Subject: [Asrg] What's going on

From: "Alan DeKok" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:50:49 -0400

I'm unsubscribing from ASRG.  I'm tired of appeals to authority,
misrepresentation of proposals, contradictory reasons for opposition
to proposals, and the "duck and cover" approach when peoples
objections are directly refuted.

  As someone trained professionally in problem solving and logic (with
a graduate degree in physics), I can recognize illogical and
fallacious arguments when I see them, despite not being a recognized
authority in DNS, spam, or fawning sycophanty.  ASRG is now divided
into two camps: The one proposing solutions, now matter how ugly or
awkward; and the one opposing solutions, based mainly on
contrary-to-fact arguments.

  The spam problem will be addressed despite ASRG, not because of it.

  To all of the people who have had a positive contribution, even when
we disagreed, I appreciate your efforts.  To the people who did their
best to oppose all contributions, you've got one less person to fight
against, and one more reason why you will be successful in preventing
the problem from every being solved.

  Alan DeKok.
_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg

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From: "Tom Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:18:07 +0100

I find myself largely in agreement with Alan, although I'm not unsubscribing
from ASRG just yet because there's still some [apparently small] chance that
the chairman will slap down the trouble-makers instead of those objecting to
those who respond to their provocative drivel.  If he doesn't, this
reswearch group is never going to achieve anything.

Like Alan, I'm trained in problem solving and logic (but unlike Alan my
post-grad qualifications are in Mathematics and in Engineering, not in
physics) so I can recognise illogical and fallacious arguments when I see
them.  Unfortunately some of the heaviest posters on ASRG post pretty well
nothing but illogical and fallacious arguments except when they are posting
unfounded (and easily discovered to be counter-factual) assertions.  And, as
Alan says, these are the people who are opposed to pretty well every
candidate proposal for a partial solution.

If those peddling this nonsense are allowed to continue as at present,
Alan's statement
	The spam problem will be addressed despite ASRG, not because of it.
will be an accurate prophecy.

Tom Thomson

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Alan
DeKok
Sent: 10 May 2003 17:51
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Asrg] What's going on

  Alan DeKok.

---

From: "Eric Dean" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:12:19 -0400

This is somewhat typical of most groups trying to gain a charter, however,
this particular topic is quite sensitive and has also attracted a diverse
set of individuals with varying backgrounds.  It's important to cultivate
the activities of newbies while also preserving the valuable time of
experts.  Alan is/was a tremendous asset to this group.  It's quite a
disservice to ourselves and the Internet community that we have chased him
off with our nonsense.  I suspect that once we propose a working draft or
two we will attract people like Alan back into our effort..until then, this
group should focus on producing drafts rather than producing disharmony.
Both debate and conflict are encouraged...but let's debate the ideas rather
than ego.

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Tom
> Thomson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:18 AM
> To: Alan DeKok; [email-masked]
> Subject: [Asrg] Does the group have a future?
>
>