Subject: [96attendees] Alternative Give Aways (Was: T-Shirts)

From: "Livingood, Jason" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 18:01:11 +0000

I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming meeting… I know t-shirts are sacred of course. Anything else folks would prefer other than a t-shirt (as a selectable option) or in addition? 

Clearly Dave needs socks, because as a key AQM thought leader his washing machine implements a laundry-version of sfq_codel and has been dropping socks every so often in order to complete each load of laundry on a timely basis (before he implemented that he reportedly never lost socks but each load of laundry took 2 days to complete). ;-)  [Sorry, that is the best sock-related buffer bloat joke I could come up with, Dave!]

Only slightly more seriously, any other suggestions for the future?

Thanks
Jason

On 7/20/16, 5:07 PM, "96attendees on behalf of Dave Taht" <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

    I have a surplus of conference T-shirts at this point. For future
    IETFs, could we switch to distributing socks, instead? Is there better
    standardization for sock sizes?

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 12:49:09 -0700

At 6:01 PM +0000 7/20/16, Jason Livingood wrote:

>  I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming 
> meetingŠ I know t-shirts are sacred of course. 
> Anything else folks would prefer other than a 
> t-shirt (as a selectable option) or in addition?

Some past IETFs distributed knapsacks/backpacks 
in addition to T-shirts, which proved extremely 
popular.  I still see people with them.  One IETF 
distributed fleece pull-overs (I suppose because 
there had been complaints about too-cold rooms). 
I'm not sure if the socks suggestion was made in 
jest, but personally, I think socks would be a 
pointless waste of money.  Others may have a 
different idea.

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
Eight out of every five people are math illiterate.

---

From: "Matthias Pfeifer | dotBERLIN GmbH & Co. KG" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:04:31 +0000

>pointless waste of money.  Others may have a
The t-shirts are cool. But it  would be helpful when attendees know what 
country-size model is used so they can order the proper size ;)

>_______________________________________________
>96attendees mailing list
>[email-masked]
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/96attendees

---

From: Heasley <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:05:16 +0200

> I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming meeting… I know t-shirts are sacred of course. Anything else folks would prefer other than a t-shirt (as a selectable option) or in addition? 

Nothing. Just concentrate on making the meeting venue as great as this one - minus the tshirts, .... + more A/C.

---

From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:28:09 +0200

I would vote for not distributing crap.   Every so often someone goes all
out and distributes some swag with their name on it that is so great that
people keep it, but that's more the exception than the rule, and I don't
think you should do it--just send the money to the IETF instead. :)

I personally would be happy if there were no T-shirt, because the peer
pressure to take the things is intense, but then I almost never wear them:
often the sponsor doesn't have time to really think about the T-shirt
thing, and we wind up with a T-shirt that's made of questionable material,
is sized wrong, or has an image on it that nobody would be caught dead
wearing in public (I'm not going to mention any names, but I'm sure
everybody remembers that shirt).

It's a nice thought, but if we want there to be IETF shirts, they should be
a money-making activity for the IETF, which would motivate a higher level
of quality and better discussions about what to put on them, would ensure
that everybody gets the size they asked for, and would also ensure that no
unwanted shirts are sadly consigned to the shredder and find themselves
sliding down that final conveyer belt, sadly wondering why the humans
didn't pick them.

(In case it's not obvious, this is all somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I
really do think that sponsor shirts are a bad idea, for precisely the
reason that we are experiencing here.)

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Heasley <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming meeting… I know t-shirts are
> sacred of course. Anything else folks would prefer other than a t-shirt (as
> a selectable option) or in addition?
>

---

From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:20:50 -0700

A couple of IETFs ago when i'd experimented with a remote chairing setup,
we had a video-conf from a sock-puppet as a WG chair with some Greg Shepherd as
the puppeteer.

If we ever want to challenge relationships with "serious" standard bodies
i think we should give those to every WG chair and have them be used.
(chairing ANIMA i fear mine would have to be able to move by itself.. challenging...)

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 06:01:11PM +0000, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming meeting??? I know t-shirts are sacred of course. Anything else folks would prefer other than a t-shirt (as a selectable option) or in addition? 
>

---

From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:41:29 -0700

Ok, more seriously:

I do like t-shirts. I've never heard colleages complain about the concept
of getting IETF t-shirts and i've seen many of them wearing IETF t-shirts at work or
even other folks on the street (admittedly SF bay area, so maybe not representative).

When you order on the registration page, some adjustment for size because
of regional differences might be good (i just oder 1 size larger in asia).

Adding a "spend money for good cause" option instead of t-shirt might be good too.

Post-event voting on the t-shirt would be nice because there have been
great and there have been really bad t-shirts. This could help sponsors to
easier figure out what a great t-shirt would be like.

Other than that: Try to beat the Kabletown lanyard. Thats still the most
funny swag from a sponsor i've gotten @ IETF.

-- 
---
Toerless Eckert, [email-masked]

---

From: Ignacio Solis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:19:29 +0000

Random ideas (not all serious):
1. SIM cards:  not everybody needs one, but the people that do really
appreciate it.  I don't think they even have to be free.  I think most
people would be grateful just to know that they could get one at
registration.  Do we have any data on how this went at Yokohama?
2. Pins: Part of the side-effect of shirts (which are worn quite a bit at
IETF) is to serve as social signals that you've been part of the community
for a while.  Maybe some people would be happier wearing pins of previous
IETFs (maybe on they laniards?) instead of getting more shirts.
3. Stickers for laptops:  Same as # 2 above
4. Patches for clothing: Same as #2... though I think patches haven't been
popular for a couple of decades
5. Tags:  Something that can be attached or displayed to achieve the same
as #2.  If you think of the tickets you get for sky-lifts and that sort of
thing maybe there is some solution that can be combined with our own
attendee badges.
6. Hoodies: Maybe this would give a variation on the clothing theme and
would deal with potential AC issues.
7. Flip-flops:  Could have been more appropriate for Honolulu.
8. Water bottle:  We all need to drink
9. Frisbee: You know, for kids
10. Mousepad: Keep at your desk at work... (still have a desk?)
11. Luggage tag: We all travel
12. Airplane pillow: We all travel a lot
13. Flask: We all travel a lot and need help
14. Universal power adapter: We travel to many countries
15. An ethernet crimp tool and/or network cable tester
16. A font: Probably some fixed-width style font, PragmataPro is probably
too expensive and we might anyway prefer some open font like Inconsolata.
17. Socks: +1 on my part, but I think they won't be as popular.
18. A bike pant strap: Only part of the membership will care, but maybe it
can be multi-purpose and used for other things(?)
19. A t-shirt display case: you know, to showcase all those t-shirts you've
collected over the years
20. If you really want to really over-engineer the solution you could get a
very good shirt with a modular component(s). Then at each IETF you just
give away a new module.  Alternatively, you must bring your old shirt and a
new module would be applied on site (iron-on patch?)

On a more serious note,  while I would oppose not having a t-shirt;  I
would be ok if that price (or any other give-away price/item) is decoupled
from the registration.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 2:20 PM Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming meeting??? I know t-shirts are
> > Clearly Dave needs socks, because as a key AQM thought leader his
> washing machine implements a laundry-version of sfq_codel and has been
> dropping socks every so often in order to complete each load of laundry on
> a timely basis (before he implemented that he reportedly never lost socks
> but each load of laundry took 2 days to complete). ;-)  [Sorry, that is the
> best sock-related buffer bloat joke I could come up with, Dave!]
> >
> > On 7/20/16, 5:07 PM, "96attendees on behalf of Dave Taht" <
> [email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:
> >

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 20 Jul 2016 22:33:51 -0000

>registration.  Do we have any data on how this went at Yokohama?

Dunno about Yokohama but I was very happy to get a SIM card in B.A.

>7. Flip-flops:  Could have been more appropriate for Honolulu.

Please be sure the size range includes US size 15 (euro 49).

R's,
John

---

From: Mika Honkanen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 00:52:37 +0300

+1 ”Adding a "spend money for good cause" option instead of t-shirt / 
'conference stuff' might be good too.”
+1 ”...I almost never wear them: often the sponsor doesn't have time to 
really think about the T-shirt thing, and we wind up with a T-shirt 
that's made of questionable material, is sized wrong, or has an image on 
it that nobody would be caught dead wearing in public (I'm not going to 
mention any names, but I'm sure everybody remembers that shirt).”
+1 ”just send the money to the IETF instead”

Best Regards,
Mika

---

From: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:09:06 +0000

Nope. I like the t-shirt.

On Jul 21, 2016, at 12:19 AM, Ignacio Solis <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

Random ideas (not all serious):
1. SIM cards:  not everybody needs one, but the people that do really appreciate it.  I don't think they even have to be free.  I think most people would be grateful just to know that they could get one at registration.  Do we have any data on how this went at Yokohama?
2. Pins: Part of the side-effect of shirts (which are worn quite a bit at IETF) is to serve as social signals that you've been part of the community for a while.  Maybe some people would be happier wearing pins of previous IETFs (maybe on they laniards?) instead of getting more shirts.
3. Stickers for laptops:  Same as # 2 above
4. Patches for clothing: Same as #2... though I think patches haven't been popular for a couple of decades
5. Tags:  Something that can be attached or displayed to achieve the same as #2.  If you think of the tickets you get for sky-lifts and that sort of thing maybe there is some solution that can be combined with our own attendee badges.
6. Hoodies: Maybe this would give a variation on the clothing theme and would deal with potential AC issues.
7. Flip-flops:  Could have been more appropriate for Honolulu.
8. Water bottle:  We all need to drink
9. Frisbee: You know, for kids
10. Mousepad: Keep at your desk at work... (still have a desk?)
11. Luggage tag: We all travel
12. Airplane pillow: We all travel a lot
13. Flask: We all travel a lot and need help
14. Universal power adapter: We travel to many countries
15. An ethernet crimp tool and/or network cable tester
16. A font: Probably some fixed-width style font, PragmataPro is probably too expensive and we might anyway prefer some open font like Inconsolata.
17. Socks: +1 on my part, but I think they won't be as popular.
18. A bike pant strap: Only part of the membership will care, but maybe it can be multi-purpose and used for other things(?)
19. A t-shirt display case: you know, to showcase all those t-shirts you've collected over the years
20. If you really want to really over-engineer the solution you could get a very good shirt with a modular component(s). Then at each IETF you just give away a new module.  Alternatively, you must bring your old shirt and a new module would be applied on site (iron-on patch?)

On a more serious note,  while I would oppose not having a t-shirt;  I would be ok if that price (or any other give-away price/item) is decoupled from the registration.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 2:20 PM Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
A couple of IETFs ago when i'd experimented with a remote chairing setup,
we had a video-conf from a sock-puppet as a WG chair with some Greg Shepherd as
the puppeteer.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 06:01:11PM +0000, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> On 7/20/16, 5:07 PM, "96attendees on behalf of Dave Taht" <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> on behalf of [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>

_______________________________________________
96attendees mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/96attendees
_______________________________________________
96attendees mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/96attendees

---

From: Jeff Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:14:24 +0000

On Jul 20, 2016, at 10:28 PM, Ted Lemon <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

I personally would be happy if there were no T-shirt, because the peer pressure to take the things is intense, but then I almost never wear them: often the sponsor doesn't have time to really think about the T-shirt thing, and we wind up with a T-shirt that's made of questionable material, is sized wrong, or has an image on it that nobody would be caught dead wearing in public (I'm not going to mention any names, but I'm sure everybody remembers that shirt).

In this case, the best answer is to not request one on your registration.  This creates the numbers that causes the host to place an order. :-)

I'll outright admit that if the t-shirt isn't a "good" shirt, I'll simply not pick one up.  Mostly this is because it's a design that's not to my preferences or an okay design that has so much vendor logo displayed on it I feel like a NASCAR driver.

Having been through this process once, it might be reasonable to try to get the artwork - or at least late concepts - out to the IETF membership prior to registration so you know whether you'd want one or not.  In our case we moved at a reasonable enough pace that we could have done this.

I would also support disclosing up front the intended brand of the shirt to help with sizing.  We had discussed putting this as a pop-up on the registration page, but our timing was too close to registration opening and couldn't take the hit on the programming time.

-- Jeff

---

From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:11:16 +0200

Jason, mnot pointed out once that these classy webcam covers (better
than post-its or those sliding shutter thingies) are brandable and
quite neat:

https://spishutter.myshopify.com/

(I suspect since they're magnetic they may not work on some laptops,
so maybe not the best idea.)

There are also things like "USB condoms" (sorry, but that's what
they're often called!) that ensure no data can fly across a USB
interface and just power will charge a device... e.g.,:

http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/

(these are also small and useful)

Universal plug adapters could be cool too!

I would recommend against small battery power packs as, damn, I have
like 20 of those:

https://twitter.com/joebeone/status/729336512404410368

best, Joe

-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
e: [email-masked], p: 202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871

---

From: Yoav Nir <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:16:46 +0200

Since no-one else mentioned them, baseball caps are also a common giveaway. And brandable.

Yoav

---

From: Ray Bellis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:18:15 +0200

> Since no-one else mentioned them, baseball caps are also a common giveaway. And brandable.

Please, no!

Ray

---

From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:29:57 +0200

I’m pleased with this ASUS Multi-Mode Pocket Router (WL-330NUL)
Probably get a good deal if bought in bulk.

Ray

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Yoav Nir <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

---

From: Yaron Sheffer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:37:50 +0200

Hey, they still make brandable pocket protectors! 
https://www.promotionalproductinc.com/pocket-protectors

Also known as: RFID credit card protectors...

     Yaron

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 10:57:56 +0100

> On 20 Jul 2016, at 20:49, Randall Gellens <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>> I ask this as a co-sponsor of an upcoming meeting I know t-shirts are sacred of course. Anything else folks would prefer other than a t-shirt (as a selectable option) or in addition?
> 
> Some past IETFs distributed knapsacks/backpacks in addition to T-shirts, which proved extremely popular.  I still see people with them.  One IETF distributed fleece pull-overs (I suppose because there had been complaints about too-cold rooms). I'm not sure if the socks suggestion was made in jest, but personally, I think socks would be a pointless waste of money.  Others may have a different idea.

T-shirts are great. 

The two most useful other freebies I’ve seen of late are bags (Comcast, IETF86, very high quality, limited in number) and a week-long SIM card (LACNIC, IETF95, removed all data headaches for the week). Of those, the SIM is most useful to make the week go more smoothly.

I like the idea of old T-shirt designs being archived at cafepress (or similar), and purchasable with money going to a good cause.

Tim

---

From: "Chaals McCathie Nevile" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:57:38 +0200

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:01:11 +0200, Livingood, Jason  
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> sacred of course. Anything else folks would prefer other than a t-shirt  
> (as a selectable option) or in addition?

Don't give something in addition - we all end up with too much stuff we  
didn't really want after all already, and it wasn't making the meeting  
work a lot better.

Things I have got instead and appreciated:

A *good* bag. These are not cheap, and when I last moved countries I left  
a pile of bags behind the door of my old house that would make an ideal  
spot for a kid playing hide-and-seek. But the one I got from Xtech lasted  
5 years of brutal travel and was retired when my phone fell out one of the  
holes in the bottom. Others with those bags still use them 10 years later.

An apron. W3C gave aprons at a meeting in Lyons - good quality heavy  
cotton cookng apron. I use mine daily at home.

A local-style hat. Size problems, but more manageable.

Sunglasses / fan (thank you to whoever decided to give those to us here) /  
good compact umbrella / lightweight travel raincoat.

A bottle of local wine. OK, strictly speaking I consumed this in the  
expected way, and for people travelling with hand luggage it means you  
need to find some people to drink it with before you leave, but in some  
places it's a fine gift - although not everyone will be grateful and in  
some places you can't give people alcohol at all.

Postcards *with stamps* - again I didn't keep them, but most of the people  
I sent them to have them on the fridge a few years later.

A kids' book. Most people know someone who will appreciate it, even if  
they don't keep it themselves.

The warm fuzzy feeling that comes because you spent the money on something  
really good like IETF, a local charity, or travel support for someone who  
couldn't otherwise attend and was a valuable contributor - plus not taking  
up space in my bag on the way home.

A phrasebook or flashcards - ideally custom-made to include things  
especially relevant to the community, or with a story.

Socks sounds silly. But if anyone had given them to me and they were  
reasonable I would have kept them. Gloves too - but sizes…

cheers

> dropping socks every so often in order to complete each load of laundry  
> on a timely basis (before he implemented that he reportedly never lost  
> socks but each load of laundry took 2 days to complete). ;-)  [Sorry,  
> that is the best sock-related buffer bloat joke I could come up with,  
> Dave!]
>
> On 7/20/16, 5:07 PM, "96attendees on behalf of Dave Taht"  
> <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:
>

-- 
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
  [email-masked] - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

---

From: Patrick Mevzek <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:10:13 +0200

> I sent them to have them on the fridge a few years later.

This would be very welcomed, especially with a specific design mixing
cities highlights where the meeting is happening, and some mention of
IETF. Like "I've survived IETF XX in XXXX…" or something. With multiple
items you could write to your colleagues/friends/family back home and at
the same time do advertisement for IETF. I can also easily be
collectible for nostalgia.

Also, as silly as it may sound, people do still write, so a pen could be
a good giveaway, it is small to carry, will not trigger alarms at
airport, can be brandable, can survive many years (if good quality, of
course I'm not speaking about 10 cents pen…), if more than one per
attendee it could again be given to others and make advertisement for
IETF, etc…

Now the problem: which pen colour, and which ink width… :-)

-- 
Patrick Mevzek

---

From: Richard Shockey <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:05:32 +0200

Baseball caps.  We haven’t had those yet, or if we have I cant remember. 

— 
Richard Shockey
Shockey Consulting LLC
Chairman of the Board SIP Forum
www.shockey.us
www.sipforum.org
richard<at>shockey.us
Skype-Linkedin-Facebook rshockey101
PSTN +1 703-593-2683

    
    T-shirts are great. 

    
    Tim