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Title: BRSKI design team 1Q2022 Working on constrained-voucher and brski-async-enroll.resending  When: Weekly from 10:00 to 11:00 on Thursday Eastern Time - Toronto Where: https://whereby.com/sandelman Calendar: anima@ietf.org Who: * mcharlesr@gmail.com - organizer * anima@ietf.org * Damm, Benjamin * von Oheimb, David * Eliot Lear (elear) * esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl * hendrik.brockhaus@siemens.com * kpanos@amazon.com * SELLAMI, MEROUANE * oleg.pekar.2017@gmail.com * Schellenbaum Aurelio Ruben Dario (scnm) * steffen.fries@siemens.com * Peter van der Stok * thomas-werner@siemens.com * TARASOV, Viktor * ynaka96@gmail.com Event details: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=MmY5NWpuc2JqYW00ODY3N2pkNmoxN2c1MGUgYW5pbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmc&tok=MTkjbWNoYXJsZXNyQGdtYWlsLmNvbWZlZmE2MmFlYmM1MGU0NmUzMDMxYTFjZWM0ZGJlNDdhMzJkOGNlNDE&ctz=America%2FToronto&hl=en&es=0 Invitation from Google Calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ You are receiving this courtesy email at the account anima@ietf.org because you are an attendee of this event. To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline this event. Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for your entire calendar. Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipient to send a response to the organizer and be added to the guest list, or invite others regardless of their own invitation status, or to modify your RSVP. Learn more at https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/37135#forwarding --000000000000e3cc4b05d93e9629 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=

You have been invited to the follo= wing event.

BRSKI design team 1Q2022
When
Weekly from 10:00 to 11:0= 0 on Thursday Eastern Time - Toronto
=
Where
https://whereby.com/sandelman (map)
Calendar
a= nima@ietf.org
Who
•
<= td style=3D"padding-right:10px;font-family:Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:13px;= color:#222;width:10px">
•
•
mcharlesr@gmail.com - orga= nizer
= •
anima@ietf.org
•
Damm, Benjamin
•
von Oheimb, David
Eliot Lear (elear)
•
=
esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl=
•
hend= rik.brockhaus@siemens.com
•
kpanos@amazon.com
SELLAMI, MEROUANE
=
•
oleg.pekar.2017@gmail.c= om
•= ;
Schellenbaum Aurelio Ruben Dario (scnm)
•
steffen.fries@siemens.com
•
Peter van der Stok
=
•
thomas-werner@sie= mens.com
&= #x2022;
=
TARASOV, Viktor
•
ynaka96@gmail.com

Working on constrained-voucher and b= rski-async-enroll.


resending=C2=A0

Going (anima@ietf.org)= ?   All events in this series:   = Yes - Maybe - No=     more opti= ons »

Invitation from Google Calendar

You are receiving this = courtesy email at the account anima@ietf.org because you are an attendee of= this event.

To stop receiving future updates for this event, decline= this event. Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at https://= calendar.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for yo= ur entire calendar.

Forwarding this invitation could allow any recipi= ent to send a response to the organizer and be added to the guest list, or = invite others regardless of their own invitation status, or to modify your = RSVP. Learn More.

 --000000000000e3cc4b05d93e9629 Content-Type: text/calendar; charset="UTF-8"; method=REQUEST Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VTIMEZONE TZID:America/Toronto X-LIC-LOCATION:America/Toronto BEGIN:DAYLIGHT TZOFFSETFROM:-0500 TZOFFSETTO:-0400 TZNAME:EDT DTSTART:19700308T020000 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYMONTH=3;BYDAY=2SU END:DAYLIGHT BEGIN:STANDARD TZOFFSETFROM:-0400 TZOFFSETTO:-0500 TZNAME:EST DTSTART:19701101T020000 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYMONTH=11;BYDAY=1SU END:STANDARD END:VTIMEZONE BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART;TZID=America/Toronto:20220303T100000 DTEND;TZID=America/Toronto:20220303T110000 RRULE:FREQ=WEEKLY;BYDAY=TH DTSTAMP:20220302T161526Z ORGANIZER;CN=mcharlesr@gmail.com:mailto:mcharlesr@gmail.com UID:2f95jnsbjam48677jd6j17g50e@google.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=anima@ietf.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:anima@ietf.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN="Damm, Benjamin";X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:benjamin.damm@itron.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN="von Oheimb, David";X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:david.von.oheimb@siemens. com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=Eliot Lear (elear);X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:elear@cisco.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:esko.dijk@iotcons ultancy.nl ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=hendrik.brockhaus@siemens.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:hendrik.brockha us@siemens.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=kpanos@amazon.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:kpanos@amazon.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=mcharlesr@gmail.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:mcharlesr@gmail.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN="SELLAMI, MEROUANE";X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:merouane.sellami@atos.net ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=oleg.pekar.2017@gmail.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:oleg.pekar.2017@gma il.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=Schellenbaum Aurelio Ruben Dario (scnm);X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:scnm@ zhaw.ch ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=steffen.fries@siemens.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:steffen.fries@sieme ns.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=Peter van der Stok;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:stokcons@bbhmail.nl ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=thomas-werner@siemens.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:thomas-werner@sieme ns.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN="TARASOV, Viktor";X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:viktor.tarasov@atos.net ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=ynaka96@gmail.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:ynaka96@gmail.com X-MICROSOFT-CDO-OWNERAPPTID:1686041468 CREATED:20220302T161524Z DESCRIPTION:Working on constrained-voucher and brski-async-enrol l.


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<000000000000e3cc8705d93e962c@google.com> References: <000000000000e3cc8705d93e962c@google.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Invitation: BRSKI design team 1Q2022 @ Weekly from 10:00 to 11:00 on Thursday (EST) (anima@ietf.org) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2022 19:32:07 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mcharlesr@gmail.com wrote: > You have been invited to the following event. > Title: BRSKI design team 1Q2022 I was asked to repost this with a new name, because apparently some calenda= rs delete the entire sequence when one meeting is 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Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EDD83A0E21; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 19:16:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164636378996.28442.13652235231467425779@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 19:16:30 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 03:16:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : An Autonomic Mechanism for Resource-based Network Services Auto-deployment Authors : Joanna Dang Sheng Jiang Zongpeng Du Yujing Filename : draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2022-03-03 Abstract: This document specifies an autonomic mechanism for resource-based network services deployment through the Autonomic Control Plane (ACP) in a network. This mechanism uses the GeneRic Autonomic Signaling Protocol (GRASP) in [RFC8990] to exchange the information among the autonomic nodes so that the resource along the service path can be coordinated. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Thu Mar 3 19:48:55 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18D53A0E6E for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 19:48:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, 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from dggpemm500018.china.huawei.com (7.185.36.111) by kwepeml100001.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.249) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.21; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:48:41 +0800 Received: from dggpemm500018.china.huawei.com ([7.185.36.111]) by dggpemm500018.china.huawei.com ([7.185.36.111]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.021; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 11:48:41 +0800 From: "zhouyujing (A)" To: "anima@ietf.org" CC: Sheng Jiang Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHYL3ZDMEpKRm1130WhHSlOYzXfAKyuklMA Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2022 03:48:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <164636379050.28442.13374970913679291129@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <164636379050.28442.13374970913679291129@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.166.240] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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KSBpbiBbUkZDODk5MF0gdG8gZXhjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGFtb25nIHRoZQ0KICAg YXV0b25vbWljIG5vZGVzIHNvIHRoYXQgdGhlIHJlc291cmNlIGFsb25nIHRoZSBzZXJ2aWNlIHBh dGggY2FuIGJlDQogICBjb29yZGluYXRlZC4NCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0K DQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg0K From nobody Fri Mar 4 03:30:52 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47F53A1307; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 03:30:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164639345073.28337.13949480402220182216@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 03:30:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 11:30:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : JWS signed Voucher Artifacts for Bootstrapping Protocols Authors : Michael Richardson Thomas Werner Filename : draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2022-03-04 Abstract: RFC8366 defines a digital artifact called voucher as a YANG-defined JSON document that has been signed using a Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) structure. This memo introduces a variant of the voucher structure in which CMS is replaced by the JSON Object Signing and Encryption (JOSE) mechanism described in RFC7515 to better support use-cases in which JOSE is preferred over CMS. In addition to explaining how the format is created, MIME types are registered and examples are provided. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Fri Mar 4 03:38:42 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB013A0F0F for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 03:38:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: siemens.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB9PR10MB5355.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9e38e8b8-fecc-4e22-4677-08d9fdd38271 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Mar 2022 11:38:31.7243 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: lLNwZ7cqWkgiNgWLhoEPnE6ry8sTUVUtY0x7Ud4Dc8Nt9OyJ8L89oPbyW06ySRRYoqHrJcYZxEhXK7N7j7UsHZGqyyhuq9v3NqKsTDidGx8= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PAXPR10MB5103 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 11:38:41 -0000 Hello, I just uploaded the new version of: draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02 Main changes are: - Added adoption call comments from Toerless. Changed from [RFCxxxx] to [TH= ING] style for some key references. - Updated references "I-D.ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll" switched to "I-D.i= etf-anima-brski-prm" - Switch from "JWS Compact Serialization" to "General JWS JSON Serializatio= n", as focus is now on "General JWS JSON Serialization" - Include Voucher representation in "General JWS JSON Serialization" syntax - Include examples A1, A2, A3 using "General JWS JSON Serialization Best regards Thomas > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Freitag, 4. M=E4rz 2022 12:31 > To: Michael Richardson ; Werner, Thomas (T CST SEA= -DE) > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-02.txt > has been successfully submitted by Thomas Werner and posted to the IETF r= epository. >=20 > Name: draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher > Revision: 02 > Title: JWS signed Voucher Artifacts for Bootstrapping Protocols > Document date: 2022-03-04 > Group: anima > Pages: 14 > URL: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt= ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-ietf- > anima-jws-voucher-02.txt&data=3D04%7C01%7Cthomas- > werner%40siemens.com%7C0bd166014ab44d9a947408d9fdd2713c%7C38ae3bcd95794fd= 4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C63781 > 9903158285775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3 > 000&sdata=3DsLuE1VWqdfdFzn4kaPEFOPOg8rxgUBDz2QYfOer5N9c%3D&reserv= ed=3D0 > Status: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt= ps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-anima- > jws-voucher%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cthomas- > werner%40siemens.com%7C0bd166014ab44d9a947408d9fdd2713c%7C38ae3bcd95794fd= 4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C63781 > 9903158285775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3 > 000&sdata=3D1kV4olNvb2WaeU7FR2QiL%2B8AeTUw40I7ye8DcJXqeT4%3D&rese= rved=3D0 > Htmlized: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt= ps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft- > ietf-anima-jws-voucher&data=3D04%7C01%7Cthomas- > werner%40siemens.com%7C0bd166014ab44d9a947408d9fdd2713c%7C38ae3bcd95794fd= 4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C63781 > 9903158285775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3 > 000&sdata=3DON5joztOPLsl2h4oHRpzvOWiNl7ppVpyAMcxStWEbUI%3D&reserv= ed=3D0 > Diff: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt= ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf- > anima-jws-voucher-02&data=3D04%7C01%7Cthomas- > werner%40siemens.com%7C0bd166014ab44d9a947408d9fdd2713c%7C38ae3bcd95794fd= 4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C63781 > 9903158285775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3 > 000&sdata=3DfNJy0q2G6S65JwLhtyR0mnYfPolCoDrCd4VRofFMv9U%3D&reserv= ed=3D0 >=20 > Abstract: > RFC8366 defines a digital artifact called voucher as a YANG-defined > JSON document that has been signed using a Cryptographic Message > Syntax (CMS) structure. This memo introduces a variant of the > voucher structure in which CMS is replaced by the JSON Object Signing > and Encryption (JOSE) mechanism described in RFC7515 to better > support use-cases in which JOSE is preferred over CMS. >=20 > In addition to explaining how the format is created, MIME types are > registered and examples are provided. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 From nobody Fri Mar 4 05:14:12 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C5E3A13DF; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 05:13:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164639962447.28434.16854202965524421522@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 05:13:44 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 13:13:45 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : BRSKI with Pledge in Responder Mode (BRSKI-PRM) Authors : Steffen Fries Thomas Werner Eliot Lear Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2022-03-04 Abstract: This document defines enhancements to bootstrapping a remote secure key infrastructure (BRSKI, [RFC8995]) to facilitate bootstrapping in domains featuring no or only timely limited connectivity between a pledge and the domain registrar. It specifically targets situations, in which the interaction model changes from a pledge-initiator-mode, as used in BRSKI, to a pledge-responder-mode as described in this document. To support both, BRSKI-PRM introduces a new registrar- agent component, which facilitates the communication between pledge and registrar during the bootstrapping phase. For the establishment of a trust relation between pledge and domain registrar, BRSKI-PRM relies on the exchange of authenticated self-contained objects (signature-wrapped objects). The defined approach is agnostic regarding the utilized enrollment protocol, deployed by the domain registrar to communicate with the Domain CA. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Fri Mar 4 05:19:35 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223F83A13EA for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 05:19:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: siemens.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DU0PR10MB5196.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0fc2777c-c8f2-47c1-985f-08d9fde1986b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Mar 2022 13:19:21.5824 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: OdNeJovTSOXBFcg4NhbwUK/nCiP8C2/garAEqszl/Ooxr0EVk+1EoVjOyJLG7u9xiC/y32Pa0f3xSuARc3C/Kym1bEcPqZmXoIjmaJLzJHI= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR1001MB1464 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 13:19:32 -0000 Hello, I just uploaded a new version of BRSKI-PRM. We plan to provide an overview = of the changes in the ANIMA session of IETF 113 The main changes comprise:=20 * Resolution of Issue #15 included additional signature on voucher from = registrar in Section 5.1.4.2 and Section 5.1.1 to allow for provisional acc= ept ending. The verification of multiple signatures is described in Section 5.1.4.3 * Included representation for General JWS JSON Serialization for exampl= es * Included error responses from pledge if it is not able to create a pl= edge-voucher request or an enrollment request in Section 5.1.4.1 * Removed open issue regarding handling of multiple CSRs and enrollment= responses during the bootstrapping as the initial target it the provisioni= ng of a generic LDevID certificate. The defined endpoint on the pledge may= also be used for management of further certificates. Best regards Steffen -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce On Behalf Of internet-dr= afts@ietf.org Sent: Freitag, 4. M=E4rz 2022 14:14 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: anima@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and = Approach WG of the IETF. Title : BRSKI with Pledge in Responder Mode (BRSKI-PRM) Authors : Steffen Fries Thomas Werner Eliot Lear Michael C. Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2022-03-04 Abstract: This document defines enhancements to bootstrapping a remote secure key infrastructure (BRSKI, [RFC8995]) to facilitate bootstrapping in domains featuring no or only timely limited connectivity between a pledge and the domain registrar. It specifically targets situations, in which the interaction model changes from a pledge-initiator-mode, as used in BRSKI, to a pledge-responder-mode as described in this document. To support both, BRSKI-PRM introduces a new registrar- agent component, which facilitates the communication between pledge and registrar during the bootstrapping phase. For the establishment of a trust relation between pledge and domain registrar, BRSKI-PRM relies on the exchange of authenticated self-contained objects (signature-wrapped objects). The defined approach is agnostic regarding the utilized enrollment protocol, deployed by the domain registrar to communicate with the Domain CA. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-anima-brski-prm%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cst= effen.fries%40siemens.com%7Cd5127a0257fc4e2558d608d9fde0e3fa%7C38ae3bcd9579= 4fd4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C637819964623940923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e= yJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&am= p;sdata=3Dz0kkQqKEu711mK3dwIxdeEXrKw1BFk0lRL5%2FyHDWb8Q%3D&reserved=3D0 There is also an htmlized version available at: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02&data=3D04%7C= 01%7Csteffen.fries%40siemens.com%7Cd5127a0257fc4e2558d608d9fde0e3fa%7C38ae3= bcd95794fd4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C637819964623940923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG= Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C= 3000&sdata=3Dd5A848R0egE%2FDhL0LVXdOomcc22aBFWEnLtxsQv3cOY%3D&reser= ved=3D0 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-02&data=3D04%7C01%7= Csteffen.fries%40siemens.com%7Cd5127a0257fc4e2558d608d9fde0e3fa%7C38ae3bcd9= 5794fd4addab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C637819964623940923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3= d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000= &sdata=3D285sfbrqPhVZL5SpEdKHyeRlX9luTF3SBl6R68GAOnk%3D&reserved=3D= 0 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-dra= fts _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fi-d-announce&data=3D04%7C01%7Csteffen.frie= s%40siemens.com%7Cd5127a0257fc4e2558d608d9fde0e3fa%7C38ae3bcd95794fd4addab4= 2e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C637819964623940923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4= wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D= Ca2uw1kYwfNrH2Nsw7ikTbfE7VoIHS2RM43MZAbhPEk%3D&reserved=3D0 Internet-Draft directories: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/= ?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fshadow.html&data=3D04%7C01%7Csteffen= .fries%40siemens.com%7Cd5127a0257fc4e2558d608d9fde0e3fa%7C38ae3bcd95794fd4a= ddab42e1495d55a%7C1%7C0%7C637819964623940923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj= oiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sda= ta=3DbcpQIPgQNWi8Dh6rdSmbspI2jdyE8DAG%2B1UrcTvz4LU%3D&reserved=3D0 or https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.ie= tf.org%2Fietf%2F1shadow-sites.txt&data=3D04%7C01%7Csteffen.fries%40siem= ens.com%7Cd5127a0257fc4e2558d608d9fde0e3fa%7C38ae3bcd95794fd4addab42e1495d5= 5a%7C1%7C0%7C637819964623940923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA= iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D0NtIPyGu= 9mtFxzufIMa1Sp9IrIgAWpDXaXkz4nPc3fA%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Fri Mar 4 10:15:31 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5093A0B6E for ; 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Fri, 4 Mar 2022 19:15:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 317DE4EA812; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 19:15:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2022 19:15:23 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ANIMA: pls comment: draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig-01 / draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd-03 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 18:15:30 -0000 Dear ANIMA WG members, I have refreshed the two drafts to complete a solution for a real standalone ACP: a) use DNS-SD service compatible service discovery in ANIMA/ACP via GRASP: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd/ b) Use service discovery for ANIMA/ACP to autoconfigure its own core services https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig/ Could I ask you to review and comment these two drafts ? If the responses are not too averse, I will request a call for adoption. Thanks Toerless Btw: I am happy to swap mutual review cycles, so if you are waiting for more reviews of your very own draft for ANIMA, i'll be happy to reciprocate ;-)) From nobody Fri Mar 4 17:03:46 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4603A13C6 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:03:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sYw52U9paz_q for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F9283A0BD6 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id b8so8647799pjb.4 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:03:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=p9hz8GuC71hADDoMgoWueiZiP0dl0wwrslCEmPwosb0=; b=jclDO+rAFMXf9rMG3ngAMKsc89pMbmObkM/AeVub6frkcy5VVFv6lmBflmM4B652C2 UyDCFxMUtMj8iU6HLP/W0PC+vwAjsHl+uZZAE+ra0oyuJl3Ehx6BcctgzhaUok3Yv5kI QKHr3XJjNaYdcyzhYfoHEcZo/raYtRQBE3rLiEDV4PrOJ37lhKZU3ou+k3P8Y8EsymJO +MheNuYQG/dfw69GRRUUnhixTKNpwIau6s8wIlwm9sKMYK0Vy6U9uSUyigZ7LSop4HVj OhUyXGX2m9fSduh0uQWuHKZmnEJdq+Mq+1gM5y3Utat60H5P1/zOo8vG18wrInwum6gr IjNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=p9hz8GuC71hADDoMgoWueiZiP0dl0wwrslCEmPwosb0=; b=Qt+eE7m81s1cN5ee+6JaNyRrTjDAEcDltia/q5QtVLR71sUGdf0aVmi2meeaF1dHYX qw+CPIb/rm4C/KrkKmNm06nNTfFmegLjgFcbGQmeuDmO8aaLm/Db9mir8VnvWLO/cPPD Q9nboXcZUPvyMULc7XtzW43uC5EFX+8J6TqvzRXk3QJl4/X8chmpj30vl4UuHelgxOvf HYPZ2LaIpKBPed++sp6QUou443oNHzWUFuhqh1K5t4/Wbo0weiQWy5HDRsVvhF5L3yoo ETxNXrDEyX5c3zyWgBglKgbILyUcuXRp1H5FGrrKDaLyf/ovqxsM95w4SCRvY4lEsVm3 fGtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530v76zmCzIN7WutOHfQkQazrzNPyVl7gvwaXQtjkiumiij24sLc dxjbLuXbbataPU37EoEudZ6OUUxIN4Nfqw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyZC5gKfICxfHxYSHuVynJ7QnVsPbW+Ox0Wwqs7PZIbabTbHV/Bo2+Lm6oY1Pju52Rj8S8TmQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a502:b0:1bc:8dd6:a859 with SMTP id a2-20020a17090aa50200b001bc8dd6a859mr1393589pjq.46.1646442222504; Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l71-20020a63914a000000b0036c4233875dsm5438155pge.64.2022.03.04.17.03.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:03:41 -0800 (PST) To: Toerless Eckert , anima@ietf.org References: From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <72d1ae7b-a707-ab20-806f-e4967ca250a1@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:03:37 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA: pls comment: draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig-01 / draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd-03 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 01:03:46 -0000 Hi, I can reply fairly quickly, since I studied these two drafts before, and prototyped the draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd mechanism. I haven't exercised that code recently, but it can be found at: https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GetDNSSD2.py https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/AskDNSSD2.py So, the mechanism for mapping DNSSD info to a GRASP objective works. The question that came to me was whether the proposed family of SRV. objectives was too general or not general enough. Too general, because it claims to be applicable to, well, anything. Not general enough, because for draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-config, it didn't make much sense to define that as SRV.GraspConfig. However, I found the CBOR map approach to defining an extensible objective very useful. Hence, the code at: https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GRASPconfig.py does *not* use the exact draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd mapping, but is directly based on it. All the same, I think this approach to integrating GRASP-based service management with DNSSD and with legacy NOC services is very interesting and seems to be something ANIMA should consider carefully. Could the authors deal with the various TBDs in both documents? Regards Brian Carpenter On 05-Mar-22 07:15, Toerless Eckert wrote: > Dear ANIMA WG members, > > I have refreshed the two drafts to complete a solution for a real standalone ACP: > > a) use DNS-SD service compatible service discovery in ANIMA/ACP via GRASP: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd/ > b) Use service discovery for ANIMA/ACP to autoconfigure its own core services > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig/ > > Could I ask you to review and comment these two drafts ? > > If the responses are not too averse, I will request a call for adoption. > > Thanks > Toerless > > Btw: I am happy to swap mutual review cycles, so if you are waiting for more reviews > of your very own draft for ANIMA, i'll be happy to reciprocate ;-)) > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Fri Mar 4 17:10:45 2022 Return-Path: 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ESMTP Proxy 1.59 (encrypt=FALSE mode=FALLBACK); Fri, 04 Mar 2022 20:10:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 20:10:26 -0500 From: Jim Zubov To: secdispatch@ietf.org, Hannes Tschofenig , Jim Zubov , "secdispatch@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson , "iotops@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com>, <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----IZU1C3FBSABSWSQA60NDZM9OFRL82B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ocean1.commercebyte.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - commercebyte.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ocean1.commercebyte.com: authenticated_id: jz@nixob.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Secdispatch] [Iotops] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 01:10:42 -0000 ------IZU1C3FBSABSWSQA60NDZM9OFRL82B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Hannes, Good overview of strategic approaches, let me add another dimension - - Can the relay access any information communicated between the device and= the user, - If the answer is _no_ - can the user or some independent party verify th= e validity of such claim=2E In case of SNIF, the setup consists of - an IoT device capable of serving HTTPS (user friendly pages or an API), = running a SNIF connector, - a web based device manager on the user side that works with the device's= HTTPS content (and expects a trusted cert), - a SNIF relay / CA proxy server in the cloud, - potentially, an independent observer that watches TLS transparency logs = and raises an alert if any duplicate certs are found for the CNs issued by = the CA proxy=2E This way, the IoT device owns the private key, and there's a proof through= the public trust PKI that the device manager is communicating to the authe= ntic device=2E In case if the public CA trust is not enough, the device manager can exami= ne the public key on the cert on every connection (should be possible to do= with the Forge project in regular js), and raise an alert if the key is ch= anged (just like ssh does)=2E SNIF is the answer for a smart home, a security cam, or any other private = IoT you don't want anybody to sniff on (pun intended)=2E If you're deploying a device accessable to a large group, like a public we= bcam, SNIF might be not a good option, it might be better to have an interm= idiate proxy that handles all traffic without choking the device=2E But, en= d-to-end privacy is a lesser concern in such case=2E Regarding the conversion of any existing devices to SNIF - - serve the content on the device over HTTPS or local plain HTTP, whether = it's a web page, a video stream or an API, listening on a local port (say 4= 43) - run a SNIF connector process to maintain the cert and to relay to incomi= ng SNIF connections to the local port=2E On March 3, 2022 6:18:48 AM EST, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >Hi Jim, > >Thanks for your response=2E > >> There are some IoT management solutions on the market, both open source= and proprietary, but as far as I can tell none of them fully follows the e= nd to end paradigm=2E >[Hannes] It depends what you call end-to-end=2E As an IoT service provide= r you have to make a few decisions about how to manage and deploy IoT devic= es=2E Broadly speaking, you have three options: > > * You seek out to a third party to manage your devices=2E Needless t= o say that you should pick a company that you feel comfortable with=2E They= will manage your devices and they will also offer ways to store the data o= btained from the devices, to manage and distribute firmware updates, and ev= en to perform analysis of the data (machine learning)=2E Then, you can typi= cally connect backend application servers to the device management offering= =2E Of course, the details vary a lot with what you are actually doing as a= n IoT service provider with the IoT devices and the data=2E > * You get the software from a provider and you manage the devices on = your own=2E This is often the case when you want to deploy an on-premise so= lution=2E Here you have to trust the provider of the device management soft= ware that the code is correct and does what it is supposed to do=2E In some= cases you not only get the binary but also the source code=2E In theory, y= ou could check what code is actually running (although I doubt that anyone = really checks)=2E > * Finally, you build your own device management solution (often using= available open source software)=2E >In practice, I have also seen a combination of the variants above=2E For = example, I have seen a case where the devices were managed by a third party= but the video stream of the surveillance camera was sent directly to a ded= icated server managed by the IoT service provider=2E (There were also vario= us techniques to prevent modifications to the device to have the video stre= am re-directed or the credentials changes but I think you get the idea=2E) = The communication model there was a bit different than yours because the cl= ient initiated the communication with the video server=2E Hence, there was = no issue with running a TLS server on the device=2E >On top of this, it is also common to provide special security protection = for selected data=2E For example, firmware updates are signed by party diff= erent from the company offering the device management solution=2E They are,= for example, singed by the company developing the code=2E They are still d= istributed by the device management infrastructure and hence you have to re= ly on the distribution of them but there is no chance for the device manage= ment provider to inject malicious code into the device=2E >From what I am seeing, the first deployment model is very popular=2E The = approach of =E2=80=9Cdesigning your own solution=E2=80=9D was popular in th= e early days because companies were given the impression that this IoT stuf= f is so simple that you can put a solution together in a weekend=2E It turn= ed out that this is not quite the case (if you have a larger number of devi= ces)=2E Many IoT service providers also need help designing the entire solu= tion, also the solution on the IoT device itself=2E >How does your solution fit into this picture? >> I believe it's worth having a universal cross-vendor solution that hand= les SNIF device onboarding, maintains the credentials in a local secure sto= rage, and consolidates https based management interface hosted by individua= l devices through SNIF=2E >[Hannes] There is definitely a lot of excitement when it comes to the dev= elopment of device onboarding solutions=2E I have to trust you that there i= s further interest for solutions because I haven=E2=80=99t checked=2E > >> The requirements for such solution is a topic for a separate draft, alt= hough I already outlined the possible secure onboarding process in the secu= rity section=2E >I will re-read your security consideration section again=2E > >Note that I am certainly not against your solution=2E If your approach ha= s success, kudos to you=2E > >Ciao >Hannes > >On February 24, 2022 5:37:46 AM EST, Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: > >Hi Jim, > >Thanks for the quick response=2E The link to your website is helpful=2E I= now understood that you would also relay the communication through the pro= xy, which deals with the IoT device being behind a NAT and/or firewall if t= he IoT device keeps the connection alive=2E > >I wonder whether you have considered to re-use an existing device managem= ent solutions since those is widely deployed today? > >Ciao >Hannes > >-----Original Message----- >From: Iotops = > On Behalf Of Jim Zubov >Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 4:17 PM >To: secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg; Hannes Tschofe= nig >; = Jim Zubov >; secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg; Michael Richards= on >; iotops@ietf= =2Eorg; anima@ietf=2Eorg >Subject: Re: [Iotops] [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS S= ervers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) > >Thank You for your feedback Hannes, I addressed the comments below - > >On February 23, 2022 5:36:15 AM EST, Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: > >Hi all, > >Thanks for this contribution, Jim=2E > >Reading through the document I agree that the SUIB topic discussed in the= IOTOPS WG appears relevant=2E I also wonder whether the work in the DANISH= group (see https://datatracker=2Eietf=2Eorg/wg/danish/about/) is relevant= =2E > >Agreed about SUIB, not quite sure about DANISH=2E DANISH is about certifi= cate based authentication and PKI extensions, while SNIF is about end-to-en= d relayed trusted TLS that relies on the standard PKI=2E > >Regarding the use in IoT I have a question for my understanding=2E > >In a nutshell, you introduce a proxy that allocates a hostname and reques= ts a creation of a certificate on behalf of the IoT device=2E > >Correct, plus an e2e TLS relay=2E > >To get this to work you rely on three assumptions: >(1) There has to be a communication infrastructure that associates the "a= nonymous" hostname with a specific device and conveys these identifiers to = the relevant parties=2E > >Each device is configured with an initUrl pointing to a specific CA proxy= that allocates a random hostname (a CN to be more accurate), normally a su= bdomain of a master domain that has a wildcard DNS record pointing to the C= A proxy=2E >Example - the initUrl for public experimental use - https://snif=2Esnif= =2Exyz:4443 The allocated wildcard CN is a subdomain of the master domain s= nif=2Exyz > > >(2) You assume that a party that wants to contact the IoT device is able = to reach the device (i=2Ee=2E the IoT device is not behind a firewall or NA= T)=2E > >Both the IoT device and the client connect to the SNIF relay=2E The whole= purpose of SNIF is to be able to work from behind NAT / firewall /etc, and= it's been confirmed to work in pre-production=2E In fact I had a minor hic= kup with Fortigate in the process of testing which has been resolved=2E >There are simplified diagrams on https://snif=2Ehost to illustrate the co= ncept=2E > > >(3) Someone operating IoT devices has to trust the proxy since it is easy= for the proxy to associate a hostname with a public key that was created b= y the proxy (rather than the end device)=2E This essentially allows the pro= xy to impersonating the IoT device=2E > >Is my understanding correct? > >Yes, I mentioned this vulnerability in the security section=2E The answer= is >- watch the public TLS transparency logs, any party can do it=2E If any o= verlapping CNs are found - the CA proxy is permanently compromised, >- do not use random CA proxies owned by unknown parties=2E > > >Ciao >Hannes > >Any further questions/suggestions are welcome=2E > >-----Original Message----- >From: Secdispatch > On Behalf Of Jim Zubov >Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 12:22 AM >To: secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg; Michael Richar= dson >; >Jim Zubov >; iotops@ietf=2Eorg; anima@ietf=2Eorg >Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers >on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) > >Thanks for the feedback again, my comment are below=2E >I submitted a new version of the draft to reflect some changes=2E > >On February 10, 2022 1:02:48 PM EST, Michael Richardson > wrote: > >Jim Zubov > wrote: > > This was also on the IETF112 IOTOPS WG agenda: > slides: > https://datatracker=2Eietf=2Eorg/meeting/112/materials/slides-112-iotops= -suib-browsing-local-web-resources-in-a-secure-usable-manner-iot-device-con= figuration-as-a-special-case-00 > video: https://youtu=2Ebe/OIlJrUvwDcI?t=3D1649 > > and we hope to return at IETF113=2E > > > >Right, looks like SUIB is working on a similar problem=2E Thanks for >pointing this out=2E In particular, the "Sol #6 Device name DNS" slide >looks quite similar to SNIF CA Proxy (Section 3)=2E However, SUIB pursues >bigger infrastructural goals such as changing the localhost TLS >connection policies (I totally agree and really appreciate the effort), >while SNIF is a functioning solution within the existing >infrastructure, tested and proven to work in pre-production=2E > >The slides may be too vague=2E Changing the TLS policies is a possible >solution, but probably an impractical one=2E Nevertheless, many people >(not steeped in the arts, and often failling into the PHB category) >think that it is an obvious solution, so we list it in order to explain w= hy it won't work=2E > >Yes, still sad that localhost slipped through the cracks when the origina= l security standards were written=2E > > > > The SUIB problem addresses the challenge of connecting *locally* to a > device, > and doing it securely=2E For this to be possible with RFC6125-DNS-ID > standard > browser, we need a name for the device, and we need a way to translate > that > name into a locally reachable IP address=2E > > The SNIF proposal does not quite solve the above problem=2E > > > >In fact, I originally designed SNIF to solve this specific problem - >local-to-local trusted TLS connections=2E > >Ah, very nice to know=2E > >* Issue a wildcard cert through SNIF CA Proxy >(e=2Eg=2E CN=3D*=2Edomain=2Esnif=2Exyz), set a DNS record for >localhost=2Edomain=2Esnif=2Exyz to point to localhost's IPv4/v6, and use >https://localhost=2Edomain=2Esnif=2Exyz (or other app protocol - imaps >etc)=2E However, looks like some clients treat the localhost IP as >inherently unsecure, and issue a warning ever is the cert is perfectly >valid=2E The option is still possible, but the applicability might be >limited=2E > >The process we described at > >https://specs=2Emanysecured=2Eorg/suib/Solutions/dnsname-embedded-solutio= n > >also uses a wildcard cert, but has a magic authoritative DNS server >that translates the left-most label into an A or AAAA record=2E It's >rather a cute hack, but at least: > a) it's cachable > b) it could even be calculated locally, if one ignores DNSSEC=2E > >Yes, using a local network IP instead of a localhost IP is actually a sma= rt idea=2E >However, inlining the local IP in the hostname, as SUIB does, means you'l= l have to change the hostname in your client every time your network is cha= nged=2E >I have an thought for SNIF improvement - SNIF connector sends a SNIF DNS = command to set a dynamic DNS A/AAAA for a certain hostname within the CN wi= ldcard, and the CA proxy updates the DNS accordingly=2E This way the hostna= me can be permanent, but with dynamic DNS=2E >Another problem - most platforms won't let you bind to port < 1024 unless= you're a root=2E Might be ok for a device manufacturer, but is a potential= show stopper for any user space app=2E Relayed SNIF works around this prob= lem since the listening ports are on the relay=2E > > > > >* Another option is to override the IP routing rules=2E It is totally >possible on iOS and Mac through a userspace VPN (only one VPN per >device though - beware of possible conflicts)=2E In fact I have a >functioning solution for it, in beta now - > >That doesn't really scale to many different domains=2E > >Totally agreed, I just mentioned that this option works for *some* cases,= tun/tap a is possible option too if you're a root=2E > > > >Still, if SNIF is replacing a manufacturer proprietary call-home protocol= , >there could be advantages from having well reviewed code bases, and >potentially an ecosystem of SNIF Providers that manufacturers could >outsource > > > >to=2E Azure/Amazon/=2E=2E=2E could easily run such services=2E > > > >I see two options - a SNIF server implemented by each vendor for their >own devices/services, or a bigger SNIF SaaS implemented by a trusted >provider, used by vendors=2E > >Yes, but what's the financial motive for this provider? > >(1) For a vendor to run their own SNIF server: market as a true auditable= end-to-end for IoT devices they offer=2E >(2) For a vendor using SNIF SaaS: market as (1) backed by >{TrustedBigName} >(3) For a {TrustedBigName} to run SNIF SaaS: collect fees from (2) for us= ing their service and big name=2E > >As a matter of fact, SNIF relay is light on server resources=2E I've been= running it on a minimum DigitalOcean virtual server for months with more t= han a dozen connectors, the server load is a fraction of a percent=2E Of = course if somebody connects IoT cameras they can generate some traffic, but= IoT vendors already handle it through their proprietary relays=2E > > > >SNIF seems very much IPv4 NAT44 focused, and it could benefit from some >understanding of IPv6 and IPv6-over-IPv4 technologies, > > particularly > >Teredo=2E > > > >SNIF is not exactly focused on v4, it works fine with v6 as well=2E It's >designed to work around NAT, that's true=2E However, IPv6 networks may >pose issues too - firewalls etc, which will prevent to directly accept >incoming TCP on IPv6 address=2E > >Teredo could be used instead and allows the relay to be stateless and >distributed, and devolves to ordinary IPv6 when it is present=2E > >Yes, but Teredo is IPv6 specific, the world is not strictly IPv6 yet=2E A= nd it's a system level solution, while SNIF works fine in a user space=2E > > > >It clearly has to speak HTTPS only=2E > > > >I specified HTTP because PKCS#10 and X=2E509 are inherently secure to be >sent over a plain connection=2E > >Yes, but there are privacy concerns which will become a pain, so >better to just say HTTPS here=2E > >I respectfully disagree, still think HTTP is an easier answer for SNIF=2E= The problem with HTTPS is - SNIF relay (usually) routes https port to SNIF= connectors, and does not serve it within the server=2E Having a dedicated = hostname or an alternate port means than SNIF connectors need additional co= nfiguration options, or additional discovery protocols=2E On the other hand= , HTTP allows to derive all API URLs deterministically from the CN=2E >I addressed the possible security concerns in more details and amended th= e Security section in the draft=2E > > > > >The best option is the manufacturer I believe=2E The manufacturer can >have either their own SNIF server, or work with a trusted SaaS=2E This >way it's zero setup for the end user, and doesn't need any >infrastructure additions=2E > >Agreed, the manufacturer has to provision a credential=2E > >Yes I proposed some outlines in the security section, more detailed specs= are probably better to describe in a separate draft=2E > > > >Sure, elliptic curves are better, but some old school clients may have >problems with them=2E It may make sense to not mention the recommended >algorithm in the draft, and just to follow the CA's recommendations=2E > >ECDSA acceleration is pretty much ubiquitous, while RSA is not=2E > >Honestly I don't think acceleration is such a big deal, most of TLS job i= s symmetric ciphers anyway=2E But I agree - it's better to follow the CA su= ggestions and industry practices=2E > > > >I believe there's no security issue, as long as the CN entropy is suffici= ent=2E > > > >I specified the X-SNIF-CN: as mandatory, and text/plain body as an >optional duplicate of it=2E To make it cleaner, I can remove the body >from the specs and say the response body is to be ignored=2E > >If both are present, and they don't match, then there is confusion=2E >So just go with one=2E I think that it should actually be a JSON or CBOR= payload return=2E > >Agreed, I removed the response body from the draft, going with the header= =2E > > > > >They *aren't* what IANA would call "IP protocols", which would be things >like >TCP, UDP, SCTP, ESP, =2E=2E=2E > > > >Has IANA *already* registered port 7123 then? > > > >It's not an IP protocol=2E It's a service that listens on TCP 7123, I >registered with IANA based on a previous version of the document, >before I turned it into an I-D=2E > >I think you should drop the "snif-*" sentence as it makes no sense=2E >You have already allocated TCP port 7123 to the SNIF *service*, so >that's great=2E > >It's actually called "Service Names" in IANA terminology, sorry for the c= onfusion=2E I updated in the draft=2E > > > >-- >] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh netwo= rks [ >] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architec= t [ >] mcr@sandelman=2Eca http://www=2Esandelm= an=2Eca/ | ruby on rails [ > >________________________________ > >Secdispatch mailing list >Secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg >https://www=2Eietf=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch >IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are conf= idential and may also be privileged=2E If you are not the intended recipien= t, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to= any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information= in any medium=2E Thank you=2E > >________________________________ > >Secdispatch mailing list >Secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg >https://www=2Eietf=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch > >-- >Iotops mailing list >Iotops@ietf=2Eorg >https://www=2Eietf=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/iotops >IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are conf= idential and may also be privileged=2E If you are not the intended recipien= t, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to= any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information= in any medium=2E Thank you=2E > >IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are conf= idential and may also be privileged=2E If you are not the intended recipien= t, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to= any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information= in any medium=2E Thank you=2E ------IZU1C3FBSABSWSQA60NDZM9OFRL82B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Hannes,

Good overview of strategic approaches, let me ad= d another dimension -
- Can the relay access any information communicate= d between the device and the user,
- If the answer is _no_ - can the use= r or some independent party verify the validity of such claim=2E

In = case of SNIF, the setup consists of
- an IoT device capable of serving H= TTPS (user friendly pages or an API), running a SNIF connector,
- a web = based device manager on the user side that works with the device's HTTPS co= ntent (and expects a trusted cert),
- a SNIF relay / CA proxy server in = the cloud,
- potentially, an independent observer that watches TLS trans= parency logs and raises an alert if any duplicate certs are found for the C= Ns issued by the CA proxy=2E

This way, the IoT device owns the priva= te key, and there's a proof through the public trust PKI that the device ma= nager is communicating to the authentic device=2E
In case if the public = CA trust is not enough, the device manager can examine the public key on th= e cert on every connection (should be possible to do with the Forge project= in regular js), and raise an alert if the key is changed (just like ssh do= es)=2E

SNIF is the answer for a smart home, a security cam, or any o= ther private IoT you don't want anybody to sniff on (pun intended)=2E
If you're deploying a device accessable to a large group, like a public w= ebcam, SNIF might be not a good option, it might be better to have an inter= midiate proxy that handles all traffic without choking the device=2E But, e= nd-to-end privacy is a lesser concern in such case=2E

Regarding the = conversion of any existing devices to SNIF -
- serve the content on the = device over HTTPS or local plain HTTP, whether it's a web page, a video str= eam or an API, listening on a local port (say 443)
- run a SNIF connecto= r process to maintain the cert and to relay to incoming SNIF connections to= the local port=2E

On March 3, 2022 6:18:= 48 AM EST, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes=2ETschofenig@arm=2Ecom> wrote:

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for your response=2E

 

> There are som= e IoT management solutions on the market, both open source and proprietary,= but as far as I can tell none of them fully follows the end to end paradig= m=2E

[Hannes] It depend= s what you call end-to-end=2E As an IoT service provider you have to make a= few decisions about how to manage and deploy IoT devices=2E Broadly speaki= ng, you have three options:

  • You  seek out to a third party to manage your devices=2E Needless to = say that you should pick a company that you feel comfortable with=2E They w= ill manage your devices and they will also offer ways to store the data obt= ained from the devices, to manage and distribute firmware updates, and even to perform analysis of the data (machine learn= ing)=2E Then, you can typically connect backend application servers to the = device management offering=2E Of course, the details vary a lot with what y= ou are actually doing as an IoT service provider with the IoT devices and the data=2E
  • You get the software from a provider and you manage the devices on your ow= n=2E This is often the case when you want to deploy an on-premise solution= =2E Here you have to trust the provider of the device management software t= hat the code is correct and does what it is supposed to do=2E In some cases you not only get the binary but als= o the source code=2E In theory, you could check what code is actually runni= ng (although I doubt that anyone really checks)=2E
  • Finally, you build your own device management solution (often using availa= ble open source software)=2E

In practice, I hav= e also seen a combination of the variants above=2E For example, I have seen= a case where the devices were managed by a third party but the video strea= m of the surveillance camera was sent directly to a dedicated server managed by the IoT service provider=2E (There were = also various techniques to prevent modifications to the device to have the = video stream re-directed or the credentials changes but I think you get the= idea=2E) The communication model there was a bit different than yours because the client initiated the communica= tion with the video server=2E Hence, there was no issue with running a TLS = server on the device=2E

On top of this, it= is also common to provide special security protection for selected data=2E= For example, firmware updates are signed by party different from the compa= ny offering the device management solution=2E They are, for example, singed by the company developing the code=2E They = are still distributed by the device management infrastructure and hence you= have to rely on the distribution of them but there is no chance for the de= vice management provider to inject malicious code into the device=2E

From what I am see= ing, the first deployment model is very popular=2E The approach of =E2=80= =9Cdesigning your own solution=E2=80=9D was popular in the early days becau= se companies were given the impression that this IoT stuff is so simple that you can put a solution together in a weekend=2E It turn= ed out that this is not quite the case (if you have a larger number of devi= ces)=2E Many IoT service providers also need help designing the entire solu= tion, also the solution on the IoT device itself=2E

How does your solu= tion fit into this picture?

> I believe it'= s worth having a universal cross-vendor solution that handles SNIF device o= nboarding, maintains the credentials in a local secure storage, and consoli= dates https based management interface hosted by individual devices through SNIF=2E

[Hannes] There is = definitely a lot of excitement when it comes to the development of device o= nboarding solutions=2E I have to trust you that there is further interest f= or solutions because I haven=E2=80=99t checked=2E


> The requirements for such solution is a topic for a separate draft, a= lthough I already outlined the possible secure onboarding process in the se= curity section=2E

I will re-read you= r security consideration section again=2E

 <= /p>

Note that I am cer= tainly not against your solution=2E If your approach has success, kudos to = you=2E

 <= /p>

Ciao

Hannes<= /p>

 <= /p>

On February 24, 2022 5:37:46 AM EST, Hannes Tschofe= nig <Hannes=2ETschofeni= g@arm=2Ecom> wrote:

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the quick response=2E The link to your webs=
ite is helpful=2E I now understood that you would also relay the communicat=
ion through the proxy, which deals with the IoT device being behind a NAT a=
nd/or firewall if the IoT device keeps the connection alive=2E

I won=
der whether you have considered to re-use an existing device management sol=
utions since those is widely deployed today?

Ciao
Hannes

-=
----Original Message-----
From: Iotops <iotops-bounces@ietf=2Eorg> On Behalf Of Jim ZubovSent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 4:17 PM
To: secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg; Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes=2ETschofenig@arm=2Ecom=
>; Jim Zubov <ietf-li=
st@commercebyte=2Ecom>; se=
cdispatch@ietf=2Eorg; Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman=2Eca>; iotops@ietf=2Eorg; anim=
a@ietf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [Iotops] [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publ=
icly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forw=
arding (SNIF)

Thank You for your feedback Hannes, I addressed the co=
mments below -

On February 23, 2022 5:36:15 AM EST, Hannes Tschofeni=
g <Hannes=2ETschofenig@=
arm=2Ecom> wrote:
Hi all,

Thanks for this contribution, Jim=2E

Reading th=
rough the document I agree that the SUIB topic discussed in the IOTOPS WG a=
ppears relevant=2E I also wonder whether the work in the DANISH group (see =
https://data=
tracker=2Eietf=2Eorg/wg/danish/about/) is relevant=2E

Agreed about SUIB, not quite sur=
e about DANISH=2E DANISH is about certificate based authentication and PKI =
extensions, while SNIF is about end-to-end relayed trusted TLS that relies =
on the standard PKI=2E

Regarding the use in IoT I have a question for my understanding=
=2E

In a nutshell, you introduce a proxy that allocates a hostname a=
nd requests a creation of a certificate on behalf of the IoT device=2E=


Correct, plus an e2e TLS relay=2E

To get this to work you rely on three assumptions:
(1) There h=
as to be a communication infrastructure that associates the "anonymous" hos=
tname with a specific device and conveys these identifiers to the relevant =
parties=2E

Each device is configured with a=
n initUrl pointing to a specific CA proxy that allocates a random hostname =
(a CN to be more accurate), normally a subdomain of a master domain that ha=
s a wildcard DNS record pointing to the CA proxy=2E
Example - the initUr=
l for public experimental use - =
https://snif=2Esnif=2Exyz:4443 The allocated wildcard CN is a subdomain=
 of the master domain snif=2Exyz

(2) You assume that a party that wants to contact the IoT device is a=
ble to reach the device (i=2Ee=2E the IoT device is not behind a firewall o=
r NAT)=2E

Both the IoT device and the clie=
nt connect to the SNIF relay=2E The whole purpose of SNIF is to be able to =
work from behind NAT / firewall /etc, and it's been confirmed to work in pr=
e-production=2E In fact I had a minor hickup with Fortigate in the process =
of testing which has been resolved=2E
There are simplified diagrams on <=
a href=3D"https://snif=2Ehost">https://snif=2Ehost to illustrate the co=
ncept=2E

(3) Someone operating IoT devices has to trust the proxy since it is =
easy for the proxy to associate a hostname with a public key that was creat=
ed by the proxy (rather than the end device)=2E This essentially allows the=
 proxy to impersonating the IoT device=2E

Is my understanding correc=
t?

Yes, I mentioned this vulnerabil=
ity in the security section=2E The answer is
- watch the public TLS tran=
sparency logs, any party can do it=2E If any overlapping CNs are found - th=
e CA proxy is permanently compromised,
- do not use random CA proxies ow=
ned by unknown parties=2E


Ciao
Hannes

Any further questions/suggestion=
s are welcome=2E

-----Original Message-----
From: Secdispatch <secdispatch-bounces@ietf=2Eorg>=
 On Behalf Of Jim Zubov
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 12:22 AM
To: =
secdispatch@ietf=2Eorg; Micha=
el Richardson <mcr+ietf@sande=
lman=2Eca>;
Jim Zubov <ietf-list@commercebyte=2Ecom>; iotops@ietf=2Eorg; anima@i=
etf=2Eorg
Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted=
 TLS Servers
on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (S=
NIF)

Thanks for the feedback again, my comment are below=2E
I sub=
mitted a new version of the draft to reflect some changes=2E

On Febr=
uary 10, 2022 1:02:48 PM EST, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman=2Eca> wrote:




Jim Zubov <iet=
f-list@commercebyte=2Ecom> wrote:






 This was also on the IETF112 IOTOPS WG agenda:
 slides:
 https://datatracker=2Eietf=2Eorg/meetin=
g/112/materials/slides-112-iotops-suib-browsing-local-web-resources-in-a-se=
cure-usable-manner-iot-device-configuration-as-a-special-case-00
 vi=
deo:  https://yout=
u=2Ebe/OIlJrUvwDcI?t=3D1649

 and we hope to return at IETF113=2E=







 




Right, looks like SUIB is working on a similar problem=2E Thanks for<=
br>pointing this out=2E In particular, the "Sol #6 Device name DNS" slidelooks quite similar to SNIF CA Proxy (Section 3)=2E However, SUIB pursues=

bigger infrastructural goals such as changing the localhost TLS
conn=
ection policies (I totally agree and really appreciate the effort),
whil=
e SNIF is a functioning solution within the existing
infrastructure, tes=
ted and proven to work in pre-production=2E





The slides may be too vague=2E  Changing the TLS policies is=
 a possible
solution, but probably an impractical one=2E  Neverthel=
ess, many people
(not steeped in the arts, and often failling into the P=
HB category)
think that it is an obvious solution, so we list it in orde=
r to explain why it won't work=2E





Yes, still sad that localhost sl=
ipped through the cracks when the original security standards were written=
=2E




 






 The SUIB problem addresses the challenge of connecting *locally* to =
a
 device,
 and doing it securely=2E  For this to be possible wi=
th RFC6125-DNS-ID
 standard
 browser, we need a name for the device, =
and we need a way to translate
 that
 name into a locally reachable I=
P address=2E

 The SNIF proposal does not quite solve the above probl=
em=2E






 




In fact, I originally designed SNIF to solve this specific problem -<=
br>local-to-local trusted TLS connections=2E





Ah, very nice to know=2E




* Issue a wildcard cert through SNIF CA Proxy
(e=2Eg=2E CN=3D*=2Ed=
omain=2Esnif=2Exyz), set a DNS record for
localhost=2Edomain=2Esnif=2Exy=
z to point to localhost's IPv4/v6, and use
https://localhost=2Edomain=2Esnif=2Exyz (or oth=
er app protocol - imaps
etc)=2E However, looks like some clients treat t=
he localhost IP as
inherently unsecure, and issue a warning ever is the =
cert is perfectly
valid=2E The option is still possible, but the applica=
bility might be
limited=2E





The process we described at

https://specs=2Ema=
nysecured=2Eorg/suib/Solutions/dnsname-embedded-solution

also us=
es a wildcard cert, but has a magic authoritative DNS server
that transl=
ates the left-most label into an A or AAAA record=2E  It's
rather a=
 cute hack, but at least:
  a) it's cachable
  b) it could =
even be calculated locally, if one ignores DNSSEC=2E





Yes, using a local network IP in=
stead of a localhost IP is actually a smart idea=2E
However, inlining th=
e local IP in the hostname, as SUIB does, means you'll have to change the h=
ostname in your client every time your network is changed=2E
I have an t=
hought for SNIF improvement - SNIF connector sends a SNIF DNS command to se=
t a dynamic DNS A/AAAA for a certain hostname within the CN wildcard, and t=
he CA proxy updates the DNS accordingly=2E This way the hostname can be per=
manent, but with dynamic DNS=2E
Another problem - most platforms won't l=
et you bind to port < 1024 unless you're a root=2E Might be ok for a dev=
ice manufacturer, but is a potential show stopper for any user space app=2E=
 Relayed SNIF works around this problem since the listening ports are on th=
e relay=2E





 




* Another option is to override the IP routing rules=2E It is totally=

possible on iOS and Mac through a userspace VPN (only one VPN per
de=
vice though - beware of possible conflicts)=2E In fact I have a
function=
ing solution for it, in beta now -





That doesn't really scale to many different domains=2E=






Totally agreed, I just mentioned=
 that this option works for *some* cases, tun/tap a is possible option too =
if you're a root=2E




 






Still, if SNIF is replacing a manufacturer proprietary call-home prot=
ocol,
there could be advantages from having well reviewed code bases, an=
d
potentially an ecosystem of SNIF Providers that manufacturers couldoutsource






 






to=2E  Azure/Amazon/=2E=2E=2E could easily run such services=2E<=
o:p>






 




I see two options - a SNIF server implemented by each vendor for thei=
r
own devices/services, or a bigger SNIF SaaS implemented by a trustedprovider, used by vendors=2E





Yes, but what's the financial motive for this provider?





(1) For a vendor to run their ow=
n SNIF server: market as a true auditable end-to-end for IoT devices they o=
ffer=2E
(2) For a vendor using SNIF SaaS: market as (1) backed by
{Tr=
ustedBigName}
(3) For a {TrustedBigName} to run SNIF SaaS: collect fees =
from (2) for using their service and big name=2E

As a matter of fact=
, SNIF relay is light on server resources=2E I've been running it on a mini=
mum DigitalOcean virtual server for months with more than a dozen connector=
s,   the server load is a fraction of a percent=2E Of course if s=
omebody connects IoT cameras they can generate some traffic, but IoT vendor=
s already handle it through their proprietary relays=2E




 






SNIF seems very much IPv4 NAT44 focused, and it could benefit from so=
me
understanding of IPv6 and IPv6-over-IPv4 technologies,





 particularly






Teredo=2E






 




SNIF is not exactly focused on v4, it works fine with v6 as well=2E I=
t's
designed to work around NAT, that's true=2E However, IPv6 networks m=
ay
pose issues too - firewalls etc, which will prevent to directly accep=
t
incoming TCP on IPv6 address=2E





Teredo could be used instead and allows the relay to be stateless=
 and
distributed, and devolves to ordinary IPv6 when it is present=2E





Yes, but Teredo is IPv6 specific=
, the world is not strictly IPv6 yet=2E And it's a system level solution, w=
hile SNIF works fine in a user space=2E




 






It clearly has to speak HTTPS only=2E






 




I specified HTTP because PKCS#10 and X=2E509 are inherently secure to=
 be
sent over a plain connection=2E





Yes, but there are privacy concerns which will become a pain, so<=
br>better to just say HTTPS here=2E





I respectfully disagree, still t=
hink HTTP is an easier answer for SNIF=2E The problem with HTTPS is - SNIF =
relay (usually) routes https port to SNIF connectors, and does not serve it=
 within the server=2E Having a dedicated hostname or an alternate port mean=
s than SNIF connectors need additional configuration options, or additional=
 discovery protocols=2E On the other hand, HTTP allows to derive all API UR=
Ls deterministically from the CN=2E
I addressed the possible security co=
ncerns in more details and amended the Security section in the draft=2E
=





 




The best option is the manufacturer I believe=2E The manufacturer can=

have either their own SNIF server, or work with a trusted SaaS=2E This<=
br>way it's zero setup for the end user, and doesn't need any
infrastruc=
ture additions=2E





Agreed, the manufacturer has to provision a credential=2E





Yes I proposed some outlines in =
the security section, more detailed specs are probably better to describe i=
n a separate draft=2E




 




Sure, elliptic curves are better, but some old school clients may hav=
e
problems with them=2E It may make sense to not mention the recommended=

algorithm in the draft, and just to follow the CA's recommendations=2E<=
o:p>





ECDSA acceleration is pretty much ubiquitous, while RSA is not=2E=






Honestly I don't think accelerat=
ion is such a big deal, most of TLS job is symmetric ciphers anyway=2E But =
I agree - it's better to follow the CA suggestions and industry practices=
=2E




 




I believe there's no security issue, as long as the CN entropy is suf=
ficient=2E




 




I specified the X-SNIF-CN: as mandatory, and text/plain body as anoptional duplicate of it=2E To make it cleaner, I can remove the body
f=
rom the specs and say the response body is to be ignored=2E




If both are present, and they don't match, then there is confusio=
n=2E
So just go with one=2E  I think that it should actually be a J=
SON or CBOR payload return=2E





Agreed, I removed the response b=
ody from the draft, going with the header=2E





 






They *aren't* what IANA would call "IP protocols", which would be thi=
ngs
like
TCP, UDP, SCTP, ESP, =2E=2E=2E






 






Has IANA *already* registered port 7123 then?






 




It's not an IP protocol=2E It's a service that listens on TCP 7123, I=

registered with IANA based on a previous version of the document,
be=
fore I turned it into an I-D=2E





I think you should drop the "snif-*" sentence as it makes no sens=
e=2E
You have already allocated TCP port 7123 to the SNIF *service*, so<=
br>that's great=2E





It's actually called "Service Na=
mes" in IANA terminology, sorry for the confusion=2E I updated in the draft=
=2E







--
]    &=
nbsp;          Never tell me t=
he odds!           &=
nbsp;     | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Micha=
el Richardson, Sandelman Software Works      =
  |    IoT architect   [
]  &nbs=
p;  mcr@sandelman=2Eca =
 http://www=2Esandelman=2Eca/&=
nbsp;       |   ruby on rails =
   [






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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45AEA3A0AFE; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A8538CA9; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:53:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id j-ph8OPEw8Ps; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:53:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EED38CA8; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:53:08 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1646509988; bh=3B6Fj53Lm7D403dvp8pM2fc5zyjWXKpcasOuFBfUa4I=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=xNK9wtrkovnpLkGWfKnHPehl1N6vxoyHXHz5dvDFz5q/ZboCv2v3AoLEYR66HLJVS ioSP/oFIfL6B+ssfEjUNOEzKB24mSKIRX3zurbEXCJVZwDAIpq9vAze+mzTBdBZJb2 QQbeHnYdB/LZobeBEYh0c8h5KG7TeLYryXyM86mkNcOJck9aRVEaFvrvuchFpGPI8U pJFJhtZx4w5i52F2pC378KEqB83ASasbSyoebQzVtV42ie+UF5eUawPTmaTDGh51kb rRfy0aZjwvg0MRIl9nUM5FlOHdaNqQdG+962KWnSgmkMDdij2cIX8ub2N56k5lNwR3 CU1gmAfz15Sig== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2457CD; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:43:56 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "secdispatch\@ietf.org" , Jim Zubov cc: Hannes Tschofenig , "iotops\@ietf.org" , "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com>, <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Iotops] [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 19:44:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim Zubov wrote: > I just want to emphasize once again that the relay is end to end TLS. > There are some IoT management solutions on the market, both open sour= ce > and proprietary, but as far as I can tell none of them fully follows > the end to end paradigm. I believe it's worth having a universal > cross-vendor solution that handles SNIF device onboarding, maintains > the credentials in a local secure storage, and consolidates https bas= ed > management interface hosted by individual devices through SNIF. Even if SNIF winds up "just" being a standardized way to call-home, I think that has value. I think that some text needs to be added contrasting SNIF to UPnP and RFC6887 (Port Control Protocol). What I haven't heard any comments in on the SECDISPATCH point of view about what to do with this document. Have the SECDISPATCH chairs put it on the agenda, or is there any agreement that maybe IOTOPS should dispatch it? Hannes: what do you think? =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iPMEAQEKAB0WIQSk7ZHEG9TCGBNASfm/sjw/rPYc8wUCYiO9fAAKCRC/sjw/rPYc 88KwBf9sU7BKrkflIFz3rS0mPu+ZyiIHYcWdDkwMMbiqB6tIk2B/5ZUvt/urhXaY 7js3zwkusEdcELV0qVXixUbwxb1As81Y/o4MK2bjkLPGBV5nyfmTkD9EduQS4fim PsJenCqC9JnrA1Vcxbc+mcNWLw+689bVyjhFVhvtbW3xexGx7WwHEBEkAIys9cdm pJ0BmK4ZBKJvSv0vP+kHmyl5V4qBoSI/kM8iq2XcVjRXcnkIohEPv6TzhmkfFh4p mHFibUs= =LA4u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Mar 5 11:49:36 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5B63A0AFE for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:49:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nc8pmxq-Ch4e for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51CB13A0B11 for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id c18so13058194ioc.6 for ; Sat, 05 Mar 2022 11:49:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IJfrC52m1u9nkBdZBayL/hU/5Umt8cjuxnhcX5Xv87w=; b=40NJY1W9ry+LtJ94GkPG1A91/9/4euASBqD93YBOKj+cBGUwfOsjAEEvgNfYa6LX5Y hqA4Lyg7Y7AVuD75Me38gMr4wAwWp/sov32My7yThqFl0LuS+pBVbjR1wnJohV7Zhuvw QMNK+qDk17Q6G1y1Fi4NHlv+THsXER8xcS1C57V4fgcTCl79Pfj9AEzRFk7V3bUBRLzg icWy3pC4lT4Vuxc5We3EIk1Njlk5eDJzp51/Lu5MmrG3S6w4uKrgI8cFPWH+XdagAkOH cFyE4XJFz5g5/tg+QXTfS9tUS9LCOH2/3VLvIp0EGhIGGm//fzFr7541QTrFg/Dl7B+4 ewdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IJfrC52m1u9nkBdZBayL/hU/5Umt8cjuxnhcX5Xv87w=; b=cSdtNodb/qJk7OYPfZGi86vrY+DMdkgkKx+Q13OnyHOEFhg3rR6Bzl/e2C97AIZFTe Gnv0lDdbPCT5yfYeQKV6IfaQ1xGKD/yP1Jt9AiEE+8MpITTwerlHa0673k/fV2VluhzR c+H1xclNuOhOx+509HE6P49PcCumS4D6ws1NS0N9Bmtcxdbaa/qlzgGSkJXG1HsqFe3T RUcknCQow/bbWrAJ67r3IE2EPROU+P7Z82et/PmjWwo7k00rqP+GHya8qZII2aOHfDQZ 6Z7/YlNGruwVQzOoBRRhRMliVQANqbuMG7lFO9M+vVkHRsi+wyXnW7Bf3VgtuANfYnMU gkug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530XtgwmkR5A7iTgvu3HsncNQMhvtLPBleQ0ju5KV0Yd0xIlVKMJ IpLBx7EiWCJCzWUWtpXljRcq/2pDvkW6Mj4B8nEsAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxEVFsd03Rn/BaQvFblPyFHt3OXynNS+3Qo9TLWOaJ9/J0QEN8/Biwq0HRqAuxpSiTz8mMKar5ehd9L72reGmk= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:d60d:0:b0:640:9e90:c1c4 with SMTP id w13-20020a5ed60d000000b006409e90c1c4mr3941293iom.0.1646509751178; Sat, 05 Mar 2022 11:49:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com> <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> <6296.1646509436@localhost> In-Reply-To: <6296.1646509436@localhost> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:48:35 -0800 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: "secdispatch@ietf.org" , Jim Zubov , Hannes Tschofenig , "anima@ietf.org" , "iotops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d6afef05d97dec49" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Iotops] [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 19:49:18 -0000 --000000000000d6afef05d97dec49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:44 AM Michael Richardson wrote: > > Jim Zubov wrote: > > I just want to emphasize once again that the relay is end to end TL= S. > > There are some IoT management solutions on the market, both open > source > > and proprietary, but as far as I can tell none of them fully follow= s > > the end to end paradigm. I believe it's worth having a universal > > cross-vendor solution that handles SNIF device onboarding, maintain= s > > the credentials in a local secure storage, and consolidates https > based > > management interface hosted by individual devices through SNIF. > > Even if SNIF winds up "just" being a standardized way to call-home, I thi= nk > that has value. I think that some text needs to be added contrasting > SNIF > to UPnP and RFC6887 (Port Control Protocol). > > What I haven't heard any comments in on the SECDISPATCH point of view abo= ut > what to do with this document. I provided some comments at the end of my review. Briefly, I have doubts that this is the best technical approach and so I think if we are to work on this problem we should start by working out the problem statement and requirements first= . Have the SECDISPATCH chairs put it on the > agenda, I think putting it on the SECDISPATCH agenda would be appropriate > or is there any agreement that maybe IOTOPS should dispatch it? > I think that would be a bad idea. There's nothing really IoT-specific here. -Ekr > Hannes: what do you think? > > > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > --000000000000d6afef05d97dec49 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:44 AM Micha= el Richardson <mcr+ietf@sande= lman.ca> wrote:

Jim Zubov <ietf-list@commercebyte.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I just want to emphasize once again that the relay is en= d to end TLS.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > There are some IoT management solutions on the market, b= oth open source
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > and proprietary, but as far as I can tell none of them f= ully follows
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > the end to end paradigm. I believe it's worth having= a universal
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > cross-vendor solution that handles SNIF device onboardin= g, maintains
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > the credentials in a local secure storage, and consolida= tes https based
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > management interface hosted by individual devices throug= h SNIF.

Even if SNIF winds up "just" being a standardized way to call-hom= e, I think
that has value.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think that some text needs to be added contr= asting SNIF
to UPnP and RFC6887 (Port Control Protocol).

What I haven't heard any comments in on the SECDISPATCH point of view a= bout
what to do with this document.=C2=A0

I prov= ided some comments at the end of my review. Briefly, I have doubts that thi= s
is the best technical approach and so I think if we are to work= on this problem
we should start by working out the problem state= ment and requirements first.


=C2=A0 Have the SECDISPATCH chairs = put it on the
agenda,

I think putting it on the SECDISPAT= CH agenda would be appropriate

=C2=A0
or is there any agreement t= hat maybe IOTOPS should dispatch it?

I = think that would be a bad idea. There's nothing really IoT-specific her= e.

-Ekr



Hannes: what do you think?


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting )
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software Works Inc, Otta= wa and Worldwide




_______________________________________________
Anima mailing list
Anima@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima
--000000000000d6afef05d97dec49-- From nobody Sat Mar 5 12:15:57 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630CA3A0B55; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:15:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wER8jOkIJPhU; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 822A23A0B5B; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 12:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6460E38CD1; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 15:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id zGZmMz4sEb7A; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 15:24:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7392338B20; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 15:24:40 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1646511880; bh=3lNcGikwMsQwwZf4tJM0t71t1ZqZGr7taQqQQVLEipA=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=vIHo/xvSOg6++olONzvxBt05ZgzsOPu0wn6teKgnQQTwdVpi5dggk5WT7FP8NBVjf 4ACX2oyNJJLhqTk0vb21DcPEdYcvjySEDWh+Q+5jsk4RmrWVq2kOnMwt70XqWVgisp 39VhAUb+AFhUvqNckLlJ76dzNttsnsqSXTBYTER+uXLW+YZpiKxCdjxRs+Nx5EbzjA bIY2eR4s4SmuyldlB9E+rI3dpegDeKNNBscBvCGIEonLZ5liWGzG3RLMowuqsmNzDF DXuECSHeUjR4nhfg3HMdKbfn5RVkD2wF2h1XQH9Y8bBA/o4hnlKDo5G1hl+RCf24sT gip22JtLN9dSw== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069207CD; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 15:15:28 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Hannes Tschofenig cc: Jim Zubov , "secdispatch\@ietf.org" , "iotops\@ietf.org" , "anima\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com>, <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Secdispatch] [Iotops] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 20:15:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Based on what you wrote below I was actually wondering if the use of > TLS or DTLS at the application layer wouldn=E2=80=99t even be a better It took me a few moments to realize you meant ATLAS. There is also, now, oblivious HTTP/TLS. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iPMEAQEKAB0WIQSk7ZHEG9TCGBNASfm/sjw/rPYc8wUCYiPE3wAKCRC/sjw/rPYc 85aIBf0brGXKr6G0JslqJaRcZKbVKotfQEbFY+GDupMZXXLcEEIOrKs4Okj4e8jP /q5otgC8BR+5wjB7cuWsq8LNH81DCdY09sygHKUf6nOi+VNwBATY8OSKGRDy6aIG SoRH1m/FSn4+bZQ9cl/P80IVeBHfShxyBfqYRvhC8eUM+Z3vPy1q5nINh9zHsBG8 HQD+vXt80aNFX8fL+5coZhvCI6Yh0xIWGBx/WdjH/MDnwMOxailT+iwS9QS180Ev 0hFhWlg= =3xG7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Mar 5 14:06:27 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC0B3A0D35; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:05:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=commercebyte.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VIdie205eJbO; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean1.commercebyte.com (ocean1.commercebyte.com [104.131.120.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AF453A0D32; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:05:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=commercebyte.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date; bh=ywXPKJjpJyWsBL2ELGS7cWGzz3ntmncojLcMaqCFNY4=; b=AVlhfmP0G5UHYYYA4hiTx7SUYwupFHonUSwCzDc5bkEY9XG0f7giX/bZ6iV7m5cWcZUUdefWrCDie0EgIMuNxS1gpoxWK8BwRQRMqOwtn4vXvAtWf6ngb0hHoTQI/I5b8Wp/aXShVPpkbeQLmP38qAPoiNLL+tYulE24fSF3cIE=; Received: from [47.204.174.73] (port=40730 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ocean1.commercebyte.com with esmtpsa (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1nQcX2-0000EF-HP; Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:05:44 -0500 Received: from [206.81.2.95]:7120 (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by [192.168.254.152]:49416 (localhost) with VESmail ESMTP Proxy 1.59 (encrypt=FALSE mode=FALLBACK); Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:05:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 17:04:57 -0500 From: Jim Zubov To: secdispatch@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , Hannes Tschofenig CC: "secdispatch@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" , "iotops@ietf.org" , Jim Zubov User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <16442.1646511327@localhost> References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com>, <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> <16442.1646511327@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----LI0I12QGORW6V91BMZIZHG09AW0CJ6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ocean1.commercebyte.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - commercebyte.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ocean1.commercebyte.com: authenticated_id: jz@nixob.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Secdispatch] [Iotops] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 22:05:53 -0000 ------LI0I12QGORW6V91BMZIZHG09AW0CJ6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Hannes that a pre-existing relay infrastructure can be used to= tunnel TLS in place of SNIF relay=2E The CA proxy is still needed to maint= ain the cert=2E As per Eric Rescorla's arguments, i can also envision a possibility to upg= rade an established SNIF control socket to MASQUE over H2, or to use MASQUE= over QUIC as an alternative=2E However I still don't see any added value i= n doing so, opposed to multiple added complications, as I don't see a pract= ical case with a large number of concurrent SNIF service connections=2E If anybody has a different opinion please chime in=2E On March 5, 2022 3:15:27 PM EST, Michael Richardson wrote: > >Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > > Based on what you wrote below I was actually wondering if the use o= f > > TLS or DTLS at the application layer wouldn=E2=80=99t even be a bet= ter > >It took me a few moments to realize you meant ATLAS=2E >There is also, now, oblivious HTTP/TLS=2E > >-- >Michael Richardson =2E o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > ------LI0I12QGORW6V91BMZIZHG09AW0CJ6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Hannes that a pre-existing relay infr= astructure can be used to tunnel TLS in place of SNIF relay=2E The CA proxy= is still needed to maintain the cert=2E

As per Eric Rescorla's argu= ments, i can also envision a possibility to upgrade an established SNIF con= trol socket to MASQUE over H2, or to use MASQUE over QUIC as an alternative= =2E However I still don't see any added value in doing so, opposed to multi= ple added complications, as I don't see a practical case with a large numbe= r of concurrent SNIF service connections=2E
If anybody has a different o= pinion please chime in=2E

On March 5, 202= 2 3:15:27 PM EST, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman=2Eca> wrote:= 

Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes=2ETsch=
ofenig@arm=2Ecom> wrote:
Based on what you wrote below I was actually wondering if the use ofTLS or DTLS at the application layer wouldn=E2=80=99t even be a better

It took me a few moments to realize you meant ATLAS=2EThere is also, now, oblivious HTTP/TLS=2E

--
Michael Richardson =
<mcr+IETF@sandelman=2Eca>   =2E o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulting )
 =
          Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide



------LI0I12QGORW6V91BMZIZHG09AW0CJ6-- From nobody Sat Mar 5 14:28:37 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BC23A0D58; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:28:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TTkd00A7CRPP; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8255E3A0D51; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5466638CC5; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:37:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id lDQ8XiIamZt2; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D3638CC3; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:37:00 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1646519820; bh=/NRgkXE8y2KcNRMIgp3e8LwmKBeMWEh8dLr78Lv11aw=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=1ntN62jvxcCpFSE5ypFkzTeu2cdL1S0C/K7zWlcnPqAwN7XLmHJZRUzprWeLIr4eY MquZdek5245FlOHz0YhD3PbSxxtJk8RpnoS1f0zyHWpTCpetlCkv1n8r68vGIAfAw1 oMXlbFnuBw6PUgXAh/kmV0lUx+HsNvt3+bMC7g+zxTLr0s7SriCbX6miFdnYTCaM7I JjYlcezrzN+ThCTKgRBrWFytANEbA5CMuUA68mydzUTLmryP6kHn5TD1Y3KZ9WKSPI RRpp+n3KP7j0XDFK7Jul1+G7e0u/mAeBWWWR9kOGvHecF4SO8jvkMp4fuIfr+7qZZU GkCS9aTEZfRRg== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8D266A; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:27:48 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Eric Rescorla , "secdispatch\@ietf.org" , Jim Zubov , Hannes Tschofenig , "anima\@ietf.org" , "iotops\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com> <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> <6296.1646509436@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Iotops] [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 22:28:00 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric Rescorla wrote: > I provided some comments at the end of my review. Briefly, I have dou= bts > that this > is the best technical approach and so I think if we are to work on th= is > problem > we should start by working out the problem statement and requirements= first. I would agree with you. In particular, I think that UPnP or PCP, in combination with some kind of dynamic DNS infrastructure, could do everything SNIF does, and do it in a far more decentralized fashion. So what is it that SNIF does that is truly different? >> Have the SECDISPATCH chairs put it on the >> agenda, > I think putting it on the SECDISPATCH agenda would be appropriate Good. >> or is there any agreement that maybe IOTOPS should dispatch it? > I think that would be a bad idea. There's nothing really IoT-specific= here. There is often nothing IoT specific about many things. There is however a community of people who understand the set of tradeoff in deploying systems at large scale that have no human at the helm. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iPMEAQEKAB0WIQSk7ZHEG9TCGBNASfm/sjw/rPYc8wUCYiPj4wAKCRC/sjw/rPYc 8zW1Bf4y2JnW5465qzZxol3PnKLU4pQ1PofoKw77a8eAUNiNvn3Hob3LFBfjwTBJ 72Gw+pcgfb7Ww50aJmt9fa3RAR+5VpB68YXU561uzwEmN13sHcToqv0FFtThq9M6 SAiWcnmS2zbHXVrrWE0ua0EyQXtidCXD0NrsLeUJ/LpFZiE6qbbJQNbzltpX3Njh TZgkn2uhMv4gChRwkwnA5AiHTeknKFiMX6QBhwiiyjqThNx5qxe7XiYAoqF74gcY 7l34TVQ= =REA/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Mar 5 14:47:27 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F97D3A0DD3 for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:46:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.905 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.905 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9dKhdbviryXX for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 783B03A0DD1 for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id d19so13329435ioc.8 for ; Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:46:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EgtbuW9z4EyWSCZ2kgxiH7sG4IRPplCeugl7xSA21YU=; b=qxqtphbw9DB6uwd5z66hzGQnR7pAE85bFl0DU/0T16uHLq9jD/2UJbbGVXfIHwPWOr 8qTWtT+6H20XOn5eTo9ENcbXKLd6dt2CHn6ZJkdFN2mf4hid6OnvWXYp7eIR5jOYVaBz If7i32DkS5XY1Qa7Vb6NHCyqTq7BjS4ZmaCAtJRY9ACC3MchAXmaHKQjM4M/JjXkTenk L7DFjJVR9rFGvT9fr0eXgnqqLA8U8vaDzMO2oz83/5HPsD7QsdhbazDyFAq4/rumr1GG /9derRjNLSB6kKlL4E2GUZZV40miF0K6WaMjnyI/COX0kLtsA/DgE11wJpM/8ktP8MH9 e/tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EgtbuW9z4EyWSCZ2kgxiH7sG4IRPplCeugl7xSA21YU=; b=q0bdlfz3b7wC0mwXatmFtZ1wPdbu5YUf67p3Vp6gpOwjXXJ2PvUnqWcHN7K8Es9wLV n/wFmR/W7CRBF1mD50VCJW7QwXCRt4Qs2YBN+G5YWWmw0rxvgUO9EqaJdd+1VhDD9Mag GHbBHWREZm4jXPjWzuor08B3Ca897P6j811oAxhZF3D4oDPBB8Y8MKJ3Ch+E7ac5xQi2 1tykHKy+iluwUXqRJCHC8xwJagIjic7rmsLMp4KHGb20dIdL8fZv+wEYyrnJcR94ofpe BXqX80923W7EkgfRnfQfAigo9GmxVOieOzsoQdK6JPeUjj2MUkpcdmB1q67j2WICo8K1 6ATg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531XI9xzOQAaZVYWLBClmwrUvnPk+QcoCjX4xXh8bIq5bbDfbPne EWzeC0lo11pbFa9N0rgMHlAHeObAXcKX29c91lWsFQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzt1rirroXpirILwyPlTBvA+sY4XhYbsfH3k8wiMOtaYTAhrDBlJWKMjkJcAJtVWo5yxuR+9NtoFtmyNjNvvAw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:218b:b0:317:9e47:bf43 with SMTP id s11-20020a056638218b00b003179e47bf43mr4432434jaj.20.1646520404553; Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:46:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com> <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> <6296.1646509436@localhost> <22243.1646519268@localhost> In-Reply-To: <22243.1646519268@localhost> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 14:46:08 -0800 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson Cc: "secdispatch@ietf.org" , Jim Zubov , Hannes Tschofenig , "anima@ietf.org" , "iotops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d44ef205d9806728" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Iotops] [Secdispatch] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 22:46:52 -0000 --000000000000d44ef205d9806728 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 2:27 PM Michael Richardson wrote: > > Eric Rescorla wrote: > > >> or is there any agreement that maybe IOTOPS should dispatch it? > > > I think that would be a bad idea. There's nothing really > IoT-specific here. > > There is often nothing IoT specific about many things. > There is however a community of people who understand the set of tradeoff > in > deploying systems at large scale that have no human at the helm. > I think it would be fine to consult IOTOPs. I'm merely saying that I don't think it's a good idea to have them dispatch something that is so obviously generic. -Ekr --000000000000d44ef205d9806728 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 2:27 PM Michae= l Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandel= man.ca> wrote:

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtf= m.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> or is there any agreement that maybe IOTOPS should d= ispatch it?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I think that would be a bad idea. There's nothing re= ally IoT-specific here.

There is often nothing IoT specific about many things.
There is however a community of people who understand the set of tradeoff i= n
deploying systems at large scale that have no human at the helm.

I think it would be fine to consult IOTOPs. I'= ;m merely saying that I don't think it's
a good idea to h= ave them dispatch something that is so obviously generic.

-Ekr
--000000000000d44ef205d9806728-- From nobody Sat Mar 5 18:52:29 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970C83A094B; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:52:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 224CHIq9MdXc; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC19E3A094C; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D06938C77; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:01:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 4i-GLi1S203U; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:01:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD7638C75; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:01:26 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1646535686; bh=We79EVz6SiV9vaB/V7RQDXXZ49HWCbf8FmlphIpB3a0=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:Cc:In-Reply-To:From; b=cg2b2Js5fY03ids1pr1ZnsHcOyzev8gfIf8zt7tddKutXTRU+oUs4rGVk8gjESM4u NBdjjUBY0yEm00Nbly9sfyL8KKZxvaQ+BWMp4WkxgwSlQsj7ROWdEIilja3hhLSLZo XHuJsxyS0XYC77x0W0JjGWeuk+8EjKnQCh8Eqqk9xRrdDehE/5P1B094g3m2xfjNdS UPHhDRCZbuygsafvrvoUsZLTLZ/AqBSl9r5kPk1uhk+557BEN+LYL86OspPiXVm1A4 0jmLTyDsAtU96iVB5iTbnBPWxLej16eZWK9aDTLHVZmrkcGyAhYimThij9tvcVPezV dt3k9WHHYRjnA== Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14DD37CD; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:52:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:52:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1 Content-Language: en-US To: anima@ietf.org References: From: Michael Richardson Cc: netconf@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] RFC8366bis at IETF113 (was Re: Call for agenda items/attendance ANIMA @ IETF 113) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2022 02:52:26 -0000 On 2022-02-22 11:37, tte@cs.fau.de wrote: > Please submit your requests for Agenda items in reply to this email, > as early as possible, so that we can upload an agenda more timely > than we typically do. > > Note that you do not need to have the slides by the time you're > asking for the slot ! > > Please send requests to anima-chairs@ietf.org. > Copy anima@ietf.org if you like. > > Topic/Title > Name of Presenter(s) > Length of time requested > If applicable: name of draft(s) discussed Topic: RFC8366bis Presenter: Michael Richardson Time requested: 15 minutes Drafts: draft-ietf-anima-rfc8366bis > Also: Once you have your slides, go to: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/session/anima Slides (5 of them) uploaded. Intent is to focus on discussion. This is a diff against RFC8366, which is actually instructive. https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8366&url2=draft-ietf-anima-rfc8366bis-00 ANIMA is in the last slot on Friday afternoon. It is not conflicted with netmod or netconf, or any other IoT interesting groups, I think. From nobody Sun Mar 6 15:17:50 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785BC3A0E06; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 15:17:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164660866227.10180.1281930910404894223@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2022 15:17:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud-03.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2022 23:17:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : BRSKI Cloud Registrar Authors : Owen Friel Rifaat Shekh-Yusef Michael Richardson Filename : draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud-03.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2022-03-06 Abstract: This document specifies the behaviour of a BRSKI Cloud Registrar, and how a pledge can interact with a BRSKI Cloud Registrar when bootstrapping. RFCED REMOVE: It is being actively worked on at https://github.com/ anima-wg/brski-cloud The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud-03.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud-03 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Sun Mar 6 18:06:19 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AE03A093A for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 18:06:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acBG53szgDPX for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 18:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FF473A0817 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 18:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD5738CCA for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 21:15:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id s3-HihJQpLzP for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 21:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF5C38CC6 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 21:15:23 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1646619323; bh=6WXtWvIS1pvPZumYrJYAJdfKVEf4KyaBNukRNJipl2s=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=CpMr02RVW8dk/CjGdmWSSG9SpW9TLuVPaVZOp3MhenguYCM2lUnmW8Mp6Rc6Et+bM dgfAjS/d+AIr91AY54auiOCgqiQr4nKecTR7AmWdTGcdBchzKuK3jJVF7uVHCmcq44 gds0At47+JwUa2t8yYgU58fyMHMH6nSiM8PHYPt9Xq/qNnyWuxcz5sFB0y5cnnHUG+ zHgN7XDuZddsk8j9nQ9nZVKdtiqpucK+ePunJX0Z9dFxgOA6krYBycJJPPeA2XMwHE Wui4SMrlE3W/cIzljk0S9RJu+MfCCvtMa2fp/ojdY4up3njUbta3GBdpRDZQG+jKSe xO6ztx182pOpw== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F373B865 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 21:06:05 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <164661793331.9063.10876907349131517548@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <164661793331.9063.10876907349131517548@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 02:06:17 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A new version of I-D, draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations= -05.txt > has been successfully submitted by Michael Richardson and posted to t= he > IETF repository. > Name: draft-richardson-anima-registrar-considerations > Revision: 05 > Title: Operational Considerations for BRSKI Registrar > Html: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-richardson-anim= a-registrar-considerations-05.html > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-richardson-= anima-registrar-considerations-05 I have posted a new version of my draft on operational considerations for a BRSKI Registrar. The document was not renewed during 2021 due to other priorities. I wrote this document to explore some of the design issues around using BRS= KI in a variety of network scenarios: Tier-1 ISPs, Enterprises, and Home Netw= orks. The different deployment scenarios do not call for the same technologies in the registrar, and this is part of the point of this document. One of things in this document is the Enterprise/Tier-1 asynchronous deployment model, where the "Northbound" BRSKI-MASA interface is not direct= ly connected to the "Southbound" BRSKI-EST interface. (See figure 3). In such a case, it may not be the case that the TLS Client Certificate used by the BRSKI-MASA interface is identical to the Registrar/Domain certificat= e. This explanation was useful in getting some of the final discuss details in RFC8995, which were further clarified in constrainted-voucher section 4, about pinning. In creating Figure 1, with Denver/SanJose/NYC/Frankfurt/etc. it was my intention to discuss issues of onboarding, database synchronization, certificate renewal (via EST)... in the face of network partition. That content has not yet made it into this document. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iPMEAQEKAB0WIQSk7ZHEG9TCGBNASfm/sjw/rPYc8wUCYiVojQAKCRC/sjw/rPYc 85a+Bf9NmcJMTOWZ/fx9uB/SFBDq2jdGaIQh/fMhI/cgAD19zTJNxr6r6lfmKmrx /AjhMxBmONHPZaHpn+HIeJ8gryHdUABvuJAgG3Fe3Fkle3ktm1U+RLyLcXjtfL99 Sroo/7IS/mgee0iUF8zFeSYlKbDNeeJqcmyb2WEfczDCu3tt4oYIzjG6uNYBIHYH k4DwstIngjCTjELGSNEJ62kFjfO7jRMbNPnSa4Trktc6POq7F5Ox+gibD5427zsL +99Fe8A= =2xdx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Mar 6 19:31:00 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108773A0CF0; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:30:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=commercebyte.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oW2P0v6KwtSc; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean1.commercebyte.com (ocean1.commercebyte.com [104.131.120.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 844D93A0D3C; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:30:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=commercebyte.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=YkQ5OtXQJZkMUoHqJ9ynomA1Bb1Vt4hsQfCgRUmKUGA=; b=pH43SdXpwygJyXBx2zWBWsvJathkOl29LSjfMeJoFslrw7AwgR2hUxG3F5+f5lKNekHkuE/0y0V2b5veRBPGCV9caFvsVymusikpCXLuN5pvabd5smYUVl1XvqHKhJrc3zsSByrTjuQujrplLEK0hByXisDe9NnCXAKzVJmZe+M=; Received: from [47.204.174.73] (port=45334 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ocean1.commercebyte.com with esmtpsa (UNKNOWN:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1nR44w-0007yC-DU; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 22:30:34 -0500 Received: from [206.81.2.95]:7120 (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by [192.168.254.152]:41020 (localhost) with VESmail ESMTP Proxy 1.59 (encrypt=FALSE mode=FALLBACK); Sun, 06 Mar 2022 22:30:33 -0500 Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2022 22:30:24 -0500 From: Jim Zubov To: secdispatch@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , Eric Rescorla , "secdispatch@ietf.org" , Jim Zubov , Hannes Tschofenig , "anima@ietf.org" , "iotops@ietf.org" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <22243.1646519268@localhost> References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com> <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> <6296.1646509436@localhost> <22243.1646519268@localhost> Message-ID: <1075E99A-C00A-455E-97E8-2A29BA175F8F@commercebyte.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ocean1.commercebyte.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - commercebyte.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ocean1.commercebyte.com: authenticated_id: jz@nixob.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [Secdispatch] [Iotops] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 03:30:52 -0000 On March 5, 2022 5:27:48 PM EST, Michael Richardson wrote: > >Eric Rescorla wrote: > > I provided some comments at the end of my review=2E Briefly, I have= doubts > > that this > > is the best technical approach and so I think if we are to work on = this > > problem > > we should start by working out the problem statement and requiremen= ts first=2E > >I would agree with you=2E > >In particular, I think that UPnP or PCP, in combination with some kind >of dynamic DNS infrastructure, could do everything SNIF does, and do it i= n a >far more decentralized fashion=2E > >So what is it that SNIF does that is truly different? I had a discussion with Eric about it=2E SNIF can work for an IoT device behind NAT or firewall through the relay= =2E For IoT devices that have a clean static IP it's possible to use DDNS t= o directly connect to the device instead of the relay (not described in my = draft but is fairly easy to implement through a peripheral process)=2E Regarding the certs, a CA, for example Let's Encrypt, operates in terms of= a 'Registered Domain', e=2Eg=2E something=2Ecom, that you purchase from a = TLD=2E Registered domains are not free, hence having a unique registered do= main per an IoT device is not affordable - even if it's $2/yr nobody's goin= g to eat that cost, and very few IoT end users will be willing to set up th= eir own additional billing=2E Therefore, hostnames for individual IoT devices should be subdomains of a = certain registered domain=2E Since a CA sets limits on API calls within eac= h registered domain, if you allow IoT devices to randomly interact with the= CA you set yourself on a path to a DoS=2E So, having a CA proxy that maint= ains control over the DNS zone and interacts with the CA (without having ac= cess to anybody's private keys) while enforcing anti-abuse policies sounds = like a good solution=2E As for the security risk, it lies in the CA challenge=2E Having a DDNS ser= ver for a zone poses same risk as a CA proxy that has sole control over a D= NS zone, with additional headaches and risks of DDNS authentication for eac= h IoT device=2E If anybody disagrees or has something to add - please chime in=2E > > >> Have the SECDISPATCH chairs put it on the > >> agenda, > > > I think putting it on the SECDISPATCH agenda would be appropriate > >Good=2E > > >> or is there any agreement that maybe IOTOPS should dispatch it? > > > I think that would be a bad idea=2E There's nothing really IoT-spec= ific here=2E > >There is often nothing IoT specific about many things=2E >There is however a community of people who understand the set of tradeoff= in >deploying systems at large scale that have no human at the helm=2E > >-- >Michael Richardson =2E o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T co= nsulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > From nobody Sun Mar 6 19:45:49 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7536E3A0C1C; Sun, 6 Mar 2022 19:45:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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03:45:26 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Jim Zubov , secdispatch@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , Eric Rescorla , Hannes Tschofenig , "anima@ietf.org" , "iotops@ietf.org" References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com> <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> <685366A1-01F4-4788-B025-0F5F4CE7947F@commercebyte.com> <665685D3-B9AA-4A5E-B5B0-33D313A40716@commercebyte.com> <6296.1646509436@localhost> <22243.1646519268@localhost> <1075E99A-C00A-455E-97E8-2A29BA175F8F@commercebyte.com> From: Stephen Farrell In-Reply-To: <1075E99A-C00A-455E-97E8-2A29BA175F8F@commercebyte.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------lpr8kEKEbcaT3HJxYZIsZj6U" X-ClientProxiedBy: DU2PR04CA0284.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:28c::19) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) MIME-Version: 1.0 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Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 03:45:45 -0000 --------------lpr8kEKEbcaT3HJxYZIsZj6U Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------30Le0bjotYBPvT00EHjebSTf"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Jim Zubov , secdispatch@ietf.org, Michael Richardson , Eric Rescorla , Hannes Tschofenig , "anima@ietf.org" , "iotops@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: ***SPAM**** Re: [Secdispatch] [Anima] [Iotops] I-D: Deploying Publicly Trusted TLS Servers on IoT Devices Using SNI-based End-to-End TLS Forwarding (SNIF) References: <0075B437-024A-4D84-ABD7-92FE8DAFA59F@commercebyte.com> <1865.1644434146@localhost> <4026.1644516168@localhost> 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<164666831266.28976.7075049229320892419@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 07:51:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-03.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:51:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : JWS signed Voucher Artifacts for Bootstrapping Protocols Authors : Michael Richardson Thomas Werner Filename : draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-03.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2022-03-07 Abstract: RFC8366 defines a digital artifact called voucher as a YANG-defined JSON document that has been signed using a Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) structure. This memo introduces a variant of the voucher structure in which CMS is replaced by the JSON Object Signing and Encryption (JOSE) mechanism described in RFC7515 to better support use-cases in which JOSE is preferred over CMS. In addition to explaining how the format is created, MIME types are registered and examples are provided. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-03 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Mon Mar 7 12:55:02 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51FD73A0F16 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 12:54:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOxsdnQRHeKB for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 12:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com (mail-pj1-x102f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 918783A09EF for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 12:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id z12-20020a17090ad78c00b001bf022b69d6so356218pju.2 for ; Mon, 07 Mar 2022 12:54:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=716X7x1HFNm02R5mGvP73by4t4kMMrsPStzAcFMDnKU=; b=kHSY/EYcapUB4vj+xSVSoslrtLrufhigp5efAVUhTnL7RIY4hDBm79iUToX3He3xWg zNvxOynvdeBlQJnSXWaHbkRu+3AGQ7OmhvJmkgVrzEDa2mhtRDgz7qvvEjqqEv2nNHof QFn8bIsTaiF9lin84veDf1MFbxsGK0+V72y3YrkWFX4hDjs7uUX9ud8Ale/d9wuKWDAX y82IaquSGY+ztCBpvhjPgSwbFpQ3NRfN8fkRl+9XvmzzJ2IDg+8dfcuoTTOAWt9o1NPU b6AQvVtALqeJ0k8+a67WD5r2lsfh+48lmc2LKNeBrtnqMw9UjlubL6Vn0klUhu8ST539 YAVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=716X7x1HFNm02R5mGvP73by4t4kMMrsPStzAcFMDnKU=; b=d9Xf7k1px4cZFJKCgCO59x/V4R3J5yHTdmbbE8XAWxuDcAqg/MfhEBymEdeZkd7Lva jI2vcu/ywz1cpb9XZ+NXPIeHXv29edZCXR8Q9dCCaiZ2B/efdknf/1FCp7+GcbGTLXYA xmSCTyKm1MEImbw6FrnoZCtD9jT0XYSoIA+o20C2X9W8y9O+Kp3tf2Nezhg342W7aML/ mb7sCBah0mK83QsuBxr0gytug3AZd/53xC2XEPqR2Yk+cXYfO31TDrEiyW6RX5uzNrT+ D25moYbhZwaAgScJxCj13D8psKo1D5IDF0omnpu3BZvi4n5ycYEPBz9d5QlNMwvyrMjm OHQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530qFGFYNR0+nAsqv9kT2cm5KDWm7omoFDUZvTOz77xQGpD23OTA cI8Yo+EaIJ7qRpM1zxHIAKG5MvGwxfgxGA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrv5MKf72A4HvIoEY4sd6ZnpFvaTBh3TiHX2w8ok8Ec0onQ+iczEb/5YpdHVDip/SjOkZ2pw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b945:b0:14e:e5c4:7bcd with SMTP id h5-20020a170902b94500b0014ee5c47bcdmr14022943pls.48.1646686458588; Mon, 07 Mar 2022 12:54:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6-20020a639d06000000b0037e47a2eca0sm9723817pgd.40.2022.03.07.12.54.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Mar 2022 12:54:17 -0800 (PST) To: Toerless Eckert Cc: Toerless Eckert , anima@ietf.org References: <72d1ae7b-a707-ab20-806f-e4967ca250a1@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <712d1ed9-a02e-cfd3-e5ba-7d016870e82c@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 09:54:12 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA: pls comment: draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig-01 / draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd-03 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 20:54:59 -0000 On 08-Mar-22 02:40, Toerless Eckert wrote: > Thanks, Brian > > I hope i captured your concerns correctly in github: > > https://github.com/anima-wg/grasp-dns/issues/3 Yes, thanks. > > For draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-config i am a bit at a loss when & why > one would apply the encodings defined there. Is this meant to be > ?mandatory? objective parameters whenever you flood ? No, it would be a stand-alone objective. I was looking for a way to solve one problem (how to tell an entire AN that the default GRASP maximum message size should be changed) and decided to generalise the solution for any possible GRASP config action. So I stole from your proposal. Possibly we should suggest a recommended way of using CBOR or JSON maps in any GRASP objective, whenever that degree of extensibility is needed. > In which case > i would have to see that i make grasp-dnssd include these parameters because > it is meant to flood ?? No, I don't that that is necessary. > > Could you maybe give an example ? I hope I've clarified enough that you don't need an example. The code I cited reads in a JSON file, constructs a (Python) map that reflects that file, and embeds it in a GRASP flood. I've also included an ASA in my GRASP core, that receives the flood and applies any config changes. > I am just guessing, but > the DNS-SD service announcements are typically meant to be used to allow > selecting a server and then connecting to it. But the general flooding of > information is not limited to announcing servers. It could simply be > about flooding of e.g.: intent which has to be just locally followed > ("network wider parameters"). Just as a counter-example of what would > IMHO NOT fit into the grasp-dnssd case... Yes, absolutely. So we could generalise this as "flood any JSON we want to all autonomic nodes". Regards Brian > > Cheers > Toerless > > On Sat, Mar 05, 2022 at 02:03:37PM +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I can reply fairly quickly, since I studied these two drafts before, >> and prototyped the draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd mechanism. >> I haven't exercised that code recently, but it can be found at: >> https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GetDNSSD2.py >> https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/AskDNSSD2.py >> >> So, the mechanism for mapping DNSSD info to a GRASP objective works. >> >> The question that came to me was whether the proposed family of >> SRV. objectives was too general or not general enough. >> >> Too general, because it claims to be applicable to, well, anything. >> >> Not general enough, because for draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-config, >> it didn't make much sense to define that as SRV.GraspConfig. However, >> I found the CBOR map approach to defining an extensible objective very >> useful. Hence, the code at: >> https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GRASPconfig.py >> does *not* use the exact draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd mapping, >> but is directly based on it. >> >> All the same, I think this approach to integrating GRASP-based service >> management with DNSSD and with legacy NOC services is very interesting >> and seems to be something ANIMA should consider carefully. >> >> Could the authors deal with the various TBDs in both documents? >> >> Regards >> Brian Carpenter >> >> On 05-Mar-22 07:15, Toerless Eckert wrote: >>> Dear ANIMA WG members, >>> >>> I have refreshed the two drafts to complete a solution for a real standalone ACP: >>> >>> a) use DNS-SD service compatible service discovery in ANIMA/ACP via GRASP: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd/ >>> b) Use service discovery for ANIMA/ACP to autoconfigure its own core services >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig/ >>> >>> Could I ask you to review and comment these two drafts ? >>> >>> If the responses are not too averse, I will request a call for adoption. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Toerless >>> >>> Btw: I am happy to swap mutual review cycles, so if you are waiting for more reviews >>> of your very own draft for ANIMA, i'll be happy to reciprocate ;-)) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Anima mailing list >>> Anima@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >>> > From nobody Mon Mar 7 14:21:50 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FBD3A0D1F; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:21:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164669170301.9071.6233639082825237833@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 14:21:43 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 22:21:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : BRSKI-AE: Alternative Enrollment Protocols in BRSKI Authors : David von Oheimb Steffen Fries Hendrik Brockhaus Eliot Lear Filename : draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2022-03-07 Abstract: This document enhances Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructure (BRSKI, [RFC8995]) to allow employing alternative enrollment protocols, such as CMP. Using self-contained signed objects, the origin of enrollment requests and responses can be authenticated independently of message transfer. This supports end-to-end security and asynchronous operation of certificate enrollment and provides flexibility where to authenticate and authorize certification requests. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Wed Mar 9 06:14:49 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030AC3A11CC; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 06:14:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.904 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G2n2HSkyXdZW; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 06:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from gecko.sbs.de (gecko.sbs.de [194.138.37.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 234793A12A7; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 06:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.sbs.de (mail2.sbs.de [192.129.41.66]) by gecko.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 229EEABV028725 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 Mar 2022 15:14:12 +0100 Received: from [139.22.40.113] ([139.22.40.113]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 229EE8wg020852 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Mar 2022 15:14:09 +0100 Message-ID: <391dd098bf6c11bd456a99ca5ebaa57dd69df89b.camel@siemens.com> From: David von Oheimb To: anima@ietf.org Cc: Hendrik Brockhaus , "Fries, Steffen (T CST)" , Eliot Lear , Michael Richardson , anima-chairs@ietf.org Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:14:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <164669170301.9071.6233639082825237833@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <164669170301.9071.6233639082825237833@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-FbbYUcKhPL2MxlMhkk0k" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.3-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Request for feedback on new version including title and repo name - Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 14:14:48 -0000 --=-FbbYUcKhPL2MxlMhkk0k Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In preparation of IETF 113, where I'm going to provide a brief status update on the draft, I uploaded on Monday draft version 05 of BRSKI-AE, with the following changes since version 04: * David von Oheimb became the editor. * Streamline wording, consolidate terminology, improve grammar, etc. * Shift the emphasis towards supporting alternative enrollment protocols. * Update the title accordingly - preliminary change to be approved. * Move comments on EST and detailed application examples to informative annex. * Move the remaining text of section 3 as two new sub-sections of section 1. Are there any objections to updating the title to:    BRSKI-AE: Alternative Enrollment Protocols in BRSKI which reflects much better the new focus of the document? Moreover,  I suggest renaming the repository etc. to, e.g.,    https://github.com/anima-wg/anima-brski-ae Unfortunately we have not heard back from Eliot regarding the subsection on EST use. So all we could do there was to try to maintain it in line with the rest of the document, while more work would be needed to clarify open points and fill in some more detail. We recently found that also the subsection on CMP use needs some further detail, as indicated by the ToDo there. We are going to provide it with the next version. To sum up, the only open issues that we see are in section    5. Examples for signature-wrapping using existing enrollment protocols Feedback on the revised BRSKI-AE text (i.e., all of the document) is most welcome,  ideally already before the conference such that we may address issues there. David On Mon, 2022-03-07 at 14:21 -0800, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model > and Approach WG of the IETF. > >         Title           : BRSKI-AE: Alternative Enrollment Protocols > in BRSKI >         Authors         : David von Oheimb >                           Steffen Fries >                           Hendrik Brockhaus >                           Eliot Lear >         Filename        : draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05.txt >         Pages           : 30 >         Date            : 2022-03-07 > > Abstract: >    This document enhances Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key > Infrastructure >    (BRSKI, [RFC8995]) to allow employing alternative enrollment >    protocols, such as CMP. > >    Using self-contained signed objects, the origin of enrollment >    requests and responses can be authenticated independently of > message >    transfer.  This supports end-to-end security and asynchronous >    operation of certificate enrollment and provides flexibility where > to >    authenticate and authorize certification requests. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll/ > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at > rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts --=-FbbYUcKhPL2MxlMhkk0k Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In preparation of IETF 113, where I'm going t= o provide a brief status update on the draft,
I uploaded on Monday = draft version 05 of BRSKI-AE, with the following changes = since version 04:

* David von Oheimb became the editor.
* Streamline wording, consolidate terminology, improve grammar, et=
c.
* Shift the emphasis towards supporting alternative enrollment=
 protocols.
* Update the title accordingly - preliminary change t=
o be approved.
* Move comments on EST and detailed application ex=
amples to informative annex.
* Move the remaining text of section=
 3 as two new sub-sections of section 1.

Are there any objections to updating the title to:

   BRSKI-AE: Alternative Enrollment Protocols in = BRSKI

which reflects much better the new focus of = the document?

Moreover,  I suggest renaming the reposito= ry etc. to, e.g.,


Unfortunately we have not heard back from = Eliot regarding the subsection on EST use.
So all we could do there was = to try to maintain it in line with the rest of the document,
while more = work would be needed to clarify open points and fill in some more detail.

We recently found that also the subsection on CMP u= se needs some further detail,
as indicated by the ToDo there. We a= re going to provide it with the next version.

To sum up, = the only open issues that we see are in section

   5. Exa= mples for signature-wrapping using existing enrollment protocols
=
Feedback on the revised BRSKI-AE text (i.e., all of the docu= ment) is most welcome, 
ideally already before the conference such = that we may address issues there.

David

=

On Mon, 2022-03-07 at 14:21 -0800, internet-drafts@ietf= .org wrote:

A New Inter= net-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Mo= del and Approach WG of the IETF.

  &= nbsp;     Title      &nbs= p;    : BRSKI-AE: Alternative Enrollment Protocols in BRSKI<= br>
        Authors  = ;       : David von Oheimb
&nbs= p;            &= nbsp;            Ste= ffen Fries
        &n= bsp;            = ;     Hendrik Brockhaus
   = ;            &n= bsp;          Eliot Lear
        Filename &nbs= p;      : draft-ietf-anima-brski-async-enroll-05.t= xt
        Pages = ;          : 30
=         Date    = ;        : 2022-03-07

=
Abstract:
   This document enhances Boot= strapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructure
   (BRSK= I, [RFC8995]) to allow employing alternative enrollment
 = ;  protocols, such as CMP.

   U= sing self-contained signed objects, the origin of enrollment
=    requests and responses can be authenticated independently of m= essage
   transfer.  This supports end-to-end = security and asynchronous
   operation of certifica= te enrollment and provides flexibility where to
   = authenticate and authorize certification requests.

=

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
=

There is also an htmlized ver= sion available at:

A diff from the previous version is available at:


Internet-Drafts are= also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
--=-FbbYUcKhPL2MxlMhkk0k-- From nobody Wed Mar 9 16:35:07 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0CE3A13C6 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:35:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jlq_NA2xcSqj for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52d.google.com (mail-pg1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D02E93A13C4 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id t187so3370774pgb.1 for ; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 16:35:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5yTCmK7hEJLrTPU/s9e56Io4KWN4opzgCPHDlYtqxfI=; b=bWHH/osXWm6GK5vqJZACkdAh/hKpsxjA/wJu9zuBQXwlPUeVD2MSBBgNu7isus6bFy iufh7QcYALE14Tpvl5tnPDpZ9e6JfM8DrOyj2x+fQ44+9x2d/Nby31INB479U91gBCnA rMPpoZFK7aPYWWdWVPvXNmbTEtRLqWOv0vCl6KZM6L339/tjGkuzvCRx5yq9ut3acw5J 2AHUyOlJfv8dvAjPudEkbbLKIb08LhGFFlCAZmacFYQrHCokwfTsiBhLdZKY9u+vzsAM dMNFzrGjZ+yq7PqtSCb11cohC9Imm7z/Apsnb6UsDp28z/+jSwCKjjNVThLPFR4pMnF6 16wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5yTCmK7hEJLrTPU/s9e56Io4KWN4opzgCPHDlYtqxfI=; b=ojSc51gEkQLQVuim/WYh7Oz9n4X5LKzVehd1hVL8T9Nx2/05ZgaRPvRvvZfH6+reyi Ql3mIVsdNbMK7Ttu13KwORLV8Nc2SCqEXXMRSWgWZKU5y+axdWT7zWF38j7Cto+OmXlf /GSa0kB9U0ClRo5zpvv6KP7UygGaK31ZT8JV2M6i21rrAwHTcFBWDhcfQLeEFD4/n6IB tFdKHaBiXXtwRyu9wSIT0kBvGBbr0JBCGwUqVbP+Rv6/xU6ZswKtQXBcBus6PcU4Thol QIXNm/qpQLSiBlO9OCAMXs3SFQ20ncpf/TeDCjowTDayNnHfEOoOBs7betoUdwiT22TT 6JJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533kJI1azubxdv+6DEJzw8IXQxxcx8TSNz95STPk3bJ0SoFOPeh6 j7+tcrL5qm5oU1OAoT1TqN+60U2VqdfpSA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzGTzwKaKFBje+TyzljPaJ24/bhXX6IgHSPUCI/G6kLryVAQQFBS95yQxfGKiRkD/tJ5pkoZQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2481:b0:4f6:b71f:3330 with SMTP id c1-20020a056a00248100b004f6b71f3330mr2033927pfv.47.1646872502972; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 16:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j2-20020a655582000000b00372b2b5467asm3547760pgs.10.2022.03.09.16.35.01 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Mar 2022 16:35:02 -0800 (PST) To: anima@ietf.org References: <164636378996.28442.13652235231467425779@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 13:34:58 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <164636378996.28442.13652235231467425779@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:35:06 -0000 Hi, I have a few questions about this draft. 1) Format of objective-value: objective-value = n-s-deployment-value ; An n-s-deployment-value is defined as Figure-1. n-s-deployment-value + service-information + source-ip-address + destination-ip-address + service-tag + resource-information + resource-requirement-pair + resource-type + resource-value I don't understand this notation. What is it, and how is it serialised as CBOR? For example, is it supposed to be a JSON-like map of some kind (as proposed in draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd or draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-config)? We really need complete CDDL, which can be checked automatically. 2) The proposal does not contain much detail yet. "Resource requirements of different types can be described in an objective option. The ResourceManager objective option supports multi-faceted resource requirements and negotiation." That implies a large amount of extension. How will extensibility of "resourcetype" values be handled? An IANA registry? What about "resvals" that are not a simple number? Again, a JSON-like model might be appropriate, to allow easy extensions. Would some extensions be general, and others vendor- specific? 3) Will this proposal integrate with DetNet? (I have no knowledge of how DetNet will be configured, but I expect that will involve Yang and NetConf.) 4) More generally, I think this proposal needs to explain how it will interact with NetConf, because today operators use NetConf. Regards Brian Carpenter On 04-Mar-22 16:16, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. > > Title : An Autonomic Mechanism for Resource-based Network Services Auto-deployment > Authors : Joanna Dang > Sheng Jiang > Zongpeng Du > Yujing > Filename : draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2022-03-03 > > Abstract: > This document specifies an autonomic mechanism for resource-based > network services deployment through the Autonomic Control Plane (ACP) > in a network. This mechanism uses the GeneRic Autonomic Signaling > Protocol (GRASP) in [RFC8990] to exchange the information among the > autonomic nodes so that the resource along the service path can be > coordinated. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment/ > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-network-service-auto-deployment-01 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts > > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > From nobody Wed Mar 9 17:19:45 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F012B3A1013 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 05:40:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.128 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.128 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WguqAcdbJjbR for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 05:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB5A63A101C for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 05:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCC7B549A2C; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:40:04 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id D3B104EA855; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:40:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:40:04 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Toerless Eckert , anima@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <72d1ae7b-a707-ab20-806f-e4967ca250a1@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <72d1ae7b-a707-ab20-806f-e4967ca250a1@gmail.com> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 17:19:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [Anima] ANIMA: pls comment: draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig-01 / draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd-03 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:40:15 -0000 Thanks, Brian I hope i captured your concerns correctly in github: https://github.com/anima-wg/grasp-dns/issues/3 For draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-config i am a bit at a loss when & why one would apply the encodings defined there. Is this meant to be ?mandatory? objective parameters whenever you flood ? In which case i would have to see that i make grasp-dnssd include these parameters because it is meant to flood ?? Could you maybe give an example ? I am just guessing, but the DNS-SD service announcements are typically meant to be used to allow selecting a server and then connecting to it. But the general flooding of information is not limited to announcing servers. It could simply be about flooding of e.g.: intent which has to be just locally followed ("network wider parameters"). Just as a counter-example of what would IMHO NOT fit into the grasp-dnssd case... Cheers Toerless On Sat, Mar 05, 2022 at 02:03:37PM +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Hi, > > I can reply fairly quickly, since I studied these two drafts before, > and prototyped the draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd mechanism. > I haven't exercised that code recently, but it can be found at: > https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GetDNSSD2.py > https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/AskDNSSD2.py > > So, the mechanism for mapping DNSSD info to a GRASP objective works. > > The question that came to me was whether the proposed family of > SRV. objectives was too general or not general enough. > > Too general, because it claims to be applicable to, well, anything. > > Not general enough, because for draft-carpenter-anima-grasp-config, > it didn't make much sense to define that as SRV.GraspConfig. However, > I found the CBOR map approach to defining an extensible objective very > useful. Hence, the code at: > https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/GRASPconfig.py > does *not* use the exact draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd mapping, > but is directly based on it. > > All the same, I think this approach to integrating GRASP-based service > management with DNSSD and with legacy NOC services is very interesting > and seems to be something ANIMA should consider carefully. > > Could the authors deal with the various TBDs in both documents? > > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > On 05-Mar-22 07:15, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > Dear ANIMA WG members, > > > > I have refreshed the two drafts to complete a solution for a real standalone ACP: > > > > a) use DNS-SD service compatible service discovery in ANIMA/ACP via GRASP: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-grasp-dnssd/ > > b) Use service discovery for ANIMA/ACP to autoconfigure its own core services > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-services-dns-autoconfig/ > > > > Could I ask you to review and comment these two drafts ? > > > > If the responses are not too averse, I will request a call for adoption. > > > > Thanks > > Toerless > > > > Btw: I am happy to swap mutual review cycles, so if you are waiting for more reviews > > of your very own draft for ANIMA, i'll be happy to reciprocate ;-)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Anima mailing list > > Anima@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima > > -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Mar 10 00:54:03 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51B03A0A04; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:53:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GMqX5luVK1J; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0819A3A07A3; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2020658C4AF; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:53:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id E2DE04EA898; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:52:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:52:59 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Dirk Trossen Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "routing-discussion@ietf.org" , anima@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <164485138286.22125.17451234678560157962@ietfa.amsl.com> <239d4d5d00914c7aa8bf357bde929dd2@huawei.com> <8e6cb876102e494187a1821a2cb79c7b@huawei.com> <132001d833dc$15d8a190$4189e4b0$@olddog.co.uk> <1257684f830740fdb8dae5939b1de12e@huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <1257684f830740fdb8dae5939b1de12e@huawei.com> Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] recursive system dependencies (Was: Re: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 08:53:13 -0000 [adding anima] One should not be surprised to see a lot of outages to be related to loss of connectivity and/or control due to non-understood circular dependen= cies. This is certainly true for several of the big outages reported, such as some complex mutual automation control failure in Google a few years back, and then the typical "routing broke, and we couldn't remotely access the node we needed to fix... because routing broke". That issue of course is resolveable by ACP/RFC8994 and lists a documented example of that issue as investigated by FCC because the network was running 911 services and was thus subject to regulation. When big OTT networks have outages, you will of course almost never see a good root cause analysis publically becau= se there is no regulation that forces them to. Maybe a bit like how the banking sector i think also has managed to keep a lot of its security issues under = wraps. We do also have in ANIMA participants interested in having those dependency chains modelled, which would allow to discover loops that could result in b= lockage, and to manage service instantiation in the order necessary to resolve depen= dencies when they are resolvable. However: I always look with marvel and dismay at those dependency resolution systems found in linux distributions to (compile and) install packages. And that so= unds so simple that one should expect that it should not result in dependency re= solution failures when there are no actual circular ones, but in practice those issu= es occur repeatedly, and one has to take really unnecessary brute-force resolution measures even though in detailled analysis one could see a limited dependen= cy resolution chain, which the platform package management system just couldn'= t figure out. Admittedly, this is more of a problem with more flexible systems such = as gentoo where you can have multiple versions of packages and also differently parameterized packages(through parameterized compilation). But those are ex= actly the minimum complexity requirements i would expect in an actual network ser= vices (ever seen a netork service without per-deployment parameters ?). So i fear that the more we're automating networks with SDN, the more we wil= l run in the buildup of system dependencies that can only be resolved automatical= ly with "please reboot the continent wide network... now!". Or else we could go back building simpler networks. Maybe bottom up like we used to do instead of orchestrating a random complexity zoo like we do like= to do now in the times of automation... Cheers Toerless On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 06:49:07AM +0000, Dirk Trossen wrote: > Have you seen anything like this and what do you think are the consequenc= es? > [DOT] What the consequences of this may be is difficult to judge IMO. May= be an SDN-like situation, i.e., still having an IP-based control overlay wh= ich then manages the remaining IP service plane? Another possible direction= to look into is using ANIMA concepts to bootstrap (and maintain) a DLT-lik= e control overlay. But this is also why we are asking the community for pos= sible network innovations that may help improve on the efficacy of DLTs. On= e approach we looked into, as an example but this still needs more work, is= 'L3-based service routing' as a form of semantic routing (hence the hint t= o the semantic routing discussions in the draft). Here, we interpret the DL= T as a service provided across the network. I could see this being provided= as a baseline/bootstrap service through which to manage the (service routi= ng) data that is being enriched over time by other services. But again, we = were hoping to find more folks in the community who have thought deeper alo= ng those lines; we are ju > st at the start of doing so. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: rtgwg On Behalf Of Dirk Trossen > Sent: 02 March 2022 13:16 > To: Dirk Trossen ; rtgwg@ietf= =2Eorg; routing-discussion@ietf.org > Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-d= lts-00.txt >=20 > All, >=20 > We have posted an updated to the draft below at https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts/.=20 >=20 > We now welcome Mike McBride and Xinxin Fan as additional co-authors and h= ave also added language into the introduction to clarify our initial insigh= ts being limited to PoW -based DLT systems, which lead to some characterist= ic communication patterns and associated inefficiencies compared to, say, P= oS-based systems.=20 >=20 > Please provide any comments you may have on the draft and/or its insights= , including any interests in contributing in its expansion (e.g., to other = DLT systems). >=20 > Best, >=20 > Dirk >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: routing-discussion [mailto:routing-discussion-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Dirk Trossen > Sent: 14 February 2022 16:16 > To: rtgwg@ietf.org; routing-discussion@ietf.org > Subject: FW: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-d= lts-00.txt >=20 > All, >=20 > We posted the draft below to continue a piece of work initiated in the In= dustry IoT Consortium (IIC) on understanding the "Impact of DLTs on provide= r networks", leading to the whitepaper at https://www.iiconsortium.org/pdf/= 2022-01-10-Impact-of-Distributed-Ledgers-on > -Provider-Networks.pdf >=20 > With this draft, we solicit feedback from the wider IETF community on our= insights regarding DLTs with the desire to broaden our findings with the e= xpertise we can find here but also to capture possible network and routing = innovations that may improve on the impacts we have identified. >=20 > If you have any comments or would like to contribute to this work, please= do let us know, either on the list or directly to the authors. >=20 > Best, >=20 > Dirk (on behalf of the authors) >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: 14 February 2022 16:10 > To: David Guzman ; Dirk Trossen > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Dirk Trossen and posted to the IETF > repository. >=20 > Name: draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts > Revision: 00 > Title: Impact of DLTs on Provider Networks > Document date: 2022-02-14 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts/ > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document discusses the impact of distributed ledger technologies > being realized over IP-based provider networks. The focus here lies > on the impact that the DLT communication patterns have on efficiency > of resource usage in the underlying networks. We provide initial > insights into experimental results to quantify this impact in terms > of inefficient and wasted communication, aligned along challenges > that the DLT realization over IP networks faces. >=20 > This document is intended to outline this impact but also > opportunities for network innovations to improve on the identified > impact as well as the overall service quality. While this document > does not promote specific solutions that capture those opportunities, > it invites the wider community working on DLT and network solutions > alike to contribute to the insights in this document to aid future > research and development into possible solution concepts and > technologies. >=20 > The findings presented here have first been reported within the > similarly titled whitepaper released by the Industry IoT Consortium > [IIC_whitepaper]. >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg --=20 --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Mar 10 11:41:07 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196903A1B8E; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O1jAW0a0HU4a; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com (mail-pj1-x1034.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 951103A0881; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id cx5so6198273pjb.1; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6IqkQSI28f8Qrav/NAfcshQR2Gn4I3ne1ik2fL0bc7s=; b=V6XwrBvIdj9OtV5YWkpTPHWRpPJckPoc8INDYkR8TfuLjpt8O79KLJJ5fZSlzRWfXJ pwhrwdecTB3PmhMzC/ycSiEU589at6ASRhCwWdkZJmaUr+bqYuDOsBjBzN+zDtLlXAtp 6O0RWS/ZcXCJM4ICzX1wgmq1wR64b7OVkp7OsIqmyhCEyhG0A0a1IwH3MSFuFRpLsU1E aUlZ+MDlqSmC9/Uy7Jvcxjno+FKl6jXCjdV/znEnbyAJaq++LtocSIFsNtkcC64Rt/QG 0WXDQd49laGYB4clAmFoGAoqPI40Qvcf1Wg/PafIAJvWYm8vghzggTPtb0nKuJyzJidi Mkmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6IqkQSI28f8Qrav/NAfcshQR2Gn4I3ne1ik2fL0bc7s=; b=FcvyStiatv2eP7R+j5P8IYF0dpClHpCrHPqB+gLTbeifyJIAIwPoeMc2xowZa7NMwu 11VN23ZZXdNbZ6mpk3yoBwHhaewGxdkHU+pjaVgnbw9KRCPihFSsdzj1sg7Wl1yxjbPP 5rtF1jpTcNLKXw1QYYMa+8cBDKQQIYfoC3zDkCMR8Qn5tSHKEheMxPYHxwec8cUqa23U xhrSVrZH5KA6A/KgGaeLquRzOu5kcCG6ZqSX1NRk6Xa36Aqd9LuRSuuexYhCVtyN6JnW oAkhGlDq3scKfmCbyt2AG2q64Rgw1PPsOWC+DHxkTHDmtmQxmVNyX0Dbtm6q2l/RPPUs 6ATA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532G+N/yazHTHWtFWx/GKwipwS14d8G4NFcj6RUc6WBlyByDsfpw Wq766zbVZhbZdFjaJUbH4xSrosNe9AT5iQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwR1KhdI3MdFVoIiy0WY1dugSuFfONyfKOJUonLJU2BCXubvanyOm88KARinS21iUzWaXNlHA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1c8a:b0:1c3:22be:fe31 with SMTP id oo10-20020a17090b1c8a00b001c322befe31mr1060685pjb.195.1646941246208; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k21-20020aa788d5000000b004f71bff2893sm7594135pff.67.2022.03.10.11.40.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:45 -0800 (PST) To: Toerless Eckert , Dirk Trossen Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , anima@ietf.org, "routing-discussion@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" References: <164485138286.22125.17451234678560157962@ietfa.amsl.com> <239d4d5d00914c7aa8bf357bde929dd2@huawei.com> <8e6cb876102e494187a1821a2cb79c7b@huawei.com> <132001d833dc$15d8a190$4189e4b0$@olddog.co.uk> <1257684f830740fdb8dae5939b1de12e@huawei.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <10fb5cc3-cb2e-afcd-afd3-5a0367cf5e61@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:40:39 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] recursive system dependencies (Was: Re: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 19:40:53 -0000 T24gMTAtTWFyLTIyIDIxOjUyLCBUb2VybGVzcyBFY2tlcnQgd3JvdGU6DQo+IFthZGRpbmcg YW5pbWFdDQo+IA0KPiBPbmUgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBzdXJwcmlzZWQgdG8gc2VlIGEgbG90 IG9mIG91dGFnZXMgdG8gYmUgcmVsYXRlZCB0bw0KPiBsb3NzIG9mIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eSBh bmQvb3IgY29udHJvbCBkdWUgdG8gbm9uLXVuZGVyc3Rvb2QgY2lyY3VsYXIgZGVwZW5kZW5j aWVzLg0KDQpUaGlzIHByb2JsZW0gaXMgYXMgb2xkIGFzIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIGNvbXB1dGlu Zy4gSSByZW1lbWJlciB0aGUgZGlmZmljdWx0eQ0Kb2YgcmVzdGFydGluZyB0aGUgQ0VSTiBj b21wdXRlciBjZW50cmUgYWZ0ZXIgYSBwb3dlciBvdXRhZ2UgYmFjayBpbiB0aGUNCjE5ODBz LCB3aGVuIG5vYm9keSBrbmV3IHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0IHJlc3RhcnQgc2VxdWVuY2UgYW5kIHRo 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Toerless Eckert , Dirk Trossen , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "routing-discussion@ietf.org" , anima@ietf.org, "rtgwg@ietf.org" , Jon Crowcroft In-reply-to: <10fb5cc3-cb2e-afcd-afd3-5a0367cf5e61@gmail.com> References: <164485138286.22125.17451234678560157962@ietfa.amsl.com> <239d4d5d00914c7aa8bf357bde929dd2@huawei.com> <8e6cb876102e494187a1821a2cb79c7b@huawei.com> <132001d833dc$15d8a190$4189e4b0$@olddog.co.uk> <1257684f830740fdb8dae5939b1de12e@huawei.com> <10fb5cc3-cb2e-afcd-afd3-5a0367cf5e61@gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to Brian E Carpenter message dated "Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:40:39 +1300." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <361080.1646984141.1@svr-ssh-0.cl.cam.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 07:35:41 +0000 Message-Id: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] recursive system dependencies (Was: Re: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 07:35:53 -0000 the cambridge distributed system was an integrated programmable architectu= re where routers (called ring-ring bridges), nameservers, bootservers, fileservers, were al= l treated in a coherent sand consistent fashion - no-one thought there was anything odd a= bout this - we even had an internet protocol (the universe data gram protocol) which allowed i= nterworking with non cambridge networks (indeed, we connected several universities in the UK wi= th satellite and later land lines)... ref Needham, Roger Michael; Herbert, Andrew J. (1983). The Cambridge Distribut= ed Computing System. Addison Wesley. also coverd in = https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/6041.6074 i have to admit that one upgrade in the mid 80s, one of my colleagues forg= ot about dependencies, and managed to require the nameserver to allow the bootserve= r to boot - this was tricky after power outages given the nameserver booted from the bootserver= (s) - luckily, we could rollback a version, reboot everything, fix the bug, and roll forward= again (this wasn't as idiotic as it might seem, since the nameserver was also an= integral part of how some (stateful) routing was done...so booting from a bootserver on a r= emote ring required a path.....hmmmmi think i wrote a paper about this back then...) i can't get to exciting by people thinking routers (and switches and NICs,= and AI accelerators) aren't just yet more computers.... however, there are specialisations (and aforementioned dependencies) which= may require extreme optimisations, which render some devices rather inappropriate for some kin= ds of computations... like running a renderfarm on a bunch of P4 programmable boxes might be a b= it daft... > On 10-Mar-22 21:52, Toerless Eckert wrote: > = > [adding anima] > = > One should not be surprised to see a lot of outages to be related to > loss of connectivity and/or control due to non-understood circular = > dependencies. > = > = > This problem is as old as distributed computing. I remember the difficul= ty > of restarting the CERN computer centre after a power outage back in the > 1980s, when nobody knew the correct restart sequence and the dependencie= s > turned out to be different each time. While having great hope for > autonomic networking, I don't think we have a magic solution for this. > See draft-ciavaglia-anima-coordination from 2016, and add in the case of= a > general outage. Probably ANIMA needs to restart work on that topic. > = > Brian > = > = > This is certainly true for several of the big outages reported, such= = > as > some complex mutual automation control failure in Google a few years= = > back, > and then the typical "routing broke, and we couldn't remotely access= = > the > node we needed to fix... because routing broke". That issue of cours= e > is resolveable by ACP/RFC8994 and lists a documented example of that= = > issue > as investigated by FCC because the network was running 911 services = > and > was thus subject to regulation. When big OTT networks have outages, = > you > will of course almost never see a good root cause analysis publicall= y = > because > there is no regulation that forces them to. Maybe a bit like how the= = > banking > sector i think also has managed to keep a lot of its security issues= = > under wraps. > = > We do also have in ANIMA participants interested in having those = > dependency > chains modelled, which would allow to discover loops that could = > result in blockage, > and to manage service instantiation in the order necessary to resolv= e = > dependencies > when they are resolvable. However: > = > I always look with marvel and dismay at those dependency resolution = > systems > found in linux distributions to (compile and) install packages. And = > that sounds > so simple that one should expect that it should not result in = > dependency resolution > failures when there are no actual circular ones, but in practice = > those issues occur > repeatedly, and one has to take really unnecessary brute-force = > resolution > measures even though in detailled analysis one could see a limited = > dependency > resolution chain, which the platform package management system just = > couldn't figure > out. Admittedly, this is more of a problem with more flexible system= s = > such as > gentoo where you can have multiple versions of packages and also = > differently > parameterized packages(through parameterized compilation). But those= = > are exactly > the minimum complexity requirements i would expect in an actual = > network services > (ever seen a netork service without per-deployment parameters ?). > So i fear that the more we're automating networks with SDN, the more= = > we will run > in the buildup of system dependencies that can only be resolved = > automatically with > "please reboot the continent wide network... now!". > = > Or else we could go back building simpler networks. Maybe bottom up = > like we > used to do instead of orchestrating a random complexity zoo like we = > do like to do > now in the times of automation... > = > Cheers > Toerless > = > On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 06:49:07AM +0000, Dirk Trossen wrote: > = > Have you seen anything like this and what do you think are the = > consequences? > [DOT] What the consequences of this may be is difficult to judge= = > IMO. Maybe an SDN-like situation, i.e., still having an IP-based control= = > overlay which then manages the remaining IP service plane? Another = > possible direction to look into is using ANIMA concepts to bootstrap (an= d = > maintain) a DLT-like control overlay. But this is also why we are asking= = > the community for possible network innovations that may help improve on = > the efficacy of DLTs. One approach we looked into, as an example but thi= s = > still needs more work, is 'L3-based service routing' as a form of = > semantic routing (hence the hint to the semantic routing discussions in = > the draft). Here, we interpret the DLT as a service provided across the = > network. I could see this being provided as a baseline/bootstrap service= = > through which to manage the (service routing) data that is being enriche= d = > over time by other services. But again, we were hoping to find more folk= s = > in the community who have thought deeper along those lines; we are > = > ju > = > st at the start of doing so. > = > Thanks, > Adrian > = > -----Original Message----- > From: rtgwg On Behalf Of Dirk Trossen > Sent: 02 March 2022 13:16 > To: Dirk Trossen ; = > rtgwg@ietf.org; routing-discussion@ietf.org > Subject: RE: New Version Notification for = > draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt > = > All, > = > We have posted an updated to the draft below at = > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts/. > = > We now welcome Mike McBride and Xinxin Fan as additional = > co-authors and have also added language into the introduction to clarify= = > our initial insights being limited to PoW -based DLT systems, which lead= = > to some characteristic communication patterns and associated = > inefficiencies compared to, say, PoS-based systems. > = > Please provide any comments you may have on the draft and/or its= = > insights, including any interests in contributing in its expansion (e.g.= , = > to other DLT systems). > = > Best, > = > Dirk > = > -----Original Message----- > From: routing-discussion = > [mailto:routing-discussion-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dirk Trossen > Sent: 14 February 2022 16:16 > To: rtgwg@ietf.org; routing-discussion@ietf.org > Subject: FW: New Version Notification for = > draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt > = > All, > = > We posted the draft below to continue a piece of work initiated = > in the Industry IoT Consortium (IIC) on understanding the "Impact of DLT= s = > on provider networks", leading to the whitepaper at = > https://www.iiconsortium.org/pdf/2022-01-10-Impact-of-Distributed-Ledger= s-on > -Provider-Networks.pdf > = > With this draft, we solicit feedback from the wider IETF = > community on our insights regarding DLTs with the desire to broaden our = > findings with the expertise we can find here but also to capture possibl= e = > network and routing innovations that may improve on the impacts we have = > identified. > = > If you have any comments or would like to contribute to this = > work, please do let us know, either on the list or directly to the = > authors. > = > Best, > = > Dirk (on behalf of the authors) > = > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: 14 February 2022 16:10 > To: David Guzman ; Dirk Trossen = > > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt > = > = > A new version of I-D, draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Dirk Trossen and posted to th= e = > IETF > repository. > = > Name: draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts > Revision: 00 > Title: Impact of DLTs on Provider Networks > Document date: 2022-02-14 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: > = > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts-00.tx= t > Status: > = > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts/ > Htmlized: > = > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-trossen-rtgwg-impact-of-dlts > = > = > Abstract: > This document discusses the impact of distributed ledger = > technologies > being realized over IP-based provider networks. The focus = > here lies > on the impact that the DLT communication patterns have on = > efficiency > of resource usage in the underlying networks. We provide = > initial > insights into experimental results to quantify this impact i= n = > terms > of inefficient and wasted communication, aligned along = > challenges > that the DLT realization over IP networks faces. > = > This document is intended to outline this impact but also > opportunities for network innovations to improve on the = > identified > impact as well as the overall service quality. While this = > document > does not promote specific solutions that capture those = > opportunities, > it invites the wider community working on DLT and network = > solutions > alike to contribute to the insights in this document to aid = > future > research and development into possible solution concepts and > technologies. > = > The findings presented here have first been reported within = > the > similarly titled whitepaper released by the Industry IoT = > Consortium > [IIC_whitepaper]. > = > = > = > = > The IETF Secretariat > = > = > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion > = > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > = > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > = > = > = > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion > = From nobody Fri Mar 11 11:49:21 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E5E3A11FA for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:49:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TXCjmuPQMO2c for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0283D3A11F7 for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 952CA58C4AF for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 20:49:11 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 63F3E4EA8BB; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 20:49:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 20:49:11 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ANIMA: preliminary agenda ANIMA@IETF113 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 19:49:19 -0000 Please see https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-anima We are happily accepting notes takers! I added slots for all requests i received. If you did send a request but do not see a slot, please contact us cahirs. (also if you see any other bugs) Please upload/propose slides when you have written them. Please familiarize yourself with all the new hybrid IETF113 procedures. URL is at the top of te agenda. Thats about the best thing about being that late on friday: We'll all have worked out how that hybrid thing will work by then ;-) Cheers Toerless (for the chairs) From nobody Tue Mar 15 18:09:40 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F9C3A10A4 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:09:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mrS_miotZG0G for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com (mail-pf1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B8AB3A10DC for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id d19so1668439pfv.7 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:09:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dofiwamukoDjYkDCZL8lupFxNdyaFQoimLGWfASAuX8=; b=kCuassb84kEbU34v1P38Ofw/gkQ77SD0AJLuIObCTZ7Dtz0XqFZKjlNi6ICPhR1P1I +tA7XtdPM56TiWqYBNOkia1pkzvCq/OwBmYFM1tkZ0RBU+FRDcLZotixqITF6y5V/bQ4 cxSwnW8oCHjuiz5MeunThan94a6N2zBblK2XPgMxiaQ4B0LoQeLbpiUih9BgQpNOw+sb Gmo+uuWIeTr0ICDlWncdstIXumzwlOl0/YhojaGKv56P5jp5X4DYoDMAbFm5IqUPL09v bJaZB7QlwcfIbQ11ANLmtW1Wjc7ynDSDsvVX5L1wGTwRZnzejvHV9upcgTMt0NahXWi3 UI5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dofiwamukoDjYkDCZL8lupFxNdyaFQoimLGWfASAuX8=; b=z4LXKiOsCxZ+8tyruEq/LnT5hsvxfqNB+8gmo5Sbkg3d1OHcnzq6XTMe738FnT7dUl gM+uvwaUWwn2gExoy/zC3Wb9DuEYxPLFPwvzc3W5QLFpeXmoqaxn7dHMWGfvZk5DMX6E nKRndaz94bxh9GPiu3/CUY/CtYwCQPTrzDD+q28Gtd+F+b9Wo0dMPKnuROwjMzK24p5Z 8WYvjUzRXgSvvrbSD0caO1FFRa4EfqmvFHC1LsUKTwvXC3cQgsQnS7Ie4YGtLIgpQHQZ 8RSnz6UiuVjwhJOkdixIrGcm4ZNgX514FiqMumDYFjzfpP3mbqrf78rF/I8oiUTf0LIc XqLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533nFI0JJUXZWduX3WgpCsmbWWAwtAqXlI66TiXTMSNsyfczzgA0 XKUTjXP8CBjY5INc3eyEqQb0ACi0pU6KMg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy7TefWbqGcQ0PshWu5kSJjLDD08yqMtPlIxrlW8gtpkp4/F8WmzcW0tm/4xAQlT+aa/3hcqw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:889:b0:4e0:dcc3:5e06 with SMTP id q9-20020a056a00088900b004e0dcc35e06mr31354839pfj.29.1647392972278; Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:db7:d041:a2d:ce65? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:db7:d041:a2d:ce65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15-20020a63504f000000b0037425262293sm455304pgl.43.2022.03.15.18.09.30 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:09:31 -0700 (PDT) To: Anima WG From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:09:27 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Fixed on-the-wire bug in Python GRASP X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 01:09:39 -0000 FYI if you are using or studying my grasp.py code. I just pushed a new version to GitHub which fixes a serious issue with discovery responses using the Divert option (O_DIVERT). Previously the code did not conform to RFC8990 on the wire, and now it does, so this fix is essential and anyone using the code should replace all copies of grasp.py with today's version, "RFC8990-BC-20220316", at: https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/grasp.py The details of the bug are complicated enough to get their own document: https://github.com/becarpenter/graspy/blob/master/divertBug.md Thanks to Parsa Ghaderi (Concordia University) for reporting this problem. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4196.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 48c46bc3-04df-4ccb-b757-08da08edcb40 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Mar 2022 14:44:23.5227 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jgaXLk7Ps0W+JvA9BKFPov732/Id+z9T/BkTgZ7FI67m8GAfASZz5+254RnoV0+hrnx2u7pHo8dsnKYdHo7PQQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB3758 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.210.234, xfe-rtp-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] AD review for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-06 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 14:47:32 -0000 Hi, This is my AD review for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-06. Thanks for this document. I found it pleasant to read and only had minor c= omments. 1.=20 Abstract: This intermediary node is known as a "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a Join Proxy. Is a constrained Join Proxy and Join Proxy the same thing, or is one a subt= ype of the other? I.e., would it be clearer to say that an enrolled Pledge= can act as a constrained Join Proxy? 2. Sec 2. The term "installation IP_address" refers to the set of addresses which are routable over the whole installation network. =20 Is it referring to the set of addresses, or just one out of the set of addr= esses? 3. Sec 4. in an LLN mesh can be =20 LLN doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. 4. Sec 5.1, figure 2. IP_P:p_P =3D Link-local IP address and port of Pledge (DTLS Client) IP_R:5684 =3D Routable IP address and coaps port of Registrar IP_Ja:P_J =3D Link-local IP address and join-port of Join Proxy IP_Jb:p_Rb =3D Routable IP address and client port of Join Proxy Really just a nit, but I assume that this is a naming scheme here, but I di= dn't find it that intuitive, specifically for differentiating between a lin= k-local and routable IP address for the Join Proxy. E.g., I was wondering = if IP_Jl: and IP_Jr might be clearer., but I'll leave this entirely to the = authors discretion. 5. Sec 5.3. The Registrar replaces the 5th "content" element with the DTLS payload of the response message and leaves all other array elements unchanged. =20 Possibly you could be more explicit that the message is sent back? 6. Sec 5.3 When additions are added to the array in later versions of this protocol, any additional array elements (i.e., not specified by current document) MUST be ignored by a receiver if it doesn't know these elements. This approach allows evolution of the protocol while maintaining backwards-compatibility. A version number isn't needed; that number is defined by the length of the array. =20 So, presumably new elements can be added, but never removed again afterwar= ds? =20 =20 7. Sec 6. =20 | Ports | Join Proxy needs |Join Proxy and Registrar| | | discoverable join-port |need discoverable | | | | join-ports | +-------------+----------------------------+------------------------+ At the point that I read this, I didn't understand why discoverable ports a= re needed for both the Join Proxy and Registrar for the stateless mode. I = think that led me to the separate question as to whether it wouldn't make m= ore sense to have the section on Discovery before the comparison section. 8. Sec 7. =20 Three discovery cases are discussed: Join Proxy discovers Registrar, Pledge discovers Registrar, and Pledge discovers Join Proxy. Each discovery case considers three alternatives: CoAP discovery, GRASP discovery, and 6tisch discovery. When reading this, it wasn't entirely clear to me under what circumstances = the different discovery mechanisms would be used. Is it also possible that= for some networks multiple discovery mechanisms may be available, or would= it always be the case that only one would be deployed? Finally, given the way that the options fall out, I did wonder if the docum= ent might be more readable if the 2-dimensional array of options was descri= bed the other way. I.e., grouped primarily by whether CoAP or GRASP or 6ti= sch discovery is being used? 9. Sec 8. Another possibility is to use level 2 protection between Registrar and Join Proxy. =20 I don't understand what is meant by this. --- Minor spelling and grammar warnings from an automated tool. Spellings: aplication, neighbour, neighbouring, Obviously neighbour isn't a spelling mistake, but flagging in case the inte= nt is to be using American English :-) Grammar Warnings: Section: 7.1.2, draft text: Autonomic Network Join Proxies MUST support GRASP discovery of Registrar as= described in section 4.3 of [RFC8995] . Warning: Don't put a space before the full stop. Suggested change: "." Section: 7.2.1, draft text: The discovery of the coaps Registrar, using coap discovery, by the Pledge f= ollows sections 6.3 and 6.5.1 of [I-D.ietf-anima-constrained-voucher].. Warning: Two consecutive dots Suggested change: "." Section: 7.3.1, draft text: Port numbers are assumed to be the default numbers 5683 and 5684 for coap a= nd coaps respectively (sections 12.6 and 12.7 of [RFC7252] when not shown i= n the response.=20 Warning: Unpaired symbol: ')' seems to be missing Section: 8, draft text: All of the concerns in [RFC8995] section 4.1 apply.=20 Warning: Consider using all the. Suggested change: "All the" Regards, Rob From nobody Fri Mar 18 08:20:04 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BA03A0A7E; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:20:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pYqCpmJqti9W; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E53C3A0C3B; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089ad4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.173.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4KKnkH5h2FzDCfD; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 16:19:51 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 16:19:51 +0100 Cc: "draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy.all@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 669309591.418277-52afd60d526aad5f5828ac1871464fa9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <16423EF3-F560-4B24-9346-9B8C7211849E@tzi.org> References: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] AD review for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-06 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:20:03 -0000 On 2022-03-18, at 15:44, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > 3. Sec 4. > in an LLN mesh can be >=20 > LLN doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. It is =E2=80=9Cdefined=E2=80=9D in RFC 7102. (I would not use this term. It has the definitional sharpness of Labskaus.) The term =E2=80=9CLLN mesh=E2=80=9D is definitely not defined. The authors of RFCs 8505 8931 9030 9032 seem to like using it, anyway. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Mar 21 02:26:12 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27023A1C4D for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 02:26:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bbhmail.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YvdHatDYYLqL for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 02:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay4.hostedemail.com (relay4.hostedemail.com [64.99.140.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 958253A1BF2 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 02:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omf01.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay02.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19515231D6; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:24:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8C1206000E; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:24:51 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:24:51 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy.all@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org Reply-To: stokcons@bbhmail.nl Mail-Reply-To: stokcons@bbhmail.nl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl Organization: vanderstok consultancy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_85a146323c7b8db02d69817e36d13311" X-Stat-Signature: b6sigt7jog83j6rjckysikefdiazqoid X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout06 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8C1206000E X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX1+23mjqgiMQml9bnV2GuS9ZOcaFPAQo9Dc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bbhmail.nl; h=mime-version:date:from:to:cc:subject:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:message-id:content-type; s=key; bh=98UADnXkQAduc3IbmMy6ShsG6xdPGBSLOhblmx2BnlA=; b=X7429hwj5pB5QQfCdBAZeOv4Ok2V+cJaPVte3UZDdmH2gMj4UgA1KzJ8LJ05useEQxRI2sGpmX4AsV9Zf4KNN0Enudc2N8iXuwe5cPBOs3H1WRDGopfg3HFfyIMJejj7XlWeQIYyXEIolrV6zkiXrFtP1DsedFMoARVTDicyGvU= X-HE-Tag: 1647854691-532836 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] AD review for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-06 X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:26:09 -0000 --=_85a146323c7b8db02d69817e36d13311 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Rob, thanks for the review and the encouragements. Below my reactions on your points. When you agree with the proposed changes, and nobody else complains, I will submit the new I-D at the end of this week. Greetings, Peter Rob Wilton (rwilton) schreef op 2022-03-18 15:44: > Hi, > > This is my AD review for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-06. > > Thanks for this document. I found it pleasant to read and only had > minor comments. > > 1. > Abstract: > > This intermediary node is known as a > "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a Join > Proxy. > > Is a constrained Join Proxy and Join Proxy the same thing, or is one a > subtype of the other? I.e., would it be clearer to say that an > enrolled Pledge can act as a constrained Join Proxy? > > pvds => > Agree with your suggestion. Terminology reduction is always good. > ==> > > 2. Sec 2. > The term > "installation IP_address" refers to the set of addresses which are > routable over the whole installation network. > > Is it referring to the set of addresses, or just one out of the set of > addresses? > > NEW ==> > The term "installation IP_address" refers to an address out of the set > of addresses which are routable over the whole installation network. > ==> > > 3. Sec 4. > in an LLN mesh can be > > LLN doesn't seem to be defined anywhere. > > NEW==> > the Pledge (P), in a Low-Power and Lossy Network (LLN) mesh > {{RFC7102}} can be more than one hop away from the Registrar (R) > ==> > > Ignoring Carsten's remark about being badly defined. > > 4. Sec 5.1, figure 2. > > IP_P:p_P = Link-local IP address and port of Pledge (DTLS Client) > IP_R:5684 = Routable IP address and coaps port of Registrar > IP_Ja:P_J = Link-local IP address and join-port of Join Proxy > IP_Jb:p_Rb = Routable IP address and client port of Join Proxy > > Really just a nit, but I assume that this is a naming scheme here, but > I didn't find it that intuitive, specifically for differentiating > between a link-local and routable IP address for the Join Proxy. E.g., > I was wondering if IP_Jl: and IP_Jr might be clearer., but I'll leave > this entirely to the authors discretion. > > pvds==> > Thanks, is clearer; changed as suggested in both figures > ==> > > 5. Sec 5.3. > > The > Registrar replaces the 5th "content" element with the DTLS payload of > the response message and leaves all other array elements unchanged. > > Possibly you could be more explicit that the message is sent back? > > NEW==> > After replacing the 5th "content" element with the DTLS payload of the > response message and leaving all other array elements unchanged, the > Registrar returns the response message. > ==> > > 6. Sec 5.3 > > When additions are added to the array in later versions of this > protocol, any additional array elements (i.e., not specified by > current document) MUST be ignored by a receiver if it doesn't know > these elements. This approach allows evolution of the protocol while > maintaining backwards-compatibility. A version number isn't needed; > that number is defined by the length of the array. > > So, presumably new elements can be added, but never removed again > afterwards? > > pvds==> > Yes, I addedd: > NEW==> > However, this means that message elements are consistently added to > earlier defined elements to avoid ambiguities. > ==> > ==> > > 7. Sec 6. > > | Ports | Join Proxy needs |Join Proxy and Registrar| > | | discoverable join-port |need discoverable | > | | | join-ports | > +-------------+----------------------------+------------------------+ > > At the point that I read this, I didn't understand why discoverable > ports are needed for both the Join Proxy and Registrar for the > stateless mode. I think that led me to the separate question as to > whether it wouldn't make more sense to have the section on Discovery > before the comparison section. > > pvds==> > I see your point and put discovery section before comparison section > ==> > > 8. Sec 7. > > Three discovery cases are discussed: Join Proxy discovers Registrar, > Pledge discovers Registrar, and Pledge discovers Join Proxy. Each > discovery case considers three alternatives: CoAP discovery, GRASP > discovery, and 6tisch discovery. > > When reading this, it wasn't entirely clear to me under what > circumstances the different discovery mechanisms would be used. Is it > also possible that for some networks multiple discovery mechanisms may > be available, or would it always be the case that only one would be > deployed? > > NEW==> > Three discovery cases are discussed: Join Proxy discovers Registrar, > Pledge discovers Registrar, and Pledge discovers Join Proxy. Each > discovery case considers three alternatives: CoAP discovery, GRASP > discovery, and 6tisch discovery. It depends on the type of installation > which discovery mechanisms are offered. It can be imagined that > manufacturers provide the pledge/join-proxy with more than one > discovery mechanism. The pledge/join-proxy can try one after the other > mechanism untill success is reached. Alternatively, at installation a > switch is set to determine the discovery mechanism. > ==> > > Finally, given the way that the options fall out, I did wonder if the > document might be more readable if the 2-dimensional array of options > was described the other way. I.e., grouped primarily by whether CoAP > or GRASP or 6tisch discovery is being used? > > pvds==> > This section has seen several structures, where this last structure > seemed to give the best results to generate readable text > ==> > > 9. Sec 8. > > Another possibility is to use level 2 protection between Registrar > and Join Proxy. > > I don't understand what is meant by this. > > NEW==> > In some installations, level 2 protection is provided between all > member pairs of the mesh. In such an enviroment encryption of the CBOR > array is unnecessay because the level 2 protection already provides it. > ==> > > --- > > Minor spelling and grammar warnings from an automated tool. > > Spellings: > aplication, > neighbour, > neighbouring, > > Obviously neighbour isn't a spelling mistake, but flagging in case the > intent is to be using American English :-) > > pvds==> > changed to american spelling convention > ==> > > Grammar Warnings: > Section: 7.1.2, draft text: > Autonomic Network Join Proxies MUST support GRASP discovery of > Registrar as described in section 4.3 of [RFC8995] . > Warning: Don't put a space before the full stop. > Suggested change: "." > > pvds==> > thanks, done > ==> > > Section: 7.2.1, draft text: > The discovery of the coaps Registrar, using coap discovery, by the > Pledge follows sections 6.3 and 6.5.1 of > [I-D.ietf-anima-constrained-voucher].. > Warning: Two consecutive dots > Suggested change: "." > > pvds==> > done > ==> > > Section: 7.3.1, draft text: > Port numbers are assumed to be the default numbers 5683 and 5684 for > coap and coaps respectively (sections 12.6 and 12.7 of [RFC7252] when > not shown in the response. > Warning: Unpaired symbol: ')' seems to be missing > > pvds==> > corrected > ==> > > Section: 8, draft text: > All of the concerns in [RFC8995] section 4.1 apply. > Warning: Consider using all the. > Suggested change: "All the" > pvds==> > also removed > ==> > > Regards, > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima --=_85a146323c7b8db02d69817e36d13311 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi Rob,

thanks for the review and the encouragements.
Belo= w my reactions on your points.

When you agree with the proposed = changes, and nobody else complains, I will submit the new I-D at the end of= this week.

Greetings,

Peter


Rob Wilton (rwilton) schreef op 2022-03-18 15:44:

Hi,

This is my AD review for draft-ietf-ani= ma-constrained-join-proxy-06.

Thanks for this document.  I = found it pleasant to read and only had minor comments.

1.
=    Abstract:

   This intermediary = node is known as a
   "constrained Join Proxy".  A= n enrolled Pledge can act as a Join
   Proxy.

Is a constrained Join Proxy and Join Proxy the same thing, or is one a su= btype of the other?  I.e., would it be clearer to say that an enrolled= Pledge can act as a constrained Join Proxy?

pvds =3D>
A= gree with your suggestion. Terminology reduction is always good.
=3D= =3D>


2. Sec 2.
   The term
&nb= sp;  "installation IP_address" refers to the set of addresses whi= ch are
   routable over the whole installation network.=
   
Is it referring to the set of addresses, or j= ust one out of the set of addresses?

NEW =3D=3D>
The ter= m "installation IP_address" refers to an address out of the set of addresse= s which are routable over the whole installation network.
=3D=3D>

3.  Sec 4.
    in an LLN mesh= can be
 
LLN doesn't seem to be defined anywhere.

NEW=3D=3D>
the Pledge (P), in a Low-Power and Lossy Network (LLN)= mesh
 {{RFC7102}} can be more than one hop away from the Registr= ar (R)
=3D=3D>

Ignoring Carsten's remark about being bad= ly defined.

4.  Sec 5.1, figure 2.

  &= nbsp;IP_P:p_P =3D Link-local IP address and port of Pledge (DTLS Client)   IP_R:5684 =3D Routable IP address and coaps port of Re= gistrar
   IP_Ja:P_J =3D Link-local IP address and join= -port of Join Proxy
   IP_Jb:p_Rb =3D Routable IP addre= ss and client port of Join Proxy

Really just a nit, but I assume= that this is a naming scheme here, but I didn't find it that intuitive, sp= ecifically for differentiating between a link-local and routable IP address= for the Join Proxy.  E.g., I was wondering if IP_Jl: and IP_Jr might = be clearer., but I'll leave this entirely to the authors discretion.
<= br />pvds=3D=3D>
Thanks, is clearer; changed as suggested in both f= igures
=3D=3D>

5. Sec 5.3.

  The   Registrar replaces the 5th "content" element with the = DTLS payload of
   the response message and leaves all = other array elements unchanged.
   
Possibly you c= ould be more explicit that the message is sent back?

NEW=3D=3D&g= t;
After replacing the 5th "content" element with the DTLS payload of = the response message and leaving all other array elements unchanged, the Re= gistrar returns the response message.
=3D=3D>


6. S= ec 5.3

   When additions are added to the array i= n later versions of this
   protocol, any additional ar= ray elements (i.e., not specified by
   current documen= t) MUST be ignored by a receiver if it doesn't know
   = these elements.  This approach allows evolution of the protocol while<= br />   maintaining backwards-compatibility.  A version= number isn't needed;
   that number is defined by the = length of the array.
   
 So, presumably new = elements can be added, but never removed again afterwards?

pvds= =3D=3D>
Yes, I addedd:
NEW=3D=3D>
 However, this = means that message elements are consistently added to earlier defined eleme= nts to avoid ambiguities.
=3D=3D>
=3D=3D>
 
=  7. Sec 6.
 
   | Ports   &nbs= p;   | Join Proxy needs       =     |Join Proxy and Registrar|
   |=             | = discoverable join-port     |need discoverable  &nb= sp;    |
   |    &nb= sp;        |    &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;          | join-por= ts             = |
   +-------------+----------------------------+------= ------------------+

At the point that I read this, I didn't unde= rstand why discoverable ports are needed for both the Join Proxy and Regist= rar for the stateless mode.  I think that led me to the separate quest= ion as to whether it wouldn't make more sense to have the section on Discov= ery before the comparison section.

pvds=3D=3D>
I see you= r point and put discovery section before comparison section
=3D=3D>=

8. Sec 7.
   

   = Three discovery cases are discussed: Join Proxy discovers Registrar,
&= nbsp;  Pledge discovers Registrar, and Pledge discovers Join Prox= y.  Each
   discovery case considers three alterna= tives: CoAP discovery, GRASP
   discovery, and 6tisch d= iscovery.

When reading this, it wasn't entirely clear to me unde= r what circumstances the different discovery mechanisms would be used. &nbs= p;Is it also possible that for some networks multiple discovery mechanisms = may be available, or would it always be the case that only one would be dep= loyed?

NEW=3D=3D>
Three discovery cases are discussed: J= oin Proxy discovers Registrar, Pledge discovers Registrar, and Pledge disco= vers Join Proxy. Each discovery case considers three alternatives: CoAP dis= covery, GRASP discovery, and 6tisch discovery. It depends on the type of in= stallation which discovery mechanisms are offered. It can be imagined that = manufacturers provide the pledge/join-proxy with more than one discovery me= chanism. The pledge/join-proxy can try one after the other mechanism untill= success is reached. Alternatively, at installation a switch is set to dete= rmine the discovery mechanism.
=3D=3D>

Finally, given th= e way that the options fall out, I did wonder if the document might be more= readable if the 2-dimensional array of options was described the other way= =2E  I.e., grouped primarily by whether CoAP or GRASP or 6tisch discov= ery is being used?

pvds=3D=3D>
This section has seen sev= eral structures, where this last structure seemed to give the best results = to generate readable text
=3D=3D>

9. Sec 8.

&= nbsp;  Another possibility is to use level 2 protection between R= egistrar
   and Join Proxy.
   
I don't understand what is meant by this.

NEW=3D=3D>
I= n some installations, level 2 protection is provided between all member pai= rs of the mesh. In such an enviroment encryption of the CBOR array is unnec= essay because the level 2 protection already provides it.
=3D=3D>

---

Minor spelling and grammar warnings from an = automated tool.

Spellings:
    aplicati= on,
    neighbour,
    ne= ighbouring,

Obviously neighbour isn't a spelling mistake, but fl= agging in case the intent is to be using American English :-)

pv= ds=3D=3D>
changed to american spelling convention
=3D=3D>
Grammar Warnings:
Section: 7.1.2, draft text:
Autonomic= Network Join Proxies MUST support GRASP discovery of Registrar as describe= d in section 4.3 of [RFC8995] .
Warning:  Don't put a space befor= e the full stop.
Suggested change:  "."

pvds=3D=3D>=
thanks, done
=3D=3D>

Section: 7.2.1, draft text:The discovery of the coaps Registrar, using coap discovery, by the Pled= ge follows sections 6.3 and 6.5.1 of [I-D.ietf-anima-constrained-voucher]..=
Warning:  Two consecutive dots
Suggested change:  "."<= br />
pvds=3D=3D>
done
=3D=3D>

Section: 7.3= =2E1, draft text:
Port numbers are assumed to be the default numbers 5= 683 and 5684 for coap and coaps respectively (sections 12.6 and 12.7 of [RF= C7252] when not shown in the response.
Warning:  Unpaired symbol= : ')' seems to be missing

pvds=3D=3D>
corrected
=3D= =3D>

Section: 8, draft text:
All of the concerns in [RFC= 8995] section 4.1 apply.
Warning:  Consider using all the.
= Suggested change:  "All the"
pvds=3D=3D>
also removed
=3D=3D>

Regards,
Rob

______________________= _________________________
Anima mailing list
Anima@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima
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text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164819458592.30378.5095944991263817544@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 00:49:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 07:49:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols Authors : Michael Richardson Peter van der Stok Panos Kampanakis Filename : draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2022-03-25 Abstract: This document defines a protocol to securely assign a Pledge to a domain, represented by a Registrar, using an intermediary node between Pledge and Registrar. This intermediary node is known as a "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a constrained Join Proxy. This document extends the work of Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) by replacing the Circuit-proxy between Pledge and Registrar by a stateless/stateful constrained Join Proxy. It relays join traffic from the Pledge to the Registrar. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Fri Mar 25 00:54:30 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81843A0F35 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 00:54:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bbhmail.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BFRWhG4QvKxo for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 00:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.hostedemail.com (relay5.hostedemail.com [64.99.140.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC0E23A0F0F for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omf09.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F2E2216C; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 07:54:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl) by omf09.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C837C2002B; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 07:54:16 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 08:54:16 +0100 From: Peter van der Stok To: anima@ietf.org Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Reply-To: stokcons@bbhmail.nl Mail-Reply-To: stokcons@bbhmail.nl In-Reply-To: <164819458592.30378.5095944991263817544@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <164819458592.30378.5095944991263817544@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <86d3c6224fd3390ce7a48ae74c264abe@bbhmail.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@bbhmail.nl Organization: vanderstok consultancy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_3c380f74a0e2a7b20edaf3c05b4c9226" X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout08 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C837C2002B X-Stat-Signature: qkpjn1u3eq3y5kmgdqkp1a6ube5dhwbz X-Session-Marker: 73746F6B636F6E73406262686D61696C2E6E6C X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX1+7HtzC+Cct6rdO9y3axTqmT5vTbo4OvFs= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bbhmail.nl; h=mime-version:date:from:to:cc:subject:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:message-id:content-type; s=key; bh=EDF4434MseYySISrGlz2Gc48mVIUgjBRhcdfmXIHdl8=; b=h3MWAJFs0Eyj8pYVLSlyxoIjO2sg3nNCvHm8lOAQLQBj9+VpHab+QlyvFtYMcDyNgNQVQFuZ0CbansOBMUOqCOFXFMBspnyqtk6LSFhwOXQNyKdepPKnG/YwrLmFZJI+cJg0MCJXGmnlYsFvk7CFbwsilJ8NRNM/BZXvcSo3Has= X-HE-Tag: 1648194856-855960 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 07:54:29 -0000 --=_3c380f74a0e2a7b20edaf3c05b4c9226 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi WG, A new version of constrained-join-proxy is submitted that includes the results of the AD review by Rob Wilton. Greetings, Peter internet-drafts@ietf.org schreef op 2022-03-25 08:49: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model > and Approach WG of the IETF. > > Title : Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols > Authors : Michael Richardson > Peter van der Stok > Panos Kampanakis > Filename : draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2022-03-25 > > Abstract: > This document defines a protocol to securely assign a Pledge to a > domain, represented by a Registrar, using an intermediary node > between Pledge and Registrar. This intermediary node is known as a > "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a > constrained Join Proxy. > > This document extends the work of Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key > Infrastructures (BRSKI) by replacing the Circuit-proxy between Pledge > and Registrar by a stateless/stateful constrained Join Proxy. It > relays join traffic from the Pledge to the Registrar. > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy/ > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07 > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at > rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima --=_3c380f74a0e2a7b20edaf3c05b4c9226 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Hi WG,

A new version of constrained-join-proxy is submitted that= includes the results of the AD review by Rob Wilton.

Greetings,=

Peter

internet-drafts@ietf.org schreef op 2022-03-25 08:49:=

=
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts di= rectories.
This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integ= rated Model and Approach WG of the IETF.

    = ;    Title        &n= bsp;  : Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols
&= nbsp;       Authors    &n= bsp;    : Michael Richardson
   &nb= sp;            =           Peter van der S= tok
           =             &nb= sp;  Panos Kampanakis
    Filename  = ;      : draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-pr= oxy-07.txt
    Pages      = ;     : 21
    Date  = ;          : 2022-03-25
Abstract:
   This document defines a protocol= to securely assign a Pledge to a
   domain, represente= d by a Registrar, using an intermediary node
   between= Pledge and Registrar.  This intermediary node is known as a
&nbs= p;  "constrained Join Proxy".  An enrolled Pledge can act as= a
   constrained Join Proxy.

  &n= bsp;This document extends the work of Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key
=    Infrastructures (BRSKI) by replacing the Circuit-proxy be= tween Pledge
   and Registrar by a stateless/stateful c= onstrained Join Proxy.  It
   relays join traffic = from the Pledge to the Registrar.


The IETF datatracker sta= tus page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-constraine= d-join-proxy/

There is also an htmlized version available at= :
http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-0= 7

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf= =2Eorg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-07
<= br />
Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::i= nternet-drafts


___________________________________________= ____
Anima mailing list
Anima@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/anima
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164820440484.30354.13802408245650689824@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 03:33:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-08.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:33:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols Authors : Michael Richardson Peter van der Stok Panos Kampanakis Filename : draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-08.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2022-03-25 Abstract: This document defines a protocol to securely assign a Pledge to a domain, represented by a Registrar, using an intermediary node between Pledge and Registrar. This intermediary node is known as a "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a constrained Join Proxy. This document extends the work of Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) by replacing the Circuit-proxy between Pledge and Registrar by a stateless/stateful constrained Join Proxy. It relays join traffic from the Pledge to the Registrar. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-08 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Fri Mar 25 06:38:19 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45B73A1272; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:38:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: anima@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: <164821549688.16808.3899436652783179107@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 06:38:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] I-D Action: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-09.txt X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:38:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG of the IETF. Title : Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols Authors : Michael Richardson Peter van der Stok Panos Kampanakis Filename : draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-09.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2022-03-25 Abstract: This document defines a protocol to securely assign a Pledge to a domain, represented by a Registrar, using an intermediary node between Pledge and Registrar. This intermediary node is known as a "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a constrained Join Proxy. This document extends the work of Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) by replacing the Circuit-proxy between Pledge and Registrar by a stateless/stateful constrained Join Proxy. It relays join traffic from the Pledge to the Registrar. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-09 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Fri Mar 25 07:37:44 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietf.org Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82963A0DE2; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy@ietf.org, jiangsheng@huawei.com, rwilton@cisco.com Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <164821904870.30683.10327026846912550543@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 07:37:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Last Call: (Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 14:37:37 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG (anima) to consider the following document: - 'Constrained Join Proxy for Bootstrapping Protocols' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2022-04-08. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines a protocol to securely assign a Pledge to a domain, represented by a Registrar, using an intermediary node between Pledge and Registrar. This intermediary node is known as a "constrained Join Proxy". An enrolled Pledge can act as a constrained Join Proxy. This document extends the work of Bootstrapping Remote Secure Key Infrastructures (BRSKI) by replacing the Circuit-proxy between Pledge and Registrar by a stateless/stateful constrained Join Proxy. It relays join traffic from the Pledge to the Registrar. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Mar 31 08:48:46 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85523A03F1 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:48:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VbDBsrIyMZxj for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66D233A00B2 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 08:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA3138D7C; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 11:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id me8GeNRBpPZE; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 11:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A7BF38D65; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 11:58:31 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1648742311; bh=TgDqFjaOwBXj3d+UmD3ImwlKYJ2eGnyiowtNjpMZpyk=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:Date:From; b=NcIaEoaiobHVKZLdUjKUdgOBzYqj/QqDwMmp6uVGwoSoQCtPJ4Uov6XbRTyiLNAdb VMgdg75tMGcZUCZVqQSdJMrofFF8q+6czNiVyheLOjEssnBr/5XpC+NamTCO7NIrtS ZZEQnTX5szhkY0zmQIMmdSIvsrxDCLrVYOlkP9fZbXWc8t5SGRehsZqve4A0Eh/Axg nBYRrmc4XcHSYVd0mPpDpdBD/2TInBpyzJtuDO+/LgRwTBa6H18ZuM/dOEH5ecIi5G G4sU+6GErNjsR6fjADtEJsK7TEW9p96hYQqLij8v8zv9tvBKYcHFTg1wktT+QPwjWT e8laVcuQKHhHw== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13EA4EE; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 11:47:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Robert Wilton , Mark Nottingham , Roman Danyliw cc: anima@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] /.well-known/brski reference to brski-registry X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:48:45 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We were discussing the /.well-known/cmp that is in being proposed in draft-= ietf-lamps-cmp-updates, We were comparing it to /.well-known/brski and /.well-known/est. https://www.iana.org/assignments/well-known-uris/well-known-uris.xhtml#w= ell-known-uris-1 BRSKI has a sub-registry at: https://www.iana.org/assignments/brski-parameters/brski-parameters.xhtml= #brski-well-known-uris Question 1) Why isn't the sub-registry referenced in the /.well-known registry? It seems like the sub-registry should be linked in the related information. Question 2) Should the CMP document be establishing a registry or not? =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmJFzR0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUNJQf9GDMOInYjX6Tc9wxvGJTJOlV35J3WELvGTgiMXHHw8ku5LpRn0ybCYKz0 5Gf5x2DXYJI4f9tbEss7jHxAuDkgqTdfOuwqWYN6h2Mhdmse7fqj4sQG8KSubWg6 hxmUDUVHAoSNw8P+iHglEiLq99AmNcVy6tvLw6KOuaNhN2ceWKeqb0Ehs32iv/pF U+kJWiI8EainRySsaiodPpTGFB59mShhbLukp/zLCiJpGyQF4NVJtAUxr2mlUaUj kE2Kku5lJHVNUtTjTA+Mx8IPEvqABbGRag4YO99BjEH5qojyqRE+ZwN8P9EoAWgG AWd9MU2Q3SN07Th7vLikP+4Jb3Tp2g== =OnLq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Mar 31 09:21:28 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99BB3A18FD; 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Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:20:56 +0000 From: "Brockhaus, Hendrik" To: Michael Richardson , Robert Wilton , Mark Nottingham , Roman Danyliw CC: "anima@ietf.org" , "spasm@ietf.org" , "david.von.oheimb@siemens.com" , "Fries, Steffen" , John Gray Thread-Topic: [Anima] /.well-known/brski reference to brski-registry Thread-Index: AQHYRRbzY8SMZTUrnkqG34qrYXpNj6zZqU6A Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:20:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <30686.1648741661@localhost> In-Reply-To: <30686.1648741661@localhost> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_SetDate=2022-03-31T16:20:52Z; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_Name=restricted-default; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_SiteId=38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_ActionId=5c643201-4e95-4b95-843b-44b4bea88408; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: siemens.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB6PR1001MB1269.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 59122107-b0b4-40b8-d9c6-08da13326f37 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Mar 2022 16:20:56.0945 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: BPtCO23ojiSirisheyPYp2KTKtAjOPfJPLEh2N7LoZoy6lWAYHQQNN1AHbRnaWlhz0Zx4HPK6R0qxcaFTkDWSHEtAlOoDsVBMCu/1J9ryiM= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR10MB3076 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] /.well-known/brski reference to brski-registry X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:21:16 -0000 Thank you Michael for rising the questions. > Von: Anima Im Auftrag von Michael Richardson > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. M=E4rz 2022 17:48 >=20 >=20 > We were discussing the /.well-known/cmp that is in being proposed in draf= t-ietf- > lamps-cmp-updates, We were comparing it to /.well-known/brski and /.well- > known/est. >=20 > Question 2) > Should the CMP document be establishing a registry or not? >=20 As discussed during IETF 113 I plan to do these things in CMP Updates - register 'cmp' in the "Well-Known URIs" registry - define a protocol registry group "Certificate Management Protocol (CMP)" - define a registry for "CMP Well-Known Arbitrary Label URI Segments" defin= ing 'p' to be followed by a . In addition I would define a registry for "CMP Well-Known Operation Label U= RI Segments" in Lightweight CMP Profile containing the path segments define= d three for http and coap use. Does this makes sense? Hendrik From nobody Thu Mar 31 09:52:28 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDD73A1B0E for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:51:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 59vIobgKhJfv for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 719C33A1BF3 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 09:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4892549E1E for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 18:49:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id C19FD4EAA98; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 18:49:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 18:49:21 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: anima@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] ANIMA IETF113 notes posted X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 16:51:06 -0000 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/minutes-113-anima-01 If you have suggestions for fixes, pls. just edit into notes.ietf.org source: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-anima And let us chair know, we will then re-import the notes. Cheers Toerless From nobody Thu Mar 31 10:37:03 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C353A1C09; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 10:36:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AepQ6sgkUOzA; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 10:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D825A3A1AEB; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 10:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8F8B549E1F; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:36:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id CE3E74EAA99; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:36:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 19:36:37 +0200 From: Toerless Eckert To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: ops-ads@ietf.org, Warren Kumari , Anima WG , anima-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] Rob pls. approve: Re: Rob/Warren: Early allocation request for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher (according to RFC7120) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:37:01 -0000 Hi Rob This request here somehow fell through the cracks. Pls. approve. Thanks Toerless In-Reply-To: On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 03:02:45PM -0400, Warren Kumari wrote: > This sounds fine to me, but actual approval should come from Rob. > W > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 7:35 PM wrote: > > > > Dear Rob, Warren, > > > > As chairs of the ANIMA WG, we hereby request your AD approval > > for early allocation of code points from IANA according to RFC7120 > > for draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher. > > > > This is similar to the early registration request we did for what > > is now RFC8366 (voucher), where we requested voucher encoding with CMS > > (application/voucher-cms+json) in 2019. > > > > We have now active development and interop work (during IETF111 Hackathon) > > for the new encoding option for the constained voucher via COSE. It would > > help the ongoing pre-production implementations a lot if they would not have to > > come up with non-assigned code-points now. > > > > Toerless (for the chairs) > > > > Draft: > > > > Reference document for registration request is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher-13 > > > > to be pushed soon after datatracker opens again, until then: > > > > https://github.com/anima-wg/constrained-voucher/blob/master/constrained-voucher.txt > > > > We request two early allocations: > > > > 1. IANA "Media Types" applications registry accordin to draft section 12.5/12.5.1: > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml#application > > > > Name Template Reference > > voucher-cose+cbor application/voucher-cose+cbor [draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher] > > > > Template according to reference draft, section 12.5.1: > > > > Type name: application > > Subtype name: voucher-cose+cbor > > Required parameters: none > > Optional parameters: none > > Encoding considerations: binary > > Security considerations: Security Considerations of THIS RFC. > > Interoperability considerations: The format is designed to be > > broadly interoperable. > > Published specification: THIS RFC. > > Applications that use this media type: ANIMA, 6tisch, and other > > zero-touch onboarding systems > > Additional information: > > Magic number(s): None > > File extension(s): .vch > > Macintosh file type code(s): none > > Person & email address to contact for further information: IETF > > ANIMA WG > > Intended usage: LIMITED > > Restrictions on usage: NONE > > Author: ANIMA WG > > Change controller: IETF > > Provisional registration? (standards tree only): NO > > > > 2. CoAP content type registy > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtml#content-formats > > > > Media type Encoding ID References > > ---------------------------- --------- ---- ---------- > > application/voucher-cose+cbor TBD3 [draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher] > > > > > > The ANIMA WG chairs have verified that the required conditions for > > early allocation from RFC7120, Section 2 are met: > > > > a) Standards Action (document is standards track ANIMA WG draft) > > > > b) The WG draft adequately describes the desired semantics. > > > > c) The WG participants actively working on implementations of the > > draft have confirmed that the semantic of the code point is > > stable to the extend that it is clear that the final > > RFC will need it, and active interoperability testing is ongoing, > > only challenged by availability of an early allocation. > > > > d) The working group chairs think that it would be highly helpful to > > receive an early allocation code point now to support further > > interoperability testing, ensuring that the final RFC has the > > highest level of practical vetting and can be finished as soon > > as possible. > > > > The request for early allocation was brought up in the working group > > and was faced with no disagreement. The working group chairs also > > understand that there is no risk of depletion of the registry in question. > > > > Thank you very much > > Toerless (for the chairs) > > > > -- > The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the > complexities of his own making. > -- E. W. Dijkstra From nobody Thu Mar 31 10:53:09 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCDA3A15F2; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 10:53:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D3kL7VIzLqnS; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 10:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.g24.pair.com (mail3.g24.pair.com [66.39.134.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE7103A160D; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.g24.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail3.g24.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174BC6C0F3; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 13:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pfs.iad.rg.net [198.180.150.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail3.g24.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE3CD6DF2D; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 13:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 13:52:51 -0400 Cc: Michael Richardson , Robert Wilton , Mark Nottingham , "Roman D. Danyliw" , "spasm@ietf.org" , "david.von.oheimb@siemens.com" , "Fries, Steffen" , "anima@ietf.org" , John Gray Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4ACC1227-F79D-42B8-B050-07FB0C2BC86A@vigilsec.com> References: <30686.1648741661@localhost> To: "Brockhaus, Hendrik" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] [lamps] /.well-known/brski reference to brski-registry X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:53:07 -0000 > On Mar 31, 2022, at 12:20 PM, Brockhaus, Hendrik = wrote: >=20 > Thank you Michael for rising the questions. >=20 >> Von: Anima Im Auftrag von Michael Richardson >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. M=C3=A4rz 2022 17:48 >>=20 >>=20 >> We were discussing the /.well-known/cmp that is in being proposed in = draft-ietf- >> lamps-cmp-updates, We were comparing it to /.well-known/brski and = /.well- >> known/est. >>=20 >> Question 2) >> Should the CMP document be establishing a registry or not? >>=20 > As discussed during IETF 113 I plan to do these things in CMP Updates > - register 'cmp' in the "Well-Known URIs" registry > - define a protocol registry group "Certificate Management Protocol = (CMP)" > - define a registry for "CMP Well-Known Arbitrary Label URI Segments" = defining 'p' to be followed by a . > In addition I would define a registry for "CMP Well-Known Operation = Label URI Segments" in Lightweight CMP Profile containing the path = segments defined three for http and coap use. >=20 > Does this makes sense? Hendrik: That is consistent with the discussion lat week. 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Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: <30686.1648741661@localhost> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 08:44:45 +1100 Cc: Robert Wilton , Roman Danyliw , anima@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B1BDC7B-EBE2-4B71-9077-79FC09ADB6B7@mnot.net> References: <30686.1648741661@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.80.82.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] /.well-known/brski reference to brski-registry X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:44:57 -0000 =46rom a registry expert POV - > On 1 Apr 2022, at 2:47 am, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > We were discussing the /.well-known/cmp that is in being proposed in = draft-ietf-lamps-cmp-updates, > We were comparing it to /.well-known/brski and /.well-known/est. > = https://www.iana.org/assignments/well-known-uris/well-known-uris.xhtml#wel= l-known-uris-1 >=20 > BRSKI has a sub-registry at: > = https://www.iana.org/assignments/brski-parameters/brski-parameters.xhtml#b= rski-well-known-uris >=20 > Question 1) > Why isn't the sub-registry referenced in the /.well-known registry? > It seems like the sub-registry should be linked in the related > information. Because they didn't ask for it, I imagine. Does seem like a good idea if = that's the case. > Question 2) > Should the CMP document be establishing a registry or not? Completely up to you -- how you manage the name spec "under" your = registration depends on the application at hand.=20 Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Thu Mar 31 15:12:28 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C163A1F47; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:12:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ogp6COpTCKhn; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfcpa.amsl.com (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE56E3A1F3B; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfcpa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 499) id 6FEC6AE92; Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:12:19 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, anima@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20220331221219.6FEC6AE92@rfcpa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Anima] =?utf-8?q?RFC_9222_on_Guidelines_for_Autonomic_Service_A?= =?utf-8?q?gents?= X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 22:12:26 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 9222 Title: Guidelines for Autonomic Service Agents Author: B. E. Carpenter, L. Ciavaglia, S. Jiang, P. Peloso Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: March 2022 Mailbox: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com, laurent.ciavaglia@rakuten.com, jiangsheng@huawei.com, pierre.peloso@nokia.com Pages: 23 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-anima-asa-guidelines-07.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9222 DOI: 10.17487/RFC9222 This document proposes guidelines for the design of Autonomic Service Agents for autonomic networks. Autonomic Service Agents, together with the Autonomic Network Infrastructure, the Autonomic Control Plane, and the GeneRic Autonomic Signaling Protocol, constitute base elements of an autonomic networking ecosystem. This document is a product of the Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. 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Danyliw" , "spasm@ietf.org" , "david.von.oheimb@siemens.com" , "Fries, Steffen" , "anima@ietf.org" , John Gray Thread-Topic: [lamps] [Anima] /.well-known/brski reference to brski-registry Thread-Index: AQHYRRbzY8SMZTUrnkqG34qrYXpNj6zZqU6AgAAcy4CAANEN4A== Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 06:25:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <30686.1648741661@localhost> <4ACC1227-F79D-42B8-B050-07FB0C2BC86A@vigilsec.com> In-Reply-To: <4ACC1227-F79D-42B8-B050-07FB0C2BC86A@vigilsec.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_SetDate=2022-04-01T06:25:00Z; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_Name=restricted-default; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_SiteId=38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a; MSIP_Label_a59b6cd5-d141-4a33-8bf1-0ca04484304f_ActionId=6898f096-50ab-4513-ba49-2f0349f78b2d; 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