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1FhqN3-0004Gc-6x; Sun, 21 May 2006 12:01:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FhqN1-0004GW-Ba for 6lowpan@ietf.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 12:01:31 -0400 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.170]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FhqN0-0003tf-Rh for 6lowpan@ietf.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 12:01:31 -0400 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m3so1116102uge for <6lowpan@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 May 2006 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RpPLpLtUYmKHih8VBwSNdYdUwp/R+Lhhqd8hHa/dwtRAdeRGjupZ0N8ZPN1kvQ60gb16hzeygHseW76a4TDRxwfcazqPE4KW6Cjb4eIugHOiA1N/DzQEgnmdDHL6qzBHGMulaTzMzMTILY6nk1jPGo6KQGR3T+T/xKg4lKofGDo= Received: by 10.66.6.29 with SMTP id 29mr3015172ugf; Sun, 21 May 2006 09:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.14 with HTTP; Sun, 21 May 2006 09:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374005f30605210901x2b13d378k8c92fcc384172e98@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 09:01:27 -0700 From: "Ian Chakeres" To: "Mario Mao" , 6lowpan@ietf.org Subject: Re: [6lowpan] Comments about the use of Multicast Ability In-Reply-To: <001d01c67c02$2d238840$7fc0a8c0@netlab.cs.ecnu.edu.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <001d01c67c02$2d238840$7fc0a8c0@netlab.cs.ecnu.edu.cn> X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 Cc: X-BeenThere: 6lowpan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working group discussion for IPv6 over LowPan networks <6lowpan.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: 6lowpan-bounces@ietf.org I think that a protocol like SMF (draft-ietf-manet-smf-02.txt) for non-group based simple multicast would be appropriate for 6lowpan. The SMF draft deals mainly with duplicate packet detection (DPD). Though it should be used in conjunction with another algorithm to determine an optimized relay set. That brings me to another point, to support mutlicast I think the adaptation layer should have a sequence number for multicast packets. This will be used to detect duplicate packets. SMF defines a IPv6 hop by hop option to assist DPD, this field should be integrated into the shim layer. Ian Chakeres On 5/20/06, Mario Mao wrote: > > > Hi all: > There is some comments about recently introduced Multicast ability. > > I have read Format-02 document and the Carsten's mail about addressin= g > map > for 16-bit addresses. I think it is a good solution for the address > confusion problem. > However, looks like there needs other precondition to make Multicast work > properly > and effectively in 6LowPAN. > > First condition is the MAC filter, as I mentioned in last mail, IEEE > 802.15.4 > MAC can't fliter Multicast frame, the reception and rejection algorithm = are > descripted > as bellow in specification: > - If a destination PAN identifier is included in the frame, it shall matc= h > macPANId or > shall be the broadcast PAN identifier (0 x ffff). > - If a short destination address is included in the frame, it shall match > either > macShortAddress or the broadcast address (0 x ffff). Otherwise, if an > extended > destination address is included in the frame, it shall match > aExtendedAddress. > According to this algorithm, when the MAC layer of some 802.15.4 node > receive > a frame with Multicast destination address, how will it judge the frame > should be > handled but not be discarded? For 802.15.4 MAC PIB could just hold one > 64-bits > EUI-64 address and one 16-bits short address(for node's unicast address), > may be > the only way to get Multicast frame is to set the MAC sublayer to > promiscuous mode. > By doing this job, Adaptation Layer could get all of frame arrived in MAC > sublayer > and filter what it want by itself, including Multicast frame. > Unfortunately, the solution for the previous problem also cause anoth= er > problem. > That is how to foward the Multicast frame to right destinations(group > members). The > document "6LoWPAN Meeting 65 IETF Dallas Format Document changes" > mentioned following possible method: dumb flooding, controlled flooding a= nd > unicasting > to the PAN COORDINATOR. As my understanding, all three above still need > 802.15.4 MAC broadcast and Adapatation Layer broadcast flooding relay to > make > all possible receiver get Multicast frame. The requirement of Adapatation > Layer > broadcast flooding relay is because not all of 802.15.4 node will be in t= he > broadcast > range of the sender in Mesh Topology, unlike in Ethernet. So, maybe we > should need > an Adaptation Multicast Route Potocol(like PIM-SM in Internet) to build a > Multicast > Tree when some node join some Multicast group. After the Multicast tree h= as > been > built, node in the tree will know where are the group members in and how = to > forward > Multicast frame to them. > In the matter of fact, we could also use the special Multicast addres= s > in a much > simple way, that is just make Adaptation Layer be a Multicast frame filte= r. > In this way, > IPv6 Layer will tell Adaptation Layer which Multicast group it has joined= , > and > Adaptation Layer will discard the frame not belong to these groups before > handing it > to IP Layer. However, if we want the sepcial Multicast address really do > some work, > controlled forwarding in Multicast Tree may be necessary. Otherwise, node > will fill > Multicast MAC address in Adaptation or MAC header but could only broadcas= t > Multicast frame to all the node in the PAN. > > Actually, I think 6LowPANers will find a good way to solve the multic= ast > problem > eventually. But what I want to say is does it worth? For 802.15.4 MAC don= 't > support > multicast, we have to do all the work in Adaptation Layer. In LowPAN node= , > resource > is limited(except energy, memory for code is tight either). If we make th= e > protocol > more complex, more code space will be needed. Take the platform we are us= ing > as an > example, the Freescale MC9S08GB60 MCU has 60K Flash for code, hardware > driver and 802.15.4 MAC library(supplied by Freescale) will take at least > 33K, > current Adaptation Layer will take about 12K(including Route and Topology > Maintenance), > this means only 15K is left for IPv6, NDP and up-layer. For our lab has > implemented > an IPv6/IPv4 dual protocol stack in ARM platform before, we consider 15K > code > space is very tight for a reduced IPv6 stack. The point is, if we could j= ust > use MAC > broadcast to let IP Multicast work well, why not just do it? If we add mo= re > and more > function to Adaptation Layer, I really worry about a low power and low co= st > device > having the ability to run it. > > Thanks. > > Regards, > > Mario Mao > _______________________________________________ > 6lowpan mailing list > 6lowpan@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowpan > > > _______________________________________________ 6lowpan mailing list 6lowpan@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowpan From 6lowpan-bounces@ietf.org Sun May 21 22:25:01 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fi06K-0002lf-7D; Sun, 21 May 2006 22:24:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fi06I-0002eM-Dm for 6lowpan@ietf.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 22:24:54 -0400 Received: from m12-16.163.com ([220.181.12.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fi060-000643-Kt for 6lowpan@ietf.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 22:24:54 -0400 Received: from xxxyyyzzz (unknown [202.112.146.33]) by smtp9 (Coremail) with SMTP id wKjAECfAqRrKIHFE80JeGg==.58337S2; Mon, 22 May 2006 10:24:11 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 10:26:07 +0800 From: "=?gb2312?B?26zLpw==?=" To: "6lowpan" <6lowpan@ietf.org> X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <447120CC.118CC8.24853> X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: [6lowpan] comments about the header compression of ipv6 in format-02 X-BeenThere: 6lowpan@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Working group discussion for IPv6 over LowPan networks <6lowpan.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2000795566==" Errors-To: 6lowpan-bounces@ietf.org --===============2000795566== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsOg0KDQogIEluIEZvcm1hdC0wMixpdCBpcyBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgaG9wbGlt aXQgaW4gaXB2NiBoZWFkZXIgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHRyZWF0ZWQgYXMgbm9uLWNvbXByZXNzZWQgZmll bGQuIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBieXRlLHRoYXQgaXMgdG8gc2F5LHRoZSBob3BsaW1pdCBjYW4gYWxz byBiZSBjb21wcmVzc2VkLg0KDQogIFRoZSByZWFzb24gaXMgYXMgZm9sbG93czoNCg0KICBJbiBG b3JtYXQtMDIsIGFkYXB0YXRpb24gbGF5ZXIgaXMgdXNlZCB0byBmaW5kIHJvdXRlIGFuZCBzZW5k IHBhY2tldC5JbiB0aGUgbWVzaCBkZWxpZXZlcnkgZnJhbWUsIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgImhvcHMgbGVm dCIgZmllbGQgd2hpY2ggaXMgZGVjcmVhc2VkIGJ5IG9uZSB3aGVuIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgcGFzc2Vz IG9uZSByb3V0ZXIuIEhlbmNlLHdlIGNhbiB1c2UgdGhlICJob3BzIGxlZnQiIGluIG1lc2ggZGVs aWV2ZXJ5IGZyYW1lIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgdGhlIGhvcGxpbWl0IGluIHRoZSBpcHY2IGhlYWRlci4g DQogIEFuZCBpZiB3ZSBjb21wcmVzcyB0aGUgaG9wbGltaXQsIGhvdyBjYW4gaXQgYmUgb2J0YWlu ZWQgYXQgdGhlIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIG5vZGU/IHdlIGNhbiB1c2UgdGhlIGlkZWEgb2YgdHVubmVs IGZvciByZWZlcmVuY2UuICBCZWZvcmUgc2VuZGluZyBhIGlwdjYgY29tcHJlc3NlZCBwYWNrZXQs d2UgY2FuIGdldCB0aGUgaG9wbGltaXQgb3V0LCBhbmQgcHV0IGl0cyB2YWx1ZSB0byB0aGUgImhv cHMgbGVmdCIgIGluIG1lc2ggZGVsaXZlcnkgZmllbGQsIHRoZW4sd2UgbmVlZG4ndCB0cmFuc2Zl ciB0aGUgaG9wbGltaXQgYW55IGxvbmdlciB3aGVuIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgaXMgcm91dGVkLiBBbmQg YXQgdGhlIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIG5vZGUgLHdoZW4gd2Ugd2FudCB0byB1c2UgdGhlIGhvcGxpbWl0 LCB3ZSBjYW4gZ2V0IHRoZSAiaG9wcyBsZWZ0IiB2YWx1ZSBpbiBtZXNoIGRlbGl2ZXJ5IGZpZWxk IG91dCxhbmQgcHV0IGl0cyB2YWx1ZSB0byB0aGUgaG9wbGltaXQuSW4gdGhpcyB3YXksd2UgY2Fu IGNvbXByZXNzIHRoZSBob3BsaW1pdC4gICAgIA0KICBUaGVyZWZvcmUsdGhlIGlwdjYgaGVhZGVy IGNhbiBiZSBjb21wcmVzc2VkIHRvIG9ubHkgb25lIG9jdGV0Lg0KICANCiAgSXQncyBub3RlZCB0 aGF0IHRoZSBsZW5ndGggb2YgaG9wbGltaXQgaW4gaXB2NiBoZWFkZXIgaXMgOGJpdHMsIHRoZSBs ZW5ndGggb2YgaG9wIGxlZnQgIGluIG1lc2ggZGVsaXZlcnkgZmllbGQgaXMgNmJpdHMuIEhlcmUg d2UgY2FuIGFzc3VtZSB0aGF0IDYgYml0cyBob3BsaW1pdCBpcyBlbm91Z2ggaW4gNmxvd3Bhbi4g IA0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNvcHkgaG9wbGltaXQgdG8gaG9wc2xlZnQgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgY29weSBob3BzbGVmdCB0byBob3BsaW1pdA0Kb3JpZ2luIHBhY2tldC0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLT5jb21wcmVzc2VkIHBhY2tldC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tPm9yaWdpbiBwYWNrZXQNCg0KICAgQW55IGNvbW1lbnRzIGlzIHdlbGNvbWUuIA0KHAkNCiBU aGFua3MuIA0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoUdhbyBTaHVhaQ0KCQkJCQ0KCQkJ CWdzeGxoQDE2My5jb20NCqGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhMjAwNi0wNS0yMg0K --===============2000795566== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ 6lowpan mailing list 6lowpan@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6lowpan --===============2000795566==--