Subject: [6tisch] minutes 6TiSCH WG meeting IETF90 Toronto 21 July 2014

From: Thomas Watteyne <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 17:35:38 -0700

All,

You will find the minutes of the 6TiSCH WG meeting at IETF90 Toronto at:
- (rendered)
https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/wiki/140721b_ietf90_toronto
- (text) http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/minutes/minutes-90-6tisch

Also copy-pasted below.

Thanks to Xavi Vilajosana and Pouria Zand for taking notes on Etherpad, and
to Michael Richardson and Ines Robles for being Jabber scribes!

As usual, please fix anything we might have missed directly in the e-mail
and reply. The final version of the minutes are due 2014-09-05.

Thomas

-----

Minutes IETF 90 WG meeting, 21 July 2014, 6TiSCH WG

Note: timestamps in EDT.
Information

Meeting        :   IETF 90 Monday, 21 July 2014Time           :
1520-1650 EDT Monday Afternoon Session II (90min)Location       :
Territories room, Fairmont Royal York Hotel, Toronto, CanadaChairs
    :   Pascal Thubert <[email-masked]>
                   Thomas Watteyne
<[email-masked]>Responsible AD :   Ted Lemon
<[email-masked]>URLs           :
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/6tisch/
                   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/6tisch/
                   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch
                   https://bitbucket.org/6tisch

Summary

The 6TiSCH meeting was held on Monday at 3PM, following a very successful
6TiSCH/6lo/ROLL PlugFest held on Sunday morning.

The PlugFest demonstrated implementations of the current 6TiSCH WG
documents, as well as the Flow Label work at ROLL and the SNMP work at 6lo.
Operational code as well as sniffers, embedded operating systems,
large-scale test environments and wireshark dissectors were demonstrated
using open source and commercial implementations.

The 6TiSCH working group provided a status of the current WG documents, and
the progress on milestones. The WG is in line with plans, except maybe for
the security part of the architecture, which is probably not mature enough
for secdir pre-review in fall as previously suggested. The most interesting
new element is the security work which will complement the architecture
document, in particular w.r.t. the join process
(draft-struik-6tisch-security-architecture-elements and
draft-richardson-6tisch--security-6top). This work should end up merged
into the 6TiSCH architecture.

The PlugFest and progress on non-WG docs that are clearly in the path for
recharter work were also presented.

Scribes

Etherpad (http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-90-6tisch)

   - Xavi Vilajosana
   - Pouria Zand

 Jabber (xmpp:[email-masked])

   - Michael Richardson
   - Ines Robles

Resources, Recordings and Logs whatwhere Wiki
https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/wiki/140721b_ietf90_toronto Presented
Slides
https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/meetings/src/master/140721_ietf90_toronto/00-6tisch_ietf90_toronto.ppt
Audio
Recording
http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf90/ietf90-territories-20140721-1520-pm2.mp3 [mp3,
41MB] Meetecho Recording
http://recordings.conf.meetecho.com/Playout/watch.jsp?recording=IETF90_6TISCH&chapter=chapter_0
Jabber
Logs http://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/6tisch/2014-07-21.html Agenda

See https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/90/agenda/6tisch/.

Intro and Status                                   [5min]  (Chairs)
    Note-Well, Blue Sheets, Scribes, Agenda Bashing    6TiSCH milestones recap
Chartered Drafts                                  [50min]
    * <draft-ietf-6tisch-terminology-02>
<draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-03>         (10min)  (Pascal Thubert)
  * <draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-02>              (10min)  (Xavi
Vilajosana)    * <draft-ietf-6tisch-6top-interface-01>
<draft-wang-6tisch-6top-sublayer-01>        (10min)  (Qin Wang)    *
<draft-struik-6tisch-security-architecture-elements-00> (Rene Struik,
    <draft-richardson-6tisch--security-6top-01> (20min)   Michael
Richardson)
Report on plugfest                                [10min]
    * overview and goals                           (3min)  (Ines
Robles)    * presentation of outcome                      (7min)
<participants>
Unchartered drafts if time permits                [20min]
    * <draft-wang-6tisch-6top-coapie-00>          (10min)  (Qin Wang)
  * <draft-dujovne-6tisch-on-the-fly-03>        (10min)  (Nicola
Accettura)
Any Other Business                                 [5min]

Minutes

   - *[15.20]* Meeting starts

   About 60 people in the room.

   - *[15.20]* Intro and Status (*Thomas Watteyne*)
      - Remind the Note Well
      - Minutes are taken
      - blue sheets
      - 90min session
      - Objectives:
         - Third WG meeting
         - Report on progress on WG docs,
         - Report on progress around security
         - Report on second 6TiSCH plugfest
         - Explore unchartered draft and on-going work
      - comments on agenda?

      No issues raised. Agenda approved.

      - Reminder milestones
         - on time with all milestones, except one
         - will slip on "Submit 6TiSCH architecture for preliminary SECDIR
         review"
      - *[15.24]* Chartered Drafts
      - draft-ietf-6tisch-terminology-02 (*Pascal Thubert*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-terminology-02

      - status: adopted after IETF88

         *Pascal Thubert* presents on behalf of **Maria Rita Palattella*.

         - Main change is about definition of cells. *Patrick
Wetterwald* provided
         important feedback on terminology.
         - Refinement of cell definition
         - CDU matrix, number of slot offsets and channel offsets. CDU
         matrix is an abstraction.
         - Chunks were introduced recently. Number of cells grouped
         together to represent a space of bandwidth. Can be
appropriated by a node
         (e.g. a RPL parent) and used to manage traffic of its children.
         - Chunks can be managed so nodes can use cells without having
         overlaps
         - Bundle: groups cells together. L2 and L3 bundle, 2 routers use a
         pair of bundles one at each direction. At L2 is different, bundles are
         incoming and outgoing from the point of view of a node.
         - *[Subir Das]* L3 bundle is related with IP address subnet?
         - *[Pascal Thubert]* we are in a single subnet (usually). It is an
         IP link.
         - *[Subir Das]* it is better to be clear in all cases not only
         those that for the particular case of RPL and subnet.
         - *[Michael Richardson]* Parent allocates BW from some children.
         Is the result of this allocation a bundle?
         - *[Pascal Thubert]* The cells the are in the chunk and when
         allocate become a bundle.
      - draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-03 (*Pascal Thubert*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-03

      - 2 revisions since previous IETF
         - security issues still open
         - most of issues other than security solved
         - Terminology followed in a better way in the draft
         - Issue 19, packet goes from a track to a best effort path.

         http://tools.ietf.org/wg/6tisch/trac/ticket/19

         - Structural changes, moved section 6 earlier in the document.
         - Forwarding along tracks, there are parallel tracks that happen
         to use the same hop. Overlap is partitioned so they are like
2 parallel
         links, the question is how they can be opportunistically
reused when it is
         not used by the other track.
         - *[Victoria Pimentel]* what is different between timeslot and
         cell?
         - *[Pascal Thubert]* the cell is a cell in matrix
      - *[15.41]* draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-02 (*Xavi Vilajosana*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-02

      - since IETF89 London we had two revision
         - we had some problems in slotframe length
         - redefined number of active cell
         - added requirement of channel hopping
         - before we had 101 timeslots and 6 timeslots
         - now variable number of timeslot in the slotframe
         - 1 active cell
         - active cell is always DATA
         - EB can be send in DATA cell
         - timeslot length was 15 ms, now we recommend 10ms. other
         configuration are also supported
         - we send the channel hopping information in EBs
      - *[15.45]* draft-ietf-6tisch-6top-interface-01 (*Qin Wang*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-6top-interface-01

      - Interface draft already adopted at as a WG document
         - clarify definition of PIB as this is defined in the 15.4 std
         - Merge 15.4 and 15.4e PIB as both will converge to the same std
         doc.
         - Some attributes description was missing
         - include YANG model input on the interface draft.
      - draft-wang-6tisch-6top-sublayer-01 (*Qin Wang*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-6tisch-6top-sublayer-01

      - clarify the return value of CREATE.softcell
         - next step is to integrate CoAP IE and RPC to implement
         6top-to-6top communication
         - Coordinate with that draft
         - Clarify and provide examples
         - *[Bob Moskowitz]* is there a compressed form or canonical
         representation of the YANG model
         - *[Qin Wang]* we use CBOR to encode the information so some bytes
         are saved

         http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7049

         - *[Thomas Watteyne]* we were looking for configuration protocol
         such as RESTCONF but on the CoAP scope (i.e constrained)
         - *[Carsten Bormann]* Join forces at some point to go on that
         direction.
         - *[Peter van der Stok]* COMI, look at the drafts and find a
         common way.
      - draft-struik-6tisch-security-architecture-elements-00 (*Rene Struik*
      )

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-struik-6tisch-security-architecture-elements-00

      - Defines roles of different devices.
         - Network joining protocol
         - authentication, authorization and configuration are the main
         steps needed to secure node commissioning
         - Issues:
            - packet size
            - device Ids, how they are obtained?
         - Join process impact on network
         - Crypto protocol details
         - Authorization/trust management
         - Fit with 802.15.4e/TSCH
            - if a node joining hears and an EB, how to secure the ASN?
            - secure messages and unsecure messages cannot be read by the
            same node
         - *[Bob Moskowitz]* once the security requirement is set, things
         are already set.
         - *[Thomas Watteyne]* If I send a secure message to my neighbor
         node with a well-known key, would that work?
         - *[Rene Struik]* yes, but this can lead you to receive a wrong
         ASN and not be able to talk to the network.
         - *[Pascal Thubert]* 6TiSCH has created a security design team.
      - *[16:07]* draft-richardson-6tisch--security-6top-01 (*Michael
      Richardson*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-richardson-6tisch--security-6top-01

      - weekly security calls since January
         - agreed on a TOC intended to provide a list of open questions.
         - security reviews
         - Michael lists the people on the call
         - Join protocol: Created a role called Join Coordination Entity
         (JCE), akin to PCE.
         - Join request is a NS probably with an DAR (ARO), the request
         reaches the JCE and with a to-be-defined protocol authenticates
         - uses the Efficient ND approach, NS ARO + NS DAR to the JCE and
         this returns the NS DAC which triggers a DAO
         - In non-storing mode, the DAO is sent up to the root, In storing
         mode it stays at some intermediate node.
         - Once the node is "partially" authenticated a CoAP/DTLS packet is
         used to send the schedule, etc.
         - Next step: consensus that this sis the right way to go.
         - *[Norman Finn]* Does the CoAP packet not needs to be send after
         the NS Join ACK?
         - *[Subir Das]* In a join request, if a node cannot join, what is
         received?
         - *[Michael Richardson]* Join NaCK.
         - *[Subir Das]* what happens if a node cannot be authenticated in
         the network?
         - *[Peter van der Stok]* how does DODAG construction is going on?
         - *[Michael Richardson]* can be a second DODAG for joining.
      - *[16:20]* Report on plugfest
      - overview and goals (*Ines Robles*)

      The goal of this event is to bring together people interested in
      hands-on experience around the technology developed by the
6TiSCH, 6lo and
      ROLL WGs, with a particular focus on the TSCH mode of IEEE802.15.4e,
      6lowpan, RPL and new WG specifications

      - presentation of outcome
         - *[Thomas Watteyne]* Joint demo between Linear Technology/Dust
         Networks and Cisco Systems. Showed 6LoWPAN ND vs. Efficient NS vs. RPL
         - *[Nicola Accettura]* OpenWSN demo with 8 participants,
         implementing 4 new drafts. OpenWSN is a componeed of firmware
and software
         running on a number of hardware platforms. Next speakers will
all present
         pieces of this.
         - *[Nicola Accettura]* New web interface for OpenWSN, presented on
         behalf of *Marcelo Barros* and *Vitor Garbellini*.
         - *[Qin Wang]* we implement the 6top sublayer with *Tengfei Chang*.
         In the demo, we show how to reserve and remove soft cells.
         - *[Thomas Watteyne]* implementation of OTF scheduling between
         along a multi-hop route.
         - *[Pere Tuset]* sniffer built for capturing the traffic on the
         air.
         - *[Cedric Adjih]* demonstrate the large scale open testbed with
         more 2000 nodes in 6 deployment sites in France. You can use
it to flash
         your software and get results.
         - *[Juergen Schoenwaelder]* monitoring counters for
         troubleshooting 6LoWPAN, gathered using SNMP or CoAP.
         - *[Thomas Watteyne]* ongoing work on 802.15.4e wireshark
         dissector done by *Vincent Ladeveze*.
         - *[Nestor Tiglao]* a live demonstration of Sewio's open sniffer
         solution
         - *[Oliver (Oleg) Hahm]* have shown how the OpenWSN stack can be
         integrated into the RIOT-OS
         - *[Xavi Vilajosana]* demonstrate the use of flow label to save 5%
         saving of overhead.
      - *[16:26]* Unchartered drafts
      - *[16:26]* draft-wang-6tisch-6top-coapie-00 (*Qin Wang*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-6tisch-6top-coapie-00

      - for now a new draft, we intend to integrate to the existing 6top
         and CoAP drafts
         - 6top schedule management include 2 mechanisms:
            - distributed
            - centralized. Based on PCE. Sends information to the nodes.
         - schedules cells centrally
         - how do we develop a mechanism that can be used for both
         approaches.
         - the problem is that centralized is handled by CoAP
         - Proposes to use CoAP IE in the MAC header. This CoAP IE will
         contain a CoAP message
         - a CoAP parser is used by the 6top sublayer
         - the 6top sublayer receives a CoAP IE and parses its content
         using the CoAP parser.
         - Call for feedback about this idea.
         - *[Bob Moskowitz]* IE to transport information in a 1 hop scope.
         only?
         - *[Qin Wang]* yes 1 hop,
         - *[Thomas Watteyne]* Ask for some more information
         - *[Bob Moskowitz]* work done in TG9 area about fragmentation at
         MAC layer. See documents in the private area in 15.4.
         - Next steps:
            - get input
            - merge drafts
         - *[16:40]* draft-dujovne-6tisch-on-the-fly-03 (*Nicola Accettura*)

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dujovne-6tisch-on-the-fly-03

      - changes from the previous version: introduction of a threshold
         - OTF event that can trigger the 6top events
         - INPUT from 6top are cell list statistics, monitoring status list
         statistics, neighbor list statistics, queue list statistics
         - Allocation policies are based on the proactive thresholds and
         schedule bandwidth
         - the output to 6top are create.softcell and delete.softcell
         - OTF external CoAP interface are POST, GET methods in CoAP
      - *[16:45]* Any Other Business
      - *[Pat Kinney]* update on IEEE 802.15.4 standard
         - ongoing work in IEEE802.15.4 to integrate 802.15.4e, f, g, j, k,
         m, p
         - to be completed in 2015
         - Pat presents comments and categories
         - revision schedule, we were on the schedule but now we are a
         little bit behind
         - 5 June 2015 is the deadline for final publication
         - *[Pascal Thubert]* Would you agree to give a longer overview of
         changes in the 6TiSCH webex call on 8/1?
         - *[Pat Kinney]* Yes, can do that.
      - *[Thomas Watteyne]* Other business

      No other business raised.

      - *[16:50]* Meeting ends