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex Renderer part of > the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already described in > the document. > > Vlad > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >> Cc: widex@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >> >> Vlad, >> >> Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind >> a firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. >> Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of >> firewall. Am I missing something? >> >> Chuck >> >> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>>> To: Dean Willis >>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>> >>>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>>> isn't a model >>>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be behind a >>> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not included in >>> the scope of this document. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer >>>> >> are behind >> >>>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of localized >>>> discovery? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized discovery. >>> >>> Vlad >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 10:27:28 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6Uka-0000bJ-Ja; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:27:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6UkY-0000Wo-MG for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:27:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03627 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 10:25:36 -0500 (EST) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext01.nokia.com ([131.228.20.93]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6Uwo-0003lY-O3 for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:40:08 -0500 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext01.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k17EDnxE024506; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:13:51 +0200 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:13:50 +0200 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:13:50 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7233.31 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Widex] Widex Servers... Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:13:49 +0200 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E939@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <43E8A8A5.9040601@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Widex] Widex Servers... Thread-Index: AcYr75ib8/7r84NYSCiD82208haOdAAADlyQ To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2006 14:13:50.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[B83F9D40:01C62BF0] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing the servers directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex Renderer part of the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already described in the document. Vlad >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com]=20 >Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >Cc: widex@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... > >Vlad, > > Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind=20 >a firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. =20 >Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of=20 >firewall. Am I missing something? > >Chuck > >Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>> To: Dean Willis >>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>> >>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>> isn't a model >>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>> >>> =20 >> >> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be behind a=20 >> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not included in=20 >> the scope of this document. >> >> =20 >>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer=20 >are behind=20 >>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of localized=20 >>> discovery? >>> >>> =20 >> >> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized discovery. >> >> Vlad >> >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 10:54:38 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6VAr-00040H-IJ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:54:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6VAq-0003z3-7G for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:54:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05963 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 10:52:54 -0500 (EST) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com ([131.228.20.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6VNF-0004p9-4y for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:07:26 -0500 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k17FsR2N003994; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:54:31 +0200 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:53:35 +0200 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:53:34 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7233.31 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Widex] Widex Servers... Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:53:35 +0200 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E9D9@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <43E8B12F.1040208@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Widex] Widex Servers... Thread-Index: AcYr9LFaL+bNrXwGTq2kxN8I8lwUKQACdpKg To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2006 15:53:34.0759 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6D96370:01C62BFE] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org It seems that I misunderstood your previous example... I thought that you were talking about Widex servers in corporate networks. So, for service providers like Google or Yahoo, the server front-end has a globally routable, public IP address (and/or FQDN), similar to section 4.1.2. Vlad=20 >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com]=20 >Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:40 >To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >Cc: widex@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... > >Vlad, > > Perhaps you can explain to me how someone like Google, MSN or=20 >Yahoo would offer Widex based services? Are you thinking they=20 >would use a VPN? > >Chuck > >Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing=20 >the servers=20 >> directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex=20 >Renderer part=20 >> of the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already=20 >> described in the document. >> >> Vlad >> >> =20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>> >>> Vlad, >>> >>> Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind a=20 >>> firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. >>> Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of=20 >>> firewall. Am I missing something? >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>> =20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >>>>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>>>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>>>> To: Dean Willis >>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>> >>>>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>>>> isn't a model >>>>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be=20 >behind a=20 >>>> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not=20 >included in=20 >>>> the scope of this document. >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer >>>>> =20 >>> are behind >>> =20 >>>>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of localized=20 >>>>> discovery? >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized discovery. >>>> >>>> Vlad >>>> >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> =20 >> >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 11:05:43 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6VLa-0000Mb-Pv; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:05:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6VLZ-0000MV-94 for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:05:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06802 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:03:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail9.opentransfer.com ([69.6.255.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6VXz-0005CY-Hh for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:18:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 4499 invoked by uid 399); 7 Feb 2006 16:03:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (71.162.121.161) by mail.opentransfer.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2006 16:03:17 -0000 Message-ID: <43E8C4C4.1020401@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:03:16 -0500 From: Chaz Ginger User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... References: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E9D9@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E9D9@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Vlad, We are back at the beginning. Having run a number of "public" sites I can say with some amount of certainty that they are behind NATs. I am sure there are some webservers (well Widex servers in this case) that sit directly on the IP network, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Chuck Wegrzyn Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: > It seems that I misunderstood your previous example... I thought that > you were talking about Widex servers in corporate networks. So, for > service providers like Google or Yahoo, the server front-end has a > globally routable, public IP address (and/or FQDN), similar to section > 4.1.2. > > Vlad > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:40 >> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >> Cc: widex@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >> >> Vlad, >> >> Perhaps you can explain to me how someone like Google, MSN or >> Yahoo would offer Widex based services? Are you thinking they >> would use a VPN? >> >> Chuck >> >> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> >>> Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing >>> >> the servers >> >>> directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex >>> >> Renderer part >> >>> of the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already >>> described in the document. >>> >>> Vlad >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >>>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>> >>>> Vlad, >>>> >>>> Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind a >>>> firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. >>>> Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of >>>> firewall. Am I missing something? >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>>>>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>>>>> To: Dean Willis >>>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>>> >>>>>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>>>>> isn't a model >>>>>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be >>>>> >> behind a >> >>>>> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not >>>>> >> included in >> >>>>> the scope of this document. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> are behind >>>> >>>> >>>>>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of localized >>>>>> discovery? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized discovery. >>>>> >>>>> Vlad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 11:40:49 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6VtY-0005al-RQ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:40:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6VtV-0005Vj-Nc for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:40:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09077 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:39:03 -0500 (EST) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com ([131.228.20.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6W5v-0006HC-48 for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:53:36 -0500 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k17GefJp014652; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 18:40:42 +0200 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 18:40:31 +0200 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Feb 2006 18:40:32 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7233.31 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Widex] Widex Servers... Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 18:40:30 +0200 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E9F6@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <43E8C4C4.1020401@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Widex] Widex Servers... Thread-Index: AcYsAFprwPndnLOBRgSMCVsKYw109QAAke6Q To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2006 16:40:32.0082 (UTC) FILETIME=[361AC320:01C62C05] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed806e2f53ff1a061ad4f97e00345ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org But does the client/renderer communicate directly with the server or via a proxy/gateway (even if the client is not aware of the proxy)? Vlad >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com]=20 >Sent: 07 February, 2006 18:03 >To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >Cc: widex@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... > >Vlad, > > We are back at the beginning. Having run a number of=20 >"public" sites I can say with some amount of certainty that=20 >they are behind NATs. I am sure there are some webservers=20 >(well Widex servers in this case) that sit directly on the IP=20 >network, but they are the exception rather than the rule.=20 > >Chuck Wegrzyn > > >Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> It seems that I misunderstood your previous example... I=20 >thought that=20 >> you were talking about Widex servers in corporate networks. So, for=20 >> service providers like Google or Yahoo, the server front-end has a=20 >> globally routable, public IP address (and/or FQDN), similar=20 >to section=20 >> 4.1.2. >> >> Vlad >> >> =20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:40 >>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>> >>> Vlad, >>> >>> Perhaps you can explain to me how someone like Google, MSN or Yahoo=20 >>> would offer Widex based services? Are you thinking they would use a=20 >>> VPN? >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>> =20 >>>> Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing >>>> =20 >>> the servers >>> =20 >>>> directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex >>>> =20 >>> Renderer part >>> =20 >>>> of the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already=20 >>>> described in the document. >>>> >>>> Vlad >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >>>>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>> >>>>> Vlad, >>>>> >>>>> Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind a=20 >>>>> firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. >>>>> Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of=20 >>>>> firewall. Am I missing something? >>>>> >>>>> Chuck >>>>> >>>>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >>>>>>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>>>>>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>>>>>> To: Dean Willis >>>>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>>>>>> isn't a model >>>>>>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be >>>>>> =20 >>> behind a >>> =20 >>>>>> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not >>>>>> =20 >>> included in >>> =20 >>>>>> the scope of this document. >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>> are behind >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of=20 >localized=20 >>>>>>> discovery? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized=20 >discovery. >>>>>> >>>>>> Vlad >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> =20 >> >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 07 12:19:44 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6WTI-00009A-4u; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:17:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6WTG-00007h-VJ for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:17:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13130 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail9.opentransfer.com ([69.6.255.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6WfV-0007wi-DJ for widex@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:30:23 -0500 Received: (qmail 23943 invoked by uid 399); 7 Feb 2006 17:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (71.162.121.161) by mail.opentransfer.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2006 17:15:19 -0000 Message-ID: <43E8D5A5.6020000@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:15:17 -0500 From: Chaz Ginger User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... References: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E9F6@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01A6E9F6@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Vlad, it will do port forwarding or rewrite the entire dest. IP address (depending on the NAT). The client may or may not have a NAT or proxy, depending. Chuck Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: > But does the client/renderer communicate directly with the server or via > a proxy/gateway (even if the client is not aware of the proxy)? > > Vlad > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >> Sent: 07 February, 2006 18:03 >> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >> Cc: widex@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >> >> Vlad, >> >> We are back at the beginning. Having run a number of >> "public" sites I can say with some amount of certainty that >> they are behind NATs. I am sure there are some webservers >> (well Widex servers in this case) that sit directly on the IP >> network, but they are the exception rather than the rule. >> >> Chuck Wegrzyn >> >> >> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> >>> It seems that I misunderstood your previous example... I >>> >> thought that >> >>> you were talking about Widex servers in corporate networks. So, for >>> service providers like Google or Yahoo, the server front-end has a >>> globally routable, public IP address (and/or FQDN), similar >>> >> to section >> >>> 4.1.2. >>> >>> Vlad >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:40 >>>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>> >>>> Vlad, >>>> >>>> Perhaps you can explain to me how someone like Google, MSN or Yahoo >>>> would offer Widex based services? Are you thinking they would use a >>>> VPN? >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing >>>>> >>>>> >>>> the servers >>>> >>>> >>>>> directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Renderer part >>>> >>>> >>>>> of the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already >>>>> described in the document. >>>>> >>>>> Vlad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >>>>>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>>> >>>>>> Vlad, >>>>>> >>>>>> Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind a >>>>>> firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. >>>>>> Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of >>>>>> firewall. Am I missing something? >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> >>>>>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>>>>>>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>>>>>>> To: Dean Willis >>>>>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>>>>>>> isn't a model >>>>>>>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> behind a >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> included in >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> the scope of this document. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> are behind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of >>>>>>>> >> localized >> >>>>>>>> discovery? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized >>>>>>> >> discovery. >> >>>>>>> Vlad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex From widex-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 08 04:34:52 2006 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6lit-0005En-R0; Wed, 08 Feb 2006 04:34:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1F6lis-0005DN-Lt for widex@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2006 04:34:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03887 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 04:33:08 -0500 (EST) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com ([131.228.20.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F6lvR-0004h3-L7 for widex@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2006 04:47:50 -0500 Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k189HLYN022477; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:17:24 +0200 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:17:22 +0200 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:17:23 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7233.31 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Widex] Widex Servers... Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:17:20 +0200 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B01AA84A4@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <43E8D5A5.6020000@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Widex] Widex Servers... Thread-Index: AcYsCns5YJIp4iyRR4aQiYHkmCrDSwAf0WwQ To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2006 09:17:23.0286 (UTC) FILETIME=[785C3760:01C62C90] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: widex@ietf.org X-BeenThere: widex@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working list for the WIDEX working group at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: widex-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: widex-bounces@ietf.org Chuck, When we wrote the NAT considerations the main criteria was to indicate that NATs can have some effects on one or more Widex components (see Widex framework); we didn't meant this draft to include all scenarios where NAT boxes can be envolved or deployed. It would be useful to get more information, why he would like to see such scenario addressed. So, in order to better understand the relation beteen the NAT device and the Widex in your case I'd like to ask you these questions: 1. Which entity is creating or managing these port mapping/forwarding? 2. What is its relationship with the Widex components, e.g. is the management done by a Widex component? If yes, which? 3. Is this a specific Widex problem or is a generic problem? 4. Is the work adressed in a more generic way in some other activities, e.g. Rserpool WG http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/rserpool-charter.html? Thanks, Vlad >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com]=20 >Sent: 07 February, 2006 19:15 >To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >Cc: widex@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... > >Vlad, it will do port forwarding or rewrite the entire dest.=20 >IP address (depending on the NAT). The client may or may not=20 >have a NAT or proxy, depending. > >Chuck > >Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >> But does the client/renderer communicate directly with the server or=20 >> via a proxy/gateway (even if the client is not aware of the proxy)? >> >> Vlad >> >> =20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 18:03 >>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>> >>> Vlad, >>> >>> We are back at the beginning. Having run a number of=20 >"public" sites=20 >>> I can say with some amount of certainty that they are=20 >behind NATs. I=20 >>> am sure there are some webservers (well Widex servers in this case)=20 >>> that sit directly on the IP network, but they are the exception=20 >>> rather than the rule. >>> >>> Chuck Wegrzyn >>> >>> >>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>> =20 >>>> It seems that I misunderstood your previous example... I >>>> =20 >>> thought that >>> =20 >>>> you were talking about Widex servers in corporate=20 >networks. So, for=20 >>>> service providers like Google or Yahoo, the server front-end has a=20 >>>> globally routable, public IP address (and/or FQDN), similar >>>> =20 >>> to section >>> =20 >>>> 4.1.2. >>>> >>>> Vlad >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:40 >>>>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>> >>>>> Vlad, >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps you can explain to me how someone like Google,=20 >MSN or Yahoo=20 >>>>> would offer Widex based services? Are you thinking they=20 >would use a=20 >>>>> VPN? >>>>> >>>>> Chuck >>>>> >>>>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>> Yes, but in most of those scenarios you are not accessing >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>> the servers >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>> directly but through some kind of VPN, making the Widex >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>> Renderer part >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>> of the same network as the Widex Server, case which is already=20 >>>>>> described in the document. >>>>>> >>>>>> Vlad >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: ext Chaz Ginger [mailto:eprparadocs@gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: 07 February, 2006 16:03 >>>>>>> To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >>>>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vlad, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why wouldn't you include the case of the Widex server behind a=20 >>>>>>> firewall? I would expect that to be the most common case. >>>>>>> Most companies that I know and work for all use some sort of=20 >>>>>>> firewall. Am I missing something? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com wrote: >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: widex-bounces@ietf.org=20 >[mailto:widex-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ext Chaz Ginger >>>>>>>>> Sent: 06 February, 2006 17:12 >>>>>>>>> To: Dean Willis >>>>>>>>> Cc: widex@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Widex] Widex Servers... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >From looking at the requirement docs I noticed that there >>>>>>>>> isn't a model >>>>>>>>> for a Widex Server behind a NAT. Why? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> We haven't considered the case when the Widex Server to be >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>> behind a >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> NAT device to be very common. For this reason it was not >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>> included in >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> the scope of this document. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> Also why the model where both the server and the renderer >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> are behind >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> the NAT? Is this specifically to address the notion of >>>>>>>>> =20 >>> localized >>> =20 >>>>>>>>> discovery? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> Yes, this scenario is specifically related to localized >>>>>>>> =20 >>> discovery. >>> =20 >>>>>>>> Vlad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> =20 >> >> >> =20 > > _______________________________________________ Widex mailing list Widex@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/widex