Subject: CALSCH meeting minutes - London

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:32:35 -0400

Pat, co chair, went over the following agenda:
Agenda Bashing
Guide to Internet Calendaring
CalConnect Interoperability results - next plans
iCalendar Updates
Other drafts - SKICAL, CRISP
IPCPL - iCalendar
CAP draft
Update charter
 
Bob Mahoney gave a brief update on the Guide to Internet Calendaring. We 
asked people to review the list so it could go to IETF last call.

George mentioned that the Guide is now available in HTML format, and it 
will soon be available on the calsch.org website.

At this point, we moved up the IPTEL discussion so that the rep from that 
group) could leave early.  He asked the group to please help us  make a 
decision on how this issue (particularly with their request for changes to 
BYSETPOS).  Pat explained that we had spoken with the Area Director and he 
gave us some suggestions on what we could do.  We will try once again to 
see if we can resolve this over the list. Otherwise, Bob and Pat will work 
with Jonathan Lennox to come up with a one page summary on the issue and 
give it to Patrik for next steps.
 
Pat next covered the interop testing held in Standford in the first half 
of the year.  A final report will be on the list by the end of the month. 
We will hold the next interop in November at McGill University in 
Montreal.  Pat asked for some more vendors to participate.
 
Pat went over the CRISP document and SKICAL at which point she turned over 
the meeting to Greg Fitzpatrick to talk about SKICAL.
 
Greg talked about a document that shows the SKICAL reference in HTML 
format.  We are going to put it on calsch.org.  He also talked about an 
effort going on at the W3C in relation to iCalendar and RDF.  He said 
Libby Miller was the head of this effort and she will join us after the 
meeting so Greg can introduce her to the working group members.
 
Greg then went into discussion of where SKICAL is and how they have 
struggled with their effort in trying to define an Event type of draft. He 
talked about how they would like to see standardization on names such as 
what a vendor calls a meeting or event.  He correlated this to having an 
XML namespace where things were defined.  This may be hard to do as many 
vendors choose to call objects differently.
 
Greg pointed out that the ABNF and the examples are different when it 
comes to requiring a DTStart.  He said for his effort, not requiring a 
Replace DTStart with DTSTART would help.  We need to first fix the 
iCalendar spec and then determine which is correct for our draft - 
required or not required.  Greg feels there are other issues or changes to 
iCalendar that need to be addressed.  We aske him to put these on the 
list.

Greg talked about some work resurrecting the Chris Newman document on 
dates and times.  He wanted to know why we don't follow the ISO 8601 
standards and constructs.  John Stracke addressed this briefly.

John said that we do follow a subset of ISO 8601.

There was a general discussion about working with the W3C and how this 
becomes difficult.  There was a general discussion about the challenges of 
working with time.  Greg said it would be helpful to have a language 
property (like lang) added to iCalendar.  He said it could be called lang 
- John objected to this idea.

John objected because it was a French word. This was inconsistent with all 
the other names which are all in English.
 
Next George Babics did an update on CAP.  He went through the slides 
(copies included with this draft).  We announced we want to go to last 
call in December.  We also asked for more participation on the list so we 
can make sure we have consensus.  During the discussion about VCARs and 
their challenges, Ned Freed asked about how, in the document, do we 
explain how to determine the identity of a calendar.  In other words, how 
do we define what that should look like.  Our naming model may be too 
flexible.  Paul Hill said he just came from a SASL discussion and he said 
they were having the same challenges.  They are looking at application 
profiles that define these.  Some do it in the DN for LDAP and some do it 
for Kerberos.

George stated that we need more participation and participants since CAP 
is big and complex. The more people looking at it, the better. George 
mentioned that an HTML version of the CAP document will also soon be 
available on the calsch.org website.

John Stracke said we need to do a better job of defining our CAP
methods.

Ned then said he had just read the draft and had some comments.  He wanted 
to know if we had looked at the BEEP RFC.  We explained it was a timing 
issue.  BEEP was not around when we started working on our draft.  Ned 
suggested we move some of the overhead down into the "payload" portion and 
let something like BEEP manage the transport.  Pat asked if this should be 
a part of iTIP?
 
General questions from the audience.
 
Have we looked at a calendar other than Gregorian.  Answer is no for now. 
General discussion about this.  Talked about time in general.
 
Nick Shelness said our group had done a good job defining time and the 
issues associated with this effort.
 
Pat talked about the fact she had contacted Olson regarding interfacing 
with the IETF to establish a common timezone table.  Then, a member of the 
audience wondered if there needed to be some sort of Internet Time Space - 
this is beyond the scope of the IETF.
 
Someone wanted to know if we had looked into any of the presence 
documents.  He said we may want to think about somehow incorporating this 
into the drafts to manage where a person is at any point.
 
Pat talked about charter updates and whether or not we needed to resubmit 
our requirements document.  Ned suggested we look at the document and if 
there was nothing controversial, submit it as an information document.  If 
we have veered too much from the original document, then leaving expired 
may be best.

Guide to Internet Calendaring
?       In Working group last call
?       Most recent comments
?       Minor typos/grammer
?       Designate 

CalConnect II - Interop Testing
?       Standford University
?       Three Vendors
?       Lotus, Steltor, iPlanet
?       Significantly improved results
?       Report on list by end of week 8/13
?       Next Calconnect
?       Montreal ? McGill University
?       November 2001

iCalendar, iTIP, iMIP
?       Need to make changes found during interop testing
?       Do we want to resubmit draft that shows XML extensions for 
iCalendar?
?       Eric Busboom now main editor

Other Drafts
?       SKICAL ? last call
?       Crisp ? need to resubmit

CPL and iCalendar Issues
?       RECUR
?       BYSETPOS
?       What do we do?

CAP
What Is New In Version 5?
?       Use RFC 2629 (Writing I-Ds and RFCs using XML)
?       Added some new examples
?       Clarifications
?       Fixed some errors

Our Plans (1)
?       Resolve all open issues:
?       We have started posting them to the list
?       Finish all other outstanding tasks
?       Goal: last call in December
Our Plans (2)
?       Need more participation and participants!
?       CAP is large and complex
?       Many details

Open Issues: Fanout (1)
?       Fanout: ability for a CUA to communicate to a single server to be 
able to perform scheduling 
      operations with calendars on many CSs
?       MUST be able to do it with iMIP

Open Issues: Fanout (2)
?       Problems:
?       Can we map all the CAP commands into iMIP methods?
?       E.g. CREATE -> REQUEST
?       Security: how can the remote server trust the server doing fanout? 

Open Issues: Fanout (3)
?       Problems without fanout:
?       CUA has to manage scheduling using different types of addresses: 
CAP and email (iMIP)

Open Issues: Decreed VCARs
?       The ability to have administrator controlled immutable VCARs that 
apply to all calendars on the server.
?       E.g. disallow anyone from permitting anonymous users do gain 
access to their calendars
?       Problem: there is no way to identify decreed VCARs
?       Need new properties
?       Do we need them?

Open Issues: Restriction Tables
?       There are a number of issues with the Methods in the restriction 
tables
?       Check the draft for these issues
?       We should be addressing them soon

Open Issue: Delegation
?       CAP does not easily allow delegation
?       Some suggestions recently on how we can fix this

Outstanding Tasks
?       Register port number (5229) with IANA
?       Get new properties and components into iCalendar
?       E.g. VQUERY, GRANT
?       Add new examples, such as an entire "typical" session from start 
to finish
?       Review security
?       Review restriction tables

Charter Update
?       Current Charter
?       Note last call on CAP
?       Move Guide up food chain
?       Re-post requirements Doc?
?       Re-post CRISP?

---

From: John Stracke <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:18:08 -0400

[email-masked] wrote:

> Greg said it would be helpful to have a language property (like lang) 
> added to iCalendar.  He said it could be called lang - John objected 
> to this idea.
>
> John objected because it was a French word. This was inconsistent with 
> all the other names which are all in English.

Clarification: this discussion didn't happen in the meeting; it was 
referenced in the meeting.

There was an old SkiCal proposal (over a year ago) for a property called 
LANGUE for "what languages are required to understand this event".  At 
the time I objected (and Greg agreed) that it was problematic for 
developers whose native language is neither English nor French, because 
they'd have trouble keeping straight two very similar foreign words 
(LANGUE and LANGUAGE).  At the meeting, Greg said it would be a useful 
property, with a better name (I agree), and mentioned the old discussion 
by way of pointing out that it had come up before.

-- 
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