Subject: Agentx list dilemma

From: Randy Presuhn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT)

Hi - 

The AgentX mailing list administrator has a dilemma.  Postings from
list subscribers who are in the hotmail.com domain are being rejected
by (at least) the world.std.com, parc.xerox.com, qualcomm.com, gmx.net,
and pacbell.com domains.

As you can imagine, this generates a fair amount of really annoying traffic
for the list administrator.  Should I
    1) drop the subscribers whose domains are rejecting the agentx traffic
    2) drop the hotmail.com subscribers whose submissions are getting
       rejected by networks I have no control over
    3) do something else
    4) do nothing (not too likely; I really don't have time to weed
       through this many bouncies)

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn           Email: [email-masked]      http://www.bmc.com     
 Voice: +1 408 616-3100  BMC Software, Inc.           965 Stewart Drive
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3101  Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 In accordance with the BMC Communications Systems Use and Security
 Policy, I explicitly state that although my affiliation with BMC may be
 apparent, implied, or provided, my opinions are not necessarily those
 of BMC Software and that all external representations on behalf of
 BMC must first be cleared with a member of "the top management team."
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Bob Natale <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 12:36:39 -0400

>At 8/4/98 07:53 AM, Randy Presuhn wrote:

Hi Randy,

>by (at least) the world.std.com, parc.xerox.com, qualcomm.com, gmx.net,

I am personally familiar with this problem by virtue of performing
the admin function for the WinSNMP list.  It's not limited to
hotmail.com...in general, some larger domains are rejecting mail
from a growing number of (mostly "free") e-mail domains.  I can
only see this trend continuing to take hold at a rapid pace.

>As you can imagine, this generates a fair amount of really annoying
>traffic for the list administrator.  Should I

I opt for #2.  I am very sorry about that because I understand that
(1) some people need a free e-mail accoutn; (2) some people like
(the illusion of) permanence it gives them (even thoough, ironically,
it's the ephemerality of the accounts that make them so appealing to
spammers!); (3) who knows where the blocking domains will draw the
line on the practice (or fail to); (4) maybe the concept of the
free/anonymous/universal mail domains/services will make sense in
the long run.

For now, however, I think the best policy is to require subscribers
to have e-mail addresses that are not "routinely" blocked by domains
which are known to otherwise employ "safe e-mail" practices.  Granted,
there would be some subjectivity in that, but any AgentX list admin
(and you, in particular!) can be trusted with that judgment.

>       through this many bouncies)

Right.  In the end, you will have to do what is best for BMC in
this matter.  And that is as it should be.

Cordially,

BobN
------------ ISO 9001 Registered Quality Supplier -----------
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---

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:23:40 +0200

>by (at least) the world.std.com, parc.xerox.com, qualcomm.com, gmx.net,

It might be a Good Thing to mail the postmasters at those domains
and point out to them the little fact that most spam with hotmail
in their headers (at least when I looked at it) had been nowhere
near the REAL hotmail domain.

I suspect some spammers have been thrown off hotmail and are taking
a primitive kind of revenge......

>       through this many bouncies)

there is no good solution.
Offering to rewrite their FROM address as someone%hotmail.com@yourrelay
is a patch, not a solution.

                  Harald A

-- 
Harald Tveit Alvestrand, Maxware, Norway
[email-masked]