Subject: [AVT] Switch to subscriber-only posting?

From: Stephen Casner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:56:51 -0800 (PST)

Should we change the configuration of this mailing list so that posts
are only accepted from subscribers?  That is a pretty effective
technique for reducing spam.  The downside is that it is inconvenient
for people who use multiple mailboxes.
							-- Steve

_______________________________________________
Audio/Video Transport Working Group
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt

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From: "James M. Polk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:41:54 -0600

I'd like the change

>for people who use multiple mailboxes.

*************************************
"People generally demand more respect for their own rights than they are
willing to allow for others"

James M. Polk
Consulting Engineer
Office of the CTO

Cisco Systems
2200 East President George Bush Turnpike 
Richardson, TX  75082 USA
w) 972.813.5208
f)  972.813.5280
www.cisco.com

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From: "Henning G. Schulzrinne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:58:22 -0500

> for people who use multiple mailboxes.

I would welcome such a change. As far as other mailboxes: I believe
mailman, the IETF mailing list software, prompts the owner of the list
to review rejected messages. This allows you or your designated
spammeister to forward any legitimate messages that failed the
membership test. Thus, this would only add a day or two of delay to such
messages. Given that spam messages are becoming increasingly graphic and
are a major pain and expense when traveling, I see no other realistic
option.

Thanks for considering this.

Henning
-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs

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From: Peter Johansson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:52:58 -1000

At 06:56 PM 1/17/02, Stephen Casner wrote:

>Should we change the configuration of this mailing list so that posts are 
>only accepted from subscribers?  That is a pretty effective
>technique for reducing spam.  The downside is that it is inconvenient for 
>people who use multiple mailboxes.

YES!

Regards,

Peter Johansson

Congruent Software, Inc.
98 Colorado Avenue
Berkeley, CA  94707

(510) 527-3926
(510) 527-3856 FAX

[email-masked]

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From: Stephen Casner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:19:08 -0800 (PST)

> for people who use multiple mailboxes.

Nobody objected to this change, and many emphatically supported it.
The only concern was that MIDCOM had tried this and it turned into a
long discussion on that list with the eventual result that it was
turned off.  In reading that discussion, it seems that the objections
arose because the poster received an autoreply saying the mail was
rejected, and that the wording of that autoreply was poorly chosen.

That objection can be avoided by not sending an autoreply and relying
on the list administrators (that would be your faithful WG chairs) to
pass or reject the messages.  I was hoping to avoid that work (so I
wouldn't have to look at the spam, either), but it looks like that is
not acceptable.

John Lazzaro made an excellent suggestion that posting by any ietf
list subscriber should be automatically allowed.  I asked Steve Coya
and Stanley Weilnau if the IETF mailman system coud be set up to do
this, and got a negative response.  Stanley seems to think that having
the admin do filtering is sufficient.  I still think this is an idea
that should be pursued, but it looks like a little programming will be
required.

So, we will change the list to subscriber-only, using admin approval
and no autoreply on non-subscriber bounces.

PLEASE, any of you who post from an address other than the one that is
subscribed:  you can subscribe from an alternate address and select no
delivery to that address.  To do this, first subscribe the alternate
address via email or the web link:

Then, after the subscription is established, go back to that web page
and enter the alternate address next to the "Edit Options" button at
the bottom of the page and click that button.  On the options page,
click the "Disable mail delivery" checkbox, enter the password that
you entered for the alternate address into the box at the bottom of
the page, and click "Submit My Changes".

Your password is mailed to you monthly.  If you forget it, you can
click the "Email My Password To Me" button in the middle of the
options page.
							-- Steve

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From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:31:44 -0500

> wouldn't have to look at the spam, either), but it looks like that is

The trouble is that, if you use aliases and multiple e-mail platforms, you
can be registered under one name and use another.

(In my case, tme is aliased to marshall_eubanks.)

So, if you are using a web browser based e-mail, it may change how your
name appears to the listserve, and messages may bounce.

802.11b is reducing the frequency of this, but...

What I tell people is that you should see to your messages sent to the list.
If you do not see a message you sent after a reasonable interval (12 hours),
then there is an error.

This needs to be stated somewhere on the web page or an IETF mail list
trouble page...

Marshall

-- 
                                 Regards
                                 Marshall Eubanks

T.M. Eubanks
Multicast Technologies, Inc
10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
Fairfax, Virginia 22030
Phone : 703-293-9624            Fax     : 703-293-9609
e-mail : [email-masked]

 Test your network for multicast : http://www.multicasttech.com/mt/
 Check the status of multicast in real time :
 http://www.multicasttech.com/status/index.html

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From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:31:54 -0500

Marshall

-- 
                                 Regards
                                 Marshall Eubanks

T.M. Eubanks

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From: Stephen Casner <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:55:57 -0800 (PST)

Marshall,

> (In my case, tme is aliased to marshall_eubanks.)

That can be accommodated by subscribing all your aliases to the list
but setting the "Disable mail delivery" option for all but one of them
so you only get one copy, as I explained in the bottom part of my message.

> name appears to the listserve, and messages may bounce.

Are you saying that each time you use it, the name on mail you sent is
different from previous times?  That we can't handle.  But if the name
is the same every time you use a particular web browser email service,
then you can sign up for the names associated with all the services
you need to use.

							-- Steve

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From: "Marshall Eubanks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:47:35 -0500

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:55:57 -0800 (PST)
> so you only get one copy, as I explained in the bottom
 
Dear Stephen;

    That is of course what I do, forced by circumstances. At
a recent conference, I used a web browser based emailer to
send some messages (to msec). These bounced because that
emailer treated aliases differently.

    Because msec had an autoreply, I was able to debug and
fix this in a few minutes. I just don't want people to have
their messages disappear into the ether without a clue.

     Again, if you are not going to have an autoreply, the
web site should make it clear that you should see a copy of 
your message, and failure to do so is an error.

    BTW, I like the idea of allowing cross posts between
IETF list members. More than once I have responded to a post
sent to more than one list, only to have the "other" list
post bounce, as I was not so subscribed.

             Marshall