From nobody Fri Jun 2 05:48:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2299712EB70 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 05:48:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7G895FYjLryF for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 05:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com [96.114.28.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E027E12EB69 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 05:47:58 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 60721c4c-c90f99a00000211d-74-59315e7be0a2 Received: from VAADCEX38.cable.comcast.com (vaadcmhoutvip.cable.comcast.com [96.115.73.56]) (using TLS with cipher AES256-SHA256 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by vaadcmhout02.cable.comcast.com (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id B0.3F.08477.B7E51395; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from VAADCEX37.cable.comcast.com (147.191.103.214) by VAADCEX38.cable.comcast.com (147.191.103.215) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:47:53 -0400 Received: from VAADCEX37.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe12:38b0]) by VAADCEX37.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe12:38b0%19]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:47:53 -0400 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Martin Thomson CC: Warren Kumari , Dave Dolson , Heiko Folkerts , "captive-portals@ietf.org" , "Herzig, Willi" , Gunther Nitzsche Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" Thread-Index: AQHSxAsr/rX0EbUlVEm8/bwr+5Qk+KHi37QAgAGthoCAKpkfAIAAe5YAgAIS5AA= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:47:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.21.0.170409 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [68.87.29.11] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 05 Jun 2017 02:15:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.8.66 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 02:15:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> From: Martin Thomson Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 19:15:20 +1000 Message-ID: To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: Warren Kumari , Dave Dolson , Heiko Folkerts , "captive-portals@ietf.org" , "Herzig, Willi" , Gunther Nitzsche Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 09:15:25 -0000 On 2 June 2017 at 22:47, Livingood, Jason wro= te: > I=E2=80=99m merely confirming that others share the same use case specifi= ed by the German Federal Office for Information Security. Yeah, I can agree that this is a very common desire. And I'm glad that it's the use case that matters, because I believe that the specific methods you referred to are negatively regarded in many circles. The need to send notices with users with whom you don't have an active communications session is why we developed web push, but that still requires humans. The "things" case is tricky, and I suspect that - at list in the short term - CAPPORT won't have much to offer there. Though I don't think that we need to abandon hope of finding some options. Again in web push we've had some success with voluntary provision of contact details, see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-webpush-vapid-02 From nobody Tue Jun 6 07:08:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1D7128CFF for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 07:08:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=netcologne.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0tHvVKqIUHG2 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 07:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cc-smtpout1.netcologne.de (cc-smtpout1.netcologne.de [IPv6:2001:4dd0:100:1062:25:2:0:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2464126C0F for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 07:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cc-smtpin1.netcologne.de (cc-smtpin1.netcologne.de [89.1.8.201]) by cc-smtpout1.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE75713486; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:08:11 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=netcologne.de; s=nc1116a; t=1496758091; bh=k9w1TcMc0E7SlrPV3EKe6ZhgbX8yvVHl7W66ztOJcpE=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=R0oUnWfoM/Lxp+ZLjauxqoE0g06E7x9idViU5PdnclVUjQSTyTi97Q5pv1I5yHe57 nJPbKDL0WT2qGFEsoKwwUjeDRoLBZq9JwCjYrMGQnKc6lXpfLXAHt1iqkA7V9eA1V/ q9DgrqNK24cAju/4/V7A7p5maE0c0nzrG/P8b0c8FuZG5qu6ZQ/DeSeij6M2AzJZhe YxCmCFhERcatYmKfa4nARy31qW7pjJ4OyvrS4A8Y4qij2HpYNUhI6WiSe8vXZrPKwU q23DtdNyCTg6Nt1xTXss6Lfg8toYMQHJZ3/GARVQfAQUnLRsOmhs2NH3nMuSEOMHRM x9d3tDggrc/Pg== Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cc-smtpin1.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A030C11D75; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:08:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [2001:4dd0:0:193:222::] (helo=cc-smtpin1.netcologne.de) by localhost with ESMTP (eXpurgate 4.1.9) (envelope-from ) id 5936b74b-021e-7f0000012729-7f0000018428-1 for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:08:11 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:2001:4dd0:0:193:222::] (sys-222.netcologne.de [IPv6:2001:4dd0:0:193:222::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cc-smtpin1.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:08:10 +0200 (CEST) To: "Livingood, Jason" , Martin Thomson References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> Cc: Heiko Folkerts , Warren Kumari , "captive-portals@ietf.org" , "Herzig, Willi" , Dave Dolson From: Gunther Nitzsche X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:08:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 14:08:17 -0000 On 02.06.2017 14:47, Livingood, Jason wrote: > [JL] But let me summarize the malware/hacked IoT device use case. A com= puting device is compromised and being used as part of a DDoS attack (a l= a the Dyn attack) or sending spam or doing keylogging or whatever. One al= ternative is to put them in a walled garden with CAPPORT whereby they hav= e no access from any device in the home or, if the network architecture c= an do it, no access for only that specific device (other=20 > The CAPPORT walled garden page would direct the device(s) or user(s) to= a page explaining what the malware is and how to remediate, for example.= =20 =2E.And how to get out of the walled garden. (nobody wants to stay there= ) > Another alternative is a method to direct a device to a page / deliver = a message about this malware issue without otherwise affecting or constra= ining their Internet access. In this alternative method, the objective is= to get a critical security message to the user (e.g. Device X has malwar= e Y and needs to be fixed ASAP) while not affecting things like gaming, O= TT voice, OTT video, etc. This alternative is no option. The device in question seems to be a real danger for other internet users and also for the device owner himself (like data loss..). Letting traffic be unaffected by a walled garden means that a participation in e.g. a DDoS attack will go on. A differentiation between "internet" and "voice" should be made though. (skype would be considered as internet use) A POP-UP window or notification during gaming / trading / whatsoever will just be ignored or delete-clicked or not even noticed because of not having a browser like tool. But that is a topic for a different mailinglist - "how to react to internet abuse". MAAWG and others are discussing this for many years now ..:) We do stop internet access in case of abuse immediately and have therefor built our own form of walled garden; others may have a more tolerant view or just have bad contracts with their customers :/ So it seems we agree that there are valid reasons for walled gardens - now we should concentrate on *how* to implement this in the best way. (the 511 error page does not seem to be the worst variant.. if the user sees an error in the browser then the next reload puts him to the correct walled garden page) best greetings, Gunther NetCologne Systemadministration --=20 NetCologne Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr Telekommunikation mbH Am Coloneum 9 ; 50829 K=C3=B6ln Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: =20 Timo von Lepel, Mario Wilhelm =20 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Dr. Andreas Cerbe HRB 25580, AG K=C3=B6ln From nobody Sun Jun 11 23:17:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9AAE129C00 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:17:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id shIgbWZPZirN for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:17:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22f.google.com (mail-yw0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C432B129BF8 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id e142so24940227ywa.1 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:17:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HZCrOu5OIb4q4iH0QTu0NwSK73Nqc9gWDI+nDybhCY8=; b=mLpunfSO3XU95e51fO3OlhAhWrdHJgDP/EzeNmrUqAYSP0tzNSym52A3uia/9LY0ux V66sK+PgUs9N9JB40NstEYdOkvrL80mb3X9f/7FMoype1gIfcssltLysgQcg9IL2o5+N kMz3wDOIT8v5ecsm/4yurCP843EAk3VQjQIBrP5hIYu2mLMd0LwqDZrbcwfDc1EutphU 3xN0up004XQK+k8281SctLm+gWpIWaQls6JOSWwJCFCts9Mhhn9suGjPbDAHEgHTiatv m3wrm0K+saNkIDi7vun1RXB3zbIQBp6xGOOMI+Zi/i2+WhjxuRoHRqLD5D2XatUQKPkx Zzfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HZCrOu5OIb4q4iH0QTu0NwSK73Nqc9gWDI+nDybhCY8=; b=A61kCqfKZsLj3Q+0uVwum8V1MtySwycWo4JCD7YnwGZhzY1f+eoDxATgfFqp0xBZ/e NXCOzPK61H+rSgZcb2YK91KRog1ZpfpreHGULRkh14vvlvtXEU4vHB43Zvh5MKx8Pf1/ hx0xsCKMZfzq9n2HZPRGVZPp0DrzmV0ktELDc6Gd5qVkBPdlROadlIT1/VgI4NgNIINI j7iqsJKoSYY9e/8AhlFlVjVjLN5e9sviRoM1wx+ItxqLZuLcN9g8GkvNJB4dSOaoBmhL hr+u9Kho+v8T/8eaju1zSm4fSv57rzsWqopAxPsfbivjkSsVh2/rMrOCdXAGqbC7oGaR iefA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDFc801XxiBaAh88CK/5SlONTtqdSkH6Fs0Rl5Jf8/5G0PA2g6s 5yLtloP86VVIs1g48pf7QufY/dw7m4Hg X-Received: by 10.13.206.133 with SMTP id q127mr10210909ywd.114.1497248258828; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:17:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.50.141 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2017 23:17:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> From: Erik Kline Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:17:18 +0900 Message-ID: To: Gunther Nitzsche , Mark Townsley Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , Martin Thomson , Heiko Folkerts , "captive-portals@ietf.org" , "Herzig, Willi" , Warren Kumari , Dave Dolson Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="001a114e4e5ea227c70551bd461a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:17:42 -0000 --001a114e4e5ea227c70551bd461a Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114e4e5e9c4d040551bd4665" --001a114e4e5e9c4d040551bd4665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > (the 511 error page does not seem to be the worst variant.. if the user > sees an error in the browser > then the next reload puts him to the correct walled garden page) > Some observations, and questions for the working group. I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511 is useful or not. There seemed to be some suggestion it would help, and some that it wouldn't. Perhaps one question we could ask is whether it's harmful? And if we agree it's not harmful, is it worth developing some recommendations for its use? As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think it would be harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now). Is that something we wish to progress? Given that we're probably looking at a portal detection method based on entirely new work, it seems to me we're free to look at new things like utilizing the PVD detection scheme (DNS queries for "provisioning domain names", followed by other interaction still TBD). Have the portal implementors reviewed this and given consideration as to whether its useful? (I think of the discovery of the portal and subsequent interaction with it as 2 separate processes conducted, obviously, in serial.) Thoughts? --001a114e4e5e9c4d040551bd4665 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(the 511 error page does not seem to be the wors= t variant.. if the user
sees an error in the browser
then the next reload puts him to the correct walled garden page)

Some observations, and questions for the working = group.

I'm not sure we have enough input on wh= ether 511 is useful or not.=C2=A0 There seemed to be some suggestion it wou= ld help, and some that it wouldn't.=C2=A0 Perhaps one question we could= ask is whether it's harmful?=C2=A0 And if we agree it's not harmfu= l, is it worth developing some recommendations for its use?

<= /div>
As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think i= t would be harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now).=C2=A0 Is that= something we wish to progress?

Given that we'= re probably looking at a portal detection method based on entirely new work= , it seems to me we're free to look at new things like utilizing the PV= D detection scheme (DNS queries for "provisioning domain names", = followed by other interaction still TBD).=C2=A0 Have the portal implementor= s reviewed this and given consideration as to whether its useful? =C2=A0(I = think of the discovery of the portal and subsequent interaction with it as = 2 separate processes conducted, obviously, in serial.)

=
Thoughts?
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captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2FEE12EAF1 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 11:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJF60oRHooKs for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FA0B12960D for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2719CE235 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655E8636BB for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "captive-portals\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:33:55 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Erik Kline wrote: > Some observations, and questions for the working group. > I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511 is useful or not. > There seemed to be some suggestion it would help, and some that it > wouldn't. Perhaps one question we could ask is whether it's harmful? > And if we agree it's not harmful, is it worth developing some > recommendations for its use? I think you are asking the right question here. > As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think it would > be harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now). Is that > something we wish to progress? I am keen to see it progress as you describe. > Given that we're probably looking at a portal detection method based > on entirely new work, it seems to me we're free to look at new things > like utilizing the PVD detection scheme (DNS queries for "provisioning > domain names", followed by other interaction still TBD). Have the > portal implementors reviewed this and given consideration as to > whether its useful? (I think of the discovery of the portal and > subsequent interaction with it as 2 separate processes conducted, > obviously, in serial.) On this topic, I imagine you have all read about: https://www.malwaretech.com/2017/05/how-to-accidentally-stop-a-global-cyber-attacks.html In which the investigator discovers that this malware looked for zones that ought not to exist, and if they did, assumed it was in a quaranteen/lab.. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlk+3o8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUAmAf/UaRs7bVFhhXnRwHZYRiWhYlUlBTHnu1OF1PeniNnI45seyufglhS5V4e hGH+a1JijUGLnWcAZd2qHivTDVLpJnoujV4GZ0NZV8gJmYQg7yhbCWhFMFZaEJ0A nAeOzY7iwEwZ3r2IzLNk9mvFqTParbZ0F11o8EL3SsJx+l8ysnnEI/GnHPFLMz5i rmc2wcykIleKZG3I5W2ept4YxEWjITSsW5V3JWXm/rgsxGZQETXqbd9RI6vk/rQw 8bz/owN6f9z4EfnSYdaK5X6pch6jtmjjnzA7GM3baNTucHihTqb8bIoMMsZjRm6Z OnkVn4NqY1xvd8QnfsHkVFlHsdNJxA== =pZWG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jun 14 07:32:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9623126B6D for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qYl325EFmCdj for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x230.google.com (mail-it0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 376D312DDD2 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x230.google.com with SMTP id l6so493484iti.1 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0zeAKp+BGr9wJAS4EB68w3Dj3T/9gIfT5Y9gWJ4EKRY=; b=XwIs5iG6xP0SaAgC/+eRQU6q8lHsdPio8PdzbrGc52iV8jQ/OYbjSU+Sd9DKnV5ZmV R8lDc2AhdgVjr2ofy6t69Tp5a+7/AX8srDJi7ZtcDLGHStHlVBuz30VzXwYJULZ0/5XJ Sx/FTLllYvA/nMJDEvuogJCfy/teR2oBCLmQ8G3D9Mng7vTpm2GRdVzkBM+wK0Odsf5W KPXoWnPtByZYwx01PGP+qEbkMH590jgDTNjMbfecs4EUNg6ZsI75En3ZjGell6S/A0Kc GbkrL9SzhFPlg3rQwTsDOwYSR/YOOjmvYO2UNSjYilrVhC5IT75LVfGn4WCPhoScLz8I +JRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0zeAKp+BGr9wJAS4EB68w3Dj3T/9gIfT5Y9gWJ4EKRY=; b=aCwMA1FfHVAZ9Lw8/y/jIrSLF4AKrBNBF8fLXVwf90bxDN/orOOTMNXZdTioreTruG G3IIXoiplYv5uplalynB1xPLZd0oLe0T00fD4WcaGKGb8qU00zI2vtrxWUKl8FMrH2DQ LxSjPEzkxzdPoC9RIt/zpq5/StH5/FeCif6f6ricAdNHnacPLtUBPILXBDZqW8SLxf87 kUtdqWUXIpuoZip2QC2CBCK1CYiuJSoiPgr0ZkYoR8bBIt9IIxegz8E8ZmDa8S8Gwacb zDbFxERzpZ3AB36xMMto87BKNODqblAogwAoa70NWXJQigmUPi3ML1m4bect4+jhe8kz MrGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxp9SVCZsU9JAHlLBG7ennaoKfykpf+e4Srd3YfC5T0T3sbobim ecWl9kDjkcpvPIJ6Tz8qUfYTAe32hZuZ X-Received: by 10.36.73.82 with SMTP id z79mr134399ita.20.1497447361345; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.14.144 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> From: David Bird Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 06:36:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: Erik Kline Cc: Gunther Nitzsche , Mark Townsley , Heiko Folkerts , Martin Thomson , "captive-portals@ietf.org" , "Livingood, Jason" , "Herzig, Willi" , Warren Kumari , Dave Dolson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c147a60b79390551eba21a" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 07:32:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:36:05 -0000 --001a11c147a60b79390551eba21a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Erik Kline wrote: > > I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511 is useful or not. There > seemed to be some suggestion it would help, and some that it wouldn't. > Perhaps one question we could ask is whether it's harmful? And if we agree > it's not harmful, is it worth developing some recommendations for its use? > > In of itself, I don't believe it is harmful. However, if vendors use it as a reason to continue to terminate TLS connection in order to deliver the 511, then perhaps it is a bit harmful - or at least misleading. As the world moves to TLS (and QUIC), I think the time for the 511 code has already passed, to some degree. That, combined with the fact you may still have browsers not handling that return code properly, I don't see the value for any vendor or venue to implement this. > As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think it would be > harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now). Is that something we > wish to progress? > > I will work on a new draft that is only the basics. The additional fields could always be add in their own draft as extensions. > Given that we're probably looking at a portal detection method based on > entirely new work, it seems to me we're free to look at new things like > utilizing the PVD detection scheme (DNS queries for "provisioning domain > names", followed by other interaction still TBD). Have the portal > implementors reviewed this and given consideration as to whether its > useful? (I think of the discovery of the portal and subsequent interaction > with it as 2 separate processes conducted, obviously, in serial.) > > I believe there are several talking points here, as the PvD method seems to have several possible implementations. I think requiring Ipv6 to configure Ipv4 is weird (I believe that was one proposed method to convey configuration) Several points I made in the thread "Arguments against any Capport API" regarding a web service - detached from the NAS - controlling the UE/station I think are relevant. If the authors of the PvD concept (re-)present their I-D to the mailing list, and stick around for discussion, that would be helpful. > Thoughts? > > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals > > --001a11c147a60b79390551eba21a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Jun 11, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
I'm not sure we have enough input on whe= ther 511 is useful or not.=C2=A0 There seemed to be some suggestion it woul= d help, and some that it wouldn't.=C2=A0 Perhaps one question we could = ask is whether it's harmful?=C2=A0 And if we agree it's not harmful= , is it worth developing some recommendations for its use?


In of itself, I don&= #39;t believe it is harmful. However, if vendors use it as a reason to cont= inue to terminate TLS connection in order to deliver the 511, then perhaps = it is a bit harmful - or at least misleading. As the world moves to TLS (an= d QUIC), I think the time for the 511 code has already passed, to some degr= ee. That, combined with the fact you may still have browsers not handling t= hat return code properly, I don't see the value for any vendor or venue= to implement this.

=C2=A0
As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly d= on't think it would be harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now= ).=C2=A0 Is that something we wish to progress?

<= /div>

I will work on a new draft that= is only the basics. The additional fields could always be add in their own= draft as extensions.=C2=A0

=C2=A0
Given that we're probably looking at a= portal detection method based on entirely new work, it seems to me we'= re free to look at new things like utilizing the PVD detection scheme (DNS = queries for "provisioning domain names", followed by other intera= ction still TBD).=C2=A0 Have the portal implementors reviewed this and give= n consideration as to whether its useful? =C2=A0(I think of the discovery o= f the portal and subsequent interaction with it as 2 separate processes con= ducted, obviously, in serial.)


I believe there are several talking points here,= as the PvD method seems to have several possible implementations.=C2=A0

I think requiring Ipv6 to configure Ipv4 is weird (I= believe that was one proposed method to convey configuration)
Several points I made in the thread "Arguments against an= y Capport API" regarding a web service - detached from the NAS - contr= olling the UE/station I think are relevant.

If the= authors of the PvD concept (re-)present their I-D to the mailing list, and= stick around for discussion, that would be helpful.=C2=A0

=C2=A0
Thoughts?

_______________________________________________
Captive-portals mailing list
Captive-portals@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/capt= ive-portals


--001a11c147a60b79390551eba21a-- From nobody Fri Jun 16 12:55:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED77131838 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:55:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zcb8OQ2q-euS for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52DDC1200CF for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:55:47 -0400 From: Vincent van Dam To: Erik Kline , "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" Thread-Index: AQHSxAspGAKR2pQXH0S4g9AKfgQ9q6Hi37QAgAGthoCAKua1AIAALgAAgAJV74CABl/BAIAI6m4AgAbqz5E= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:55:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, en-US Content-Language: nl-NL X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [83.128.243.22] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D2A19ABBC0147C40BFBB83D1CF3E95F03FF8AD13wtlexchp2sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:55:51 -0000 --_000_D2A19ABBC0147C40BFBB83D1CF3E95F03FF8AD13wtlexchp2sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Some observations, and questions for the working group. > > I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511 is useful or not. There= seemed to be some suggestion > it would help, and some that it wouldn't. Perhaps one question we could = ask is whether it's harmful? And > if we agree it's not harmful, is it worth developing some recommendations= for its use? I don=92t think it=92s harmful, and I don=92t see why web browsers wouldn= =92t support it. What has been specified for this status code is basicly th= e status, and a custom error page with a html variant of a redirect. Web br= owsers, even if they don=92t understand the full detail of the error, they = will display the contents of the response. The browser will process the htm= l of this customised error page and do the redirect. But I don=92t see this as a holy grail for improving capports (not at all).= I see this as a feasible alternative for capport providers that are curren= tly hijacking http traffic. In these implementations, they can =93confuse= =94/=93poison=94 cache and apis. They do this by using redirects or hosting= an alternative capport site by hijacking the dns. In these situations, it = would improve the experience if they would do a status code 511 and use tha= t to move the user to the capport url. As a recommendation; I would like to discourage any hijacking (http 30x and= dns hijacking), but if a capport provider feels this is the way to go, I t= hink we can point them to this =91friendlier=92 method. > As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think it would be h= armful (with the extra URL bits > removed for now). Is that something we wish to progress? I think this will be the best way to signal the UE, I am glad David is work= ing on this :-) > Given that we're probably looking at a portal detection method based on e= ntirely new work, it seems to me > we're free to look at new things like utilizing the PVD detection scheme = (DNS queries for "provisioning > domain names", followed by other interaction still TBD). Have the portal= implementors reviewed this and > given consideration as to whether its useful? (I think of the discovery = of the portal and subsequent interaction > with it as 2 separate processes conducted, obviously, in serial.) I think the multi-hop scenario forces us to think of alternative ways to di= scover the captive portal url when the UE did not receive it via dhcp. With= out an alternative method, the icmp, relying on this url will only have a l= imited scope where it can be applied. Although this sounds much like an api= , I think we should limit the functionality of it to what is required (the = captive portal url as being the only identified requirement imo). Gr., Vincent --_000_D2A19ABBC0147C40BFBB83D1CF3E95F03FF8AD13wtlexchp2sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Some observations, and questions for the wo= rking group.
> 
> I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511 is useful or not= .  There seemed to be some suggestion
> it would help, and some that it wouldn't.  Perhaps one quest= ion we could ask is whether it's harmful?  And
> if we agree it's not harmful, is it worth developing some recomme= ndations for its use?

I don=92t think it=92s harmful, and I don=92t see why web browsers wouldn= =92t support it. What has been specified for this status code is basicly th= e status, and a custom error page with a html variant of a redirect. Web br= owsers, even if they don=92t understand the full detail of the error, they will display the contents of the response. = The browser will process the html of this customised error page and do the = redirect.


But I don=92t see this as a holy grail for improving capports (not at all).= I see this as a feasible alternative for capport providers that are curren= tly hijacking http traffic. In these implementations, they can =93confuse= =94/=93poison=94 cache and apis. They do this by using redirects or hosting an alternative capport site by hijacking the= dns. In these situations, it would improve the experience if they would do= a status code 511 and use that to move the user to the capport url. <= /p>


As a recommendation; I would like to discourage any hijacking (http 30x and= dns hijacking), but if a capport provider feels this is the way to go, I t= hink we can point them to this =91friendlier=92 method.


> As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think it wo= uld be harmful (with the extra URL bits
> removed for now).  Is that something we wish to progress?

I think this will be the best way to signal the UE, I am glad David is work= ing on this :-)


> Given that we're probably looking at a portal detection method ba= sed on entirely new work, it seems to me
> we're free to look at new things like utilizing the PVD detection= scheme (DNS queries for "provisioning
> domain names", followed by other interaction still TBD).&nbs= p; Have the portal implementors reviewed this and
> given consideration as to whether its useful?  (I think of t= he discovery of the portal and subsequent interaction
> with it as 2 separate processes conducted, obviously, in serial.)=

I think the multi-hop scenario forces us to think of alternative ways to di= scover the captive portal url when the UE did not receive it via dhcp. With= out an alternative method, the icmp, relying on this url will only have a l= imited scope where it can be applied. Although this sounds much like an api, I think we should limit the functio= nality of it to what is required (the captive portal url as being the only = identified requirement imo).


Gr., Vincent


--_000_D2A19ABBC0147C40BFBB83D1CF3E95F03FF8AD13wtlexchp2sandvi_-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 11:11:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F400912708C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:11:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IRIgqMYLekfX for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47E6412717E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.194.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:11:24 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:11:24 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Vincent van Dam , David Bird , Erik Kline CC: "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code Thread-Index: AQHSxwjSIR4ujCHIEk2JPkRI6Cld3aHpdqUAgAAJPICASYFSsA== Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:11:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987061F965wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:11:29 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987061F965wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser requests-clearly a= n error instead of redirecting to something unexpected. Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome than = 307. Do we expect the enforcement device should be checking user-agent to decide= on 511 vs. 30x code? For captive portals to want to use 511 (vs. 307), the browsers would have t= o behave in a better way from the network operator's perspective. I would expect the browsers to show the information that the operator wants= to be displayed. Having said all of that, this solution is specific to HTTP, vs. the ICMP ap= proach that works for any protocol. -Dave From: Captive-portals [mailto:captive-portals-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O= f Vincent van Dam Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 3:09 PM To: David Bird; Erik Kline Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code - A legacy 30X response will still be needed for some user-agents Is that because you don't expect all user-agents (webbrowsers specifically)= to support it? - The response contains HTML that should contain the login URL (or a meta r= efresh, etc), which isn't a very well structured way to get the URL I agree, it makes more sense that the url would be in a response header ins= tead (like the 30x status). It is not intended to encourage deployment of captive portals -- only to limit the damage caused by them. Damage? Hm... In terms of non-browsers accessing apis, they should be using TLS! And perh= aps not follow redirects or otherwise add some integrity to their api. I agree, apis should use tls. Not every developer might agree though (a res= t api containing weather predictions?). But also, I don't think we can fix the world, fix every api/client that is = ever made. We can only at least identify mitm 30x scenarios are implemented= , and try to regulate that scenario a bit more, which has been done by intr= oducing the 511. ________________________________ Van: Captive-portals [captive-portals-bounces@ietf.org] namens David Bird [= dbird@google.com] Verzonden: zondag 7 mei 2017 20:36 Aan: Erik Kline CC: captive-portals@ietf.org Onderwerp: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code I personally do not find it very useful in public access networks, because: - A legacy 30X response will still be needed for some user-agents - Returning 511 is still a man-in-the-middle response (nothing changed ther= e) - The response contains HTML that should contain the login URL (or a meta r= efresh, etc), which isn't a very well structured way to get the URL - differences in how browsers handle the 'error' and the associated user ex= perience There are a couple other oddities: Note that the 511 response SHOULD NOT contain a challenge or the login interface itself, because browsers would show the login interface as being associated with the originally requested URL, which may cause confusion. Why shouldn't it contain a challenge? (the reason given only relates to the= 'login interface itself'). It is not intended to encourage deployment of captive portals -- only to limit the damage caused by them. Damage? Hm... In terms of non-browsers accessing apis, they should be using TLS! And perh= aps not follow redirects or otherwise add some integrity to their api. On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Erik Kline > wrote: I wanted to poll the group's thoughts on the usefulness of the rfc6585#sect= ion-6 511 HTTP status code. Has anybody tried to serve 511s to clients, and if so what were the results= ? Might it be useful to serve an API endpoint (rather than the full-blown HTM= L UI)? I'm trying to get a sense of whether this will be a useful tool to use in a= ssembling a recommended portal interaction. If we determine it's not reall= y going to be a workable component, then that's useful to know too. _______________________________________________ Captive-portals mailing list Captive-portals@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987061F965wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It seems 511 is probably = better than 30x for non-browser requests—clearly an error instead of = redirecting to something unexpected.

Is 511 likely to be OK fo= r old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome than 307.

 <= /p>

Do we expect the enforcem= ent device should be checking user-agent to decide on 511 vs. 30x code?

 <= /p>

For captive portals to wa= nt to use 511 (vs. 307), the browsers would have to behave in a better way = from the network operator’s perspective.

I would expect the browse= rs to show the information that the operator wants to be displayed.

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

Having said all of that, = this solution is specific to HTTP, vs. the ICMP approach that works for any= protocol.

 <= /p>

-Dave

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Captive-= portals [mailto:captive-portals-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Vincent van Dam
Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 3:09 PM
To: David Bird; Erik Kline
Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code<= o:p>

 

- A legacy 30X response = will still be needed for some user-agents

 =

Is that because you don'= t expect all user-agents (webbrowsers specifically) to support it? 

 =

- The response contains = HTML that should contain the login URL (or a meta refresh, etc), which isn'= t a very well structured way to get the URL

 =

I agree, it makes more s= ense that the url would be in a response header instead (like the 30x statu= s).

 

   It is not intended to
   encourage deployment of capti=
ve portals -- only to limit the damage
   caused by them.
 
Damage? Hm... 
 
In terms of non-browsers accessing apis, they should be using TL=
S! And perhaps not follow redirects or otherwise add some integrity to thei=
r api.
 
I agree, apis should use tls. Not every developer might agree th=
ough (a rest api containing weather predictions?).
But also, I don't think we can fix the world, fix every api/clie=
nt that is ever made. We can only at least identify mitm 30x scenarios are =
implemented, and try to regulate that scenario a bit more, which has been d=
one by introducing the 511.

 

 

Van: Captive-portals [captive-port= als-bounces@ietf.org] namens David Bird [dbird@google.com]
Verzonden: zondag 7 mei 2017 20:36
Aan: Erik Kline
CC: captive-portals@ietf= .org
Onderwerp: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status cod= e

I personally do not find= it very useful in public access networks, because:

- A legacy 30X response = will still be needed for some user-agents

- Returning 511 is still= a man-in-the-middle response (nothing changed there)

- The response contains = HTML that should contain the login URL (or a meta refresh, etc), which isn'= t a very well structured way to get the URL

- differences in how bro= wsers handle the 'error' and the associated user experience

 =

There are a couple other= oddities:

 = 

   Note that the 511 response SH=
OULD NOT contain a challenge or the
   login interface itself, becau=
se browsers would show the login
   interface as being associated=
 with the originally requested URL,
   which may cause confusion.
 
Why shouldn't it contain a challenge? (the reason given only rel=
ates to the 'login interface itself'). <=
o:p>
 
   It is not intended to
   encourage deployment of capti=
ve portals -- only to limit the damage
   caused by them.
 
Damage? Hm... 
 
In terms of non-browsers accessing apis, they should be using TL=
S! And perhaps not follow redirects or otherwise add some integrity to thei=
r api.

 =

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 1= :05 AM, Erik Kline <e= k@google.com> wrote:

I wanted to poll the gro= up's thoughts on the usefulness of the rfc6585#section-6 511 HTTP stat= us code.

 =

Has anybody tried to ser= ve 511s to clients, and if so what were the results?

 =

Might it be useful to se= rve an API endpoint (rather than the full-blown HTML UI)?=

 =

I'm trying to get a sens= e of whether this will be a useful tool to use in assembling a recommended = portal interaction.  If we determine it's not really going to be a wor= kable component, then that's useful to know too.


_______________________________________________
Captive-portals mailing list
Captive-porta= ls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals

 =

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987061F965wtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 11:34:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F2A128CFF for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:34:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TdcBgNgCH8LK for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF5441286B2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.101.164]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M35iN-1dfJEm3WxL-00swP4; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:34:24 +0200 To: Dave Dolson , Vincent van Dam , David Bird , Erik Kline Cc: "captive-portals@ietf.org" References: From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:34:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:+l7lNQDEJJZOmjjIktnFVgqTD901H/cNmpl27n23nDKdkPukFpE WKuuBnEG4CGFLUcpmYgQhQ5UeCo+EeloyNYuDQ601OcFyVK02XA8GBIWd30A8/UiPbPo22d FZHyv/ZFfVLod1zJej3dOmnaWjQAOmTiICVCZcqRZnS74iD1au8V3wM6iYqrAT+S3xAUdT/ apqU5Nbi7liBvu8tt2zNg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:ATFocv7W9H8=:Gbz6PeJk+W8KEBPEnXOlwE krvfbGXvXvVnJ4RlayMGjW7dPS864rh5VFzdlTfFAGdcUsc8pkBOsFvX3cp9u/vTGaG3DwAsD iU3/bRdOqNDcDJYXdHGM7BwLDyBybpIDwgjTeoxvxWs1P6nSM7xLqesE/tX/U4wFD/bBsF7bN bdwZ/HQoWk5jrWVHhWEN6j+kwbMXfOhtgfXR9Vt/PvmHuarXJ2kg9OkZo8FQNj2PWtSgY1KV3 tfUjYKOnTRDLtjMMhidJet3MTz8sfqWq4cUNeS0n8p/ej13AVEjZfqmrd2oj8ub6VZubokhJ1 1lkYGxFRCz4i+dx5oMSrlxjAgdxsi4v+cFxJylHr9/DHd+7rBFvp1AL8ZsHiVIBvhdqyFzGLp 0HM8TSGwUMkDiNgfQpoiP3pFFpnubSvCGaYzQkhLuG71ke/qce5ATcL4xxgV2BHeNaljDISrJ Jzh+7L1rfQJOx89W0JebwEEofnkpiIIiGgultX1rzdI9OLH7CaZ/ZYG78cb56ij7fuO0t7Bv7 W85Udayegj1lfHgGesWrLCTu3WG4GJqsesjowAAgVdk/FIWNYPMbsqOPI6PLp3M+Ar1oExn7l AA1vDWHRn84OZPEgEVBjWYvxyJrQAiB2Byc/9ywvW2jQQzMzLkMODZQZYx573Vy6dY70GoljM XZJDFgFI+ArGItvhwCpswGr6f5p9GEfoPLu04TSJi8jQcjp+NSzEN8DQ3DDuZW+3yX3sEbjH4 7q/puJAoBQuKhv+O1kab5LA0hr8mMIpK3bHsBakz/cl3KXSxAjesXfakH1k33uyQaJkygXJqf raO6K03 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:34:37 -0000 On 2017-06-23 20:11, Dave Dolson wrote: > It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser > requests—clearly an error instead of redirecting to something unexpected. > > Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome > than 307. > ... FWIW, why is *307* desirable in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to use 301/302 or even 303? Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Jun 23 11:53:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760E3128BB7 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WusGnH6K3Iq for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFDB7126BF7 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:53:33 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Julian Reschke , Vincent van Dam , David Bird , Erik Kline CC: "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code Thread-Index: AQHSxwjSIR4ujCHIEk2JPkRI6Cld3aHpdqUAgAAJPICASYFSsIAAUnSA//++cpA= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:53:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:53:36 -0000 Probably all of those codes are used, as well as 200 (with content). We could debate which is best, but that's a distraction, since we want port= als to stop pretending to be the real end-point. (FWIW, I think 301 is a bad idea, since later requests should try the real = URI again.) My hypothesis is that 511 is an acceptable thing to send an old (pre-RFC658= 5) device, when there is no expectation of causing user interaction. -Dave -----Original Message----- From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de]=20 Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:34 PM To: Dave Dolson; Vincent van Dam; David Bird; Erik Kline Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code On 2017-06-23 20:11, Dave Dolson wrote: > It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser=20 > requests-clearly an error instead of redirecting to something unexpected. >=20 > Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome=20 > than 307. > ... FWIW, why is *307* desirable in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to u= se 301/302 or even 303? Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Jun 23 11:57:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50AE128C83 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:57:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3LPhWcZxiDpR for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9540D128CFF for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:57:33 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "captive-portals@ietf.org" CC: David Bird Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" Thread-Index: AQHSxAspm2jwFnBWgkqjQKiot+mYpKHim5WQgAHxpYCAKua1AIAALgAAgAJV74CABl/BAIAI6m4AgAOfPACADjOEMA== Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:57:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3fad-kOXuU3H for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36D51120725 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.194.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:34:42 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:34:42 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: mariko kobayashi , "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] Requests for capport survey items Thread-Index: AQHSxBEOtOO2UiBTLkOO/b+sOldpMKIzJkaw Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 19:34:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9b53ef3f-7b0b-b6a4-bf35-19d4563b03fb@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <9b53ef3f-7b0b-b6a4-bf35-19d4563b03fb@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987061FB67wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Requests for capport survey items X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 19:34:46 -0000 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List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:07:21 -0000 Dear Martin Thomson, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. capport Session 1 (2:00:00) Tuesday, Afternoon Session II 1550-1750 Room Name: Karlin III size: 60 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Captive Portal Interaction Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Martin Thomson Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: httpbis v6ops quic 6man dnssd dhc tls Second Priority: taps intarea People who must be present: Adam Roach Martin Thomson Erik Kline David Bird Mark J Donnelly Kyle Larose Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Jun 23 17:37:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FB2129B2D for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:37:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cRV653RK1DLc for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803::53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55A1F1294AC for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kobayashimariko-no-MacBook-Pro.local (softbank126235042226.bbtec.net [126.235.42.226]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1254278AA5 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 09:37:08 +0900 (JST) To: captive-portals@ietf.org References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> From: mariko kobayashi Message-ID: <5e3abea2-804a-17e9-2dec-8333aa7349a3@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 09:37:08 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7C3338A37B1418B0DCE58170" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:37:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7C3338A37B1418B0DCE58170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (This is just information) I haven't seen Captive Portal which responses 307, and most of them reply 302 or 200. I only saw Meraki's one replies 307. Although I cannot guess how it can be implemented on the current Wi-Fi services, 511 will be helpful for such devices because we do not have a clear method to check the existence of Captive Portal. - Mariko On 2017/06/24 3:53, Dave Dolson wrote: > Probably all of those codes are used, as well as 200 (with content). > We could debate which is best, but that's a distraction, since we want portals to stop pretending to be the real end-point. > (FWIW, I think 301 is a bad idea, since later requests should try the real URI again.) > > My hypothesis is that 511 is an acceptable thing to send an old (pre-RFC6585) device, when there is no expectation of causing user interaction. > > -Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de] > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:34 PM > To: Dave Dolson; Vincent van Dam; David Bird; Erik Kline > Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code > > On 2017-06-23 20:11, Dave Dolson wrote: >> It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser >> requests-clearly an error instead of redirecting to something unexpected. >> >> Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome >> than 307. >> ... > FWIW, why is *307* desirable in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to use 301/302 or even 303? > > Best regards, Julian > > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals -- ------------------------------------------------------- 　Mariko Kobayashi(ao@sfc.wide.ad.jp) 　Keio Univ. SFC M1 Jun Murai Lab./WIDE/ao(ã‚ãŠ) --------------------------- --------------7C3338A37B1418B0DCE58170 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
(This is just information)
I haven't seen Captive Portal which responses 307, and most of them reply 302 or 200.
I only saw Meraki's one replies 307.

Although I cannot guess how it can be implemented on the current Wi-Fi services,
511 will be helpful for such devices because we do not have a clear method to check the existence of Captive Portal.

- Mariko
On 2017/06/24 3:53, Dave Dolson wrote:
Probably all of those codes are used, as well as 200 (with content).
We could debate which is best, but that's a distraction, since we want portals to stop pretending to be the real end-point.
(FWIW, I think 301 is a bad idea, since later requests should try the real URI again.)

My hypothesis is that 511 is an acceptable thing to send an old (pre-RFC6585) device, when there is no expectation of causing user interaction.

-Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de] 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:34 PM
To: Dave Dolson; Vincent van Dam; David Bird; Erik Kline
Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code

On 2017-06-23 20:11, Dave Dolson wrote:

It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser 
requests-clearly an error instead of redirecting to something unexpected.

Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome 
than 307.
...

FWIW, why is *307* desirable in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to use 301/302 or even 303?

Best regards, Julian

_______________________________________________
Captive-portals mailing list
Captive-portals@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
　Mariko Kobayashi(ao@sfc.wide.ad.jp)
　Keio Univ. SFC M1
    Jun Murai Lab./WIDE/ao(ã‚ãŠ)
---------------------------
--------------7C3338A37B1418B0DCE58170-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 18:32:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB53E129B0A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=dNWL5eWO; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Sfmwwadw Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tKUElQxLjwhH for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from new1-smtp.messagingengine.com (new1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.221]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27B541250B8 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBF7FB9; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:32:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=yKum5nBDeWwWzTJhN/ aQzNkLYNOqYCSYH+4YQsTSH2k=; b=dNWL5eWOUcuTu691yN9X1/CXqA9lvDA+HF 5pOueFLt2ospaAWjy0hJQ539UB8ZeukD0xLNBAtRe8hCq8wFFS1kzSbQEZ0+ZubP Ap3tMYHGlNgKQUKW5WA3faBqOy2SwqlzOZZrIPK7ca5lVS2part0u20yUrYSNhXC oXdDCrjupxaNvD9kj1Odug7ou+nJmvHeQFNfepOJHw1uS9MbHX3e+YsudhcU+B6c nrZDxlKkwZjglf5WZph3RimuS15WAKZiYtaKAuCVWTVKnuH2KBeSrzapWjRCAeiu nEU0v9pBnuzwvVZAqxbVPgqTZw+d5W0nFAH1Eu99co8Tr2jXpVjw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=yKum5nBDeWwWzTJhN/aQzNkLYNOqYCSYH+4YQsTSH2k=; b=Sfmwwadw 2VZZZK3dAdrBIi0HkldPy87+8XrnkdfmLYikhIlcZ0iwzo+NcUbec7HhG563iqgB M3U4+B6isusyB99khUllbvc0pNDYYapIkFu/JXIa0vyZi7qvp3rozkKw2V4+CwRn +4T3SF8RGWnbS+Nvh3tvEYRuHR48laADfv8MuEA59R0WSjKVZJRzdTKd27XkptWs 0HvqjE/ETFqd4UDDqssUaTn8GjZqMHCGDm3+uZupXO9rmAVpu/JEkeOIDjGkeJLN 7mrMUHYyNZuoy3QiRXhYMkH+SjGKAtuQT2GLQ4U8nciegMbz+tAZO+mYR43IsfPe JV5HGX4Qs7HJ2g== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: Gu/EE7CidzMxNYjFtCyFeYi4HZdxCEQQ+xCvbrvecbm0 1498267921 Received: from [192.168.1.18] (cpe-124-188-19-231.hdbq1.win.bigpond.net.au [124.188.19.231]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 628977E51B; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Mark Nottingham In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:31:57 +1000 Cc: "Julian F. Reschke" , Vincent van Dam , David Bird , Erik Kline , "captive-portals@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> To: Dave Dolson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 01:32:06 -0000 The idea behind 511 was that it's an explicit signal that the response = is NOT from the origin. The payload will be displayed by browsers that don't understand its = semantics, and you can use JS or http-equiv redirects if you want to = send that user somewhere else. The real value only comes when a) browsers understand its semantics, and = b) a payload format is designed to do something interesting with them. Cheers, > On 24 Jun 2017, at 4:53 am, Dave Dolson wrote: >=20 > Probably all of those codes are used, as well as 200 (with content). > We could debate which is best, but that's a distraction, since we want = portals to stop pretending to be the real end-point. > (FWIW, I think 301 is a bad idea, since later requests should try the = real URI again.) >=20 > My hypothesis is that 511 is an acceptable thing to send an old = (pre-RFC6585) device, when there is no expectation of causing user = interaction. >=20 > -Dave >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de]=20 > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:34 PM > To: Dave Dolson; Vincent van Dam; David Bird; Erik Kline > Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code >=20 > On 2017-06-23 20:11, Dave Dolson wrote: >> It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser=20 >> requests-clearly an error instead of redirecting to something = unexpected. >>=20 >> Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome=20= >> than 307. >> ... >=20 > FWIW, why is *307* desirable in the first place? Wouldn't it be better = to use 301/302 or even 303? >=20 > Best regards, Julian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Sun Jun 25 17:27:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98D81273B1 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2017 17:27:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, 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XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:27:00 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:27:00 -0400 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Dave Dolson , "captive-portals@ietf.org" CC: David Bird Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" Thread-Index: AQHSxAspm2jwFnBWgkqjQKiot+mYpKHim5WQgAHxpYCAKua1AIAALgAAgAJV74CABl/BAIAI6m4AgAOfPACADjOEMIADVqkA Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 00:27:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 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HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 05:11:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> From: Erik Kline Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:11:12 +0900 Message-ID: To: Dave Dolson Cc: "captive-portals@ietf.org" , David Bird Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="001a114a203cfa42040552eff72f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:11:38 -0000 --001a114a203cfa42040552eff72f Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114a203cef50be0552eff71a" --001a114a203cef50be0552eff71a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, Eric Vyncke (or another principal author) should have a presentation slot in Prague to re-introduce us all and restart some discussion. (Sorry for the long delay in responding.) On 24 June 2017 at 03:57, Dave Dolson wrote: > [resend with fewer recipients to avoid mailing list problems] > > > > To echo David=E2=80=99s request, > > > If the authors of the PvD concept (re-)present their I-D to the mailing > list, and stick around for discussion, that would be helpful. > > > > > > *From:* David Bird [mailto:dbird@google.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:36 AM > *To:* Erik Kline > *Cc:* Gunther Nitzsche; Mark Townsley; Heiko Folkerts; Martin Thomson; > captive-portals@ietf.org; Livingood, Jason; Herzig, Willi; Warren Kumari; > Dave Dolson > *Subject:* Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" > > > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Erik Kline wrote: > > I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511 is useful or not. There > seemed to be some suggestion it would help, and some that it wouldn't. > Perhaps one question we could ask is whether it's harmful? And if we agr= ee > it's not harmful, is it worth developing some recommendations for its use= ? > > > > > > In of itself, I don't believe it is harmful. However, if vendors use it a= s > a reason to continue to terminate TLS connection in order to deliver the > 511, then perhaps it is a bit harmful - or at least misleading. As the > world moves to TLS (and QUIC), I think the time for the 511 code has > already passed, to some degree. That, combined with the fact you may stil= l > have browsers not handling that return code properly, I don't see the val= ue > for any vendor or venue to implement this. > > > > > > As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don't think it would be > harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now). Is that something we > wish to progress? > > > > > > I will work on a new draft that is only the basics. The additional fields > could always be add in their own draft as extensions. > > > > > > Given that we're probably looking at a portal detection method based on > entirely new work, it seems to me we're free to look at new things like > utilizing the PVD detection scheme (DNS queries for "provisioning domain > names", followed by other interaction still TBD). Have the portal > implementors reviewed this and given consideration as to whether its > useful? (I think of the discovery of the portal and subsequent interacti= on > with it as 2 separate processes conducted, obviously, in serial.) > > > > > > I believe there are several talking points here, as the PvD method seems > to have several possible implementations. > > > > I think requiring Ipv6 to configure Ipv4 is weird (I believe that was one > proposed method to convey configuration) > > > > Several points I made in the thread "Arguments against any Capport API" > regarding a web service - detached from the NAS - controlling the > UE/station I think are relevant. > > > > If the authors of the PvD concept (re-)present their I-D to the mailing > list, and stick around for discussion, that would be helpful. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals > > > > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals > > --001a114a203cef50be0552eff71a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,

Eric Vyncke (or another principal= author) should have a presentation slot in Prague to re-introduce us all a= nd restart some discussion.

(Sorry for the long de= lay in responding.)

On 24 June 2017 at 03:57, Dave Dolson <<= a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" target=3D"_blank">ddolson@sandvine.c= om> wrote:

[resend with fewer recipi= ents to avoid mailing list problems]

=C2=A0

To echo David=E2=80=99s r= equest,

> If the author= s of the PvD concept (re-)present their I-D to the mailing list, and stick = around for discussion, that would be helpful.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: David Bi= rd [mailto:dbird@goog= le.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:36 AM
To: Erik Kline
Cc: Gunther Nitzsche; Mark Townsley; Heiko Folkerts; Martin Thomson;= captive-port= als@ietf.org; Livingood, Jason; Herzig, Willi; Warren Kumari; Dave Dols= on
Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade = Captive Portal"

=C2=A0

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote= :

I'm not sure we have enough input on whether 511= is useful or not.=C2=A0 There seemed to be some suggestion it would help, = and some that it wouldn't.=C2=A0 Perhaps one question we could ask is w= hether it's harmful?=C2=A0 And if we agree it's not harmful, is it worth developing some recommendations for its use?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In of itself, I don't believe it is harmful. How= ever, if vendors use it as a reason to continue to terminate TLS connection= in order to deliver the 511, then perhaps it is a bit harmful - or at leas= t misleading. As the world moves to TLS (and QUIC), I think the time for the 511 code has already passed, to some = degree. That, combined with the fact you may still have browsers not handli= ng that return code properly, I don't see the value for any vendor or v= enue to implement this.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

As for the ICMP unreachable option, I certainly don&= #39;t think it would be harmful (with the extra URL bits removed for now).= =C2=A0 Is that something we wish to progress?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I will work on a new draft that is only the basics. = The additional fields could always be add in their own draft as extensions.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Given that we're probably looking at a portal de= tection method based on entirely new work, it seems to me we're free to= look at new things like utilizing the PVD detection scheme (DNS queries fo= r "provisioning domain names", followed by other interaction still TBD).=C2=A0 Have the portal implementors reviewed = this and given consideration as to whether its useful? =C2=A0(I think of th= e discovery of the portal and subsequent interaction with it as 2 separate = processes conducted, obviously, in serial.)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I believe there are several talking points here, as = the PvD method seems to have several possible implementations.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

I think requiring Ipv6 to configure Ipv4 is weird (I= believe that was one proposed method to convey configuration)

=C2=A0

Several points I made in the thread "Arguments = against any Capport API" regarding a web service - detached from the N= AS - controlling the UE/station I think are relevant.

=C2=A0

If the authors of the PvD concept (re-)present their= I-D to the mailing list, and stick around for discussion, that would be he= lpful.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thoughts?


_______________________________________________
Captive-portals mailing list
Captive-porta= ls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals<= /u>

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Captive-portals mailing list
Captive-portals@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/capt= ive-portals


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captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC16129B64 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:56:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id spmApVBHGVUk for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA092129B5D for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com (192.168.196.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 10:56:28 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 10:56:28 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Mark Nottingham CC: "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code Thread-Index: AQHSxwjSIR4ujCHIEk2JPkRI6Cld3aHpdqUAgAAJPICASYFSsIAAUnSA//++cpCAALY5gIAFT3VA Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:56:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:56:32 -0000 Mark, thanks for the info about 511. But to the working group, I think this discussion about HTTP status codes i= s a distraction. I think the ICMP approach is a superior solution that doesn't require modif= ication of transport-layer data. Redirection of clear-text HTTP is an existing practice. It will continue fo= r some time; but there is no need to tweak it, since tweaks would not be recognized by e= xisting software anyhow... Redirection of encrypted HTTP should be discouraged. The ICMP notification allows HTTPS traffic (and all other IPv4/6 traffic) t= o be notified of the captive network. -Dave -----Original Message----- From: Mark Nottingham [mailto:mnot@mnot.net]=20 Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 9:32 PM To: Dave Dolson Cc: Julian F. Reschke; Vincent van Dam; David Bird; Erik Kline; captive-por= tals@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code The idea behind 511 was that it's an explicit signal that the response is N= OT from the origin. The payload will be displayed by browsers that don't understand its semanti= cs, and you can use JS or http-equiv redirects if you want to send that use= r somewhere else. The real value only comes when a) browsers understand its semantics, and b)= a payload format is designed to do something interesting with them. Cheers, > On 24 Jun 2017, at 4:53 am, Dave Dolson wrote: >=20 > Probably all of those codes are used, as well as 200 (with content). > We could debate which is best, but that's a distraction, since we want po= rtals to stop pretending to be the real end-point. > (FWIW, I think 301 is a bad idea, since later requests should try the rea= l URI again.) >=20 > My hypothesis is that 511 is an acceptable thing to send an old (pre-RFC6= 585) device, when there is no expectation of causing user interaction. >=20 > -Dave >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Reschke [mailto:julian.reschke@gmx.de]=20 > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:34 PM > To: Dave Dolson; Vincent van Dam; David Bird; Erik Kline > Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code >=20 > On 2017-06-23 20:11, Dave Dolson wrote: >> It seems 511 is probably better than 30x for non-browser=20 >> requests-clearly an error instead of redirecting to something unexpected= . >>=20 >> Is 511 likely to be OK for old IoT devices? Probably a better outcome=20 >> than 307. >> ... >=20 > FWIW, why is *307* desirable in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to= use 301/302 or even 303? >=20 > Best regards, Julian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Captive-portals mailing list > Captive-portals@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Tue Jun 27 08:55:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86C2129B9B for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 08:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q7EdiMxDmGW1 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 08:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E2AB129BA1 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 08:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] ([93.217.102.13]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LkxLZ-1e0aV12oz7-00ajQb; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:55:34 +0200 To: Dave Dolson , Mark Nottingham Cc: "captive-portals@ietf.org" References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:55:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Jo8R+XPW3AEW5ZMHWkzKWIAXKv7IggqmodQFiATKR/RNvXOFK1J +7SnG7Tw6voFoxKDdsmsNjY56Di5Qmpuzcv7+Zkgt2AmOj+GDr7Pwf7uDUBPxsghl8ze3q5 B6EiEi5094lZ03B+lwDvaNnJztWo4ZDADCi/A9Dv8XsCxk4tgAaC0Txi+maXekdtWlbglbW vkv2Qc45cs0nIg9AVl97w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:2+11lXsplB4=:hotfTDG5DBz7Uxy6k7fBjz yJgfKDD7aEazXqok8+mn/xt40K5JhYPaa2T/f6fk7xj//SK8R0u869r8tW8797/DjSCiv780L HnIA7H1l2ciOP+fyAsmm5fXRoztOb1t80IhAa9EfyfamoRdOqE0vhqnqPHw4FuppUUlkq3DEa YBi7l6uZaBAWGsKYxQzN+L7w6Vfl7HgMXt94I7s1t9Pz1AzBZ/i7td95tEpSOwwqFkw/Y/a8Q M+4/UTeIFCP5gDHILRXLxJlcqG0Ax5me93AIMRSkoDKPva2vb7xChwZA6401IO7jeu5g073J+ m3xzX0zt3QCgyrHHLj+U0BcHVJVKjrbP0o5eQRsXNf/OS7ZexqoCEsHyP5QTrnnXiwmPNGdnY 3Wz8aaHmelnsJlwbaCboPy/XrJexkKZttnVKe76vnguMqBGj/HJCzju6lSqabjYDL5mFUCRWf ejDN665kKGf5BpH3CF8orZkt5q0pQZQI5EX3WwAkQi+zGN4NoqrhcfLGC31G5eBbbpMT2VCFD h8u45XgO3d2ElneGaZtZrkeh+vIMGklsA2ziCyyIixlCII2T7septE3z0zB/1UZ0vP/JhuSFe owmd6ONi43I4MbYOyHKUU13nigER2dR7vwDnh/E7I3e1v0xwL/qU/P+sDdX9hUCWUxYrnPux+ YcKx6ZvQouHMzpo/SGOEbEkNmsJhvdQ+Ri4nCHvp4Aksy8HS0n8I5dE4aZ8NorUoTsud+b1yQ oA39vtNLNICXEa6TiOZAnb8USFrMkO8kOswIJBP2a0fyMbCsJlMDt1BFod+lmVkR/UfDZIT+n IzY6Gkl Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:55:43 -0000 On 2017-06-27 16:56, Dave Dolson wrote: > Mark, thanks for the info about 511. > > But to the working group, I think this discussion about HTTP status codes is a distraction. > > I think the ICMP approach is a superior solution that doesn't require modification of transport-layer data. > > Redirection of clear-text HTTP is an existing practice. It will continue for some time; Yes. > but there is no need to tweak it, since tweaks would not be recognized by existing software anyhow... Existing software == browsers? They should be totally OK with 511. Do you have evidence to the contrary? > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jun 27 09:12:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54454129B4D for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PPU2WGWWnK8L for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x232.google.com (mail-it0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54B2A129ABD for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x232.google.com with SMTP id m84so18296262ita.0 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cLv3OSZGy5LdaYM1yrMBIQd3953QrrsuM64FqKgFS9E=; b=s/D25+sLZmC+8t/qzxHy09p+GD+fvE75oWaqUFGY7vGx1JzqAnMXwYa5gBM8JIuseh ikRg3uqjQrapTdoc4puvAOSPNeekJWaQlPkY6Bwq8v33N6MFjTMDzNOnXkvPSJrhex4e LgHpymPD0FCqDvbdiXdkHTj1D3sp7gbIVKAQFWHpe453phaPXqLLd43jvNaTdvlr3lut CR75Clu68OBOXo6ZnhLPV5xuC1nVuPyVRMc3+kToFqWMqQyiZWE2wlJFTI9FquEHhK3I T6FtkKmHv3GfET+kCs5Xl7yPK2YXN0aHDoaXVXQSNImGu6Jul9goPIkkGEgA771ertGm 3+oQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cLv3OSZGy5LdaYM1yrMBIQd3953QrrsuM64FqKgFS9E=; b=pZRuMK5QgTjpLbJX4AgzTQ4afKEB47HVHJUAwa2OV9lxbHPJ9vSzI6XAmI8VBJgmzS jQQr804R9UoRHPWlqYmhFi+FQaXKraADEEJb86MgkRDPfeG9CGuW6i+7LvK4H34x2Gfd /HZyk43lN2a6RyjA8aeAngPXyN5wEjnYTcBU6P+63VfqC4i1EIAEeoLGrdLK0ex8kpiI EOCaefpHSeSCj0AK/paE5K+D9mkTSd2/1yO9lWD2UK+ErAN4mAwfhr8qFrSiNxh84DDU znQOiAsdeKLZgc+YF0bg3zmV01tCmwRCYtqmaHMd8ll2LQjJm1EpnBaNcNUFprUXssj9 dncw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwrO8C0DacHfr57NRTNExmDMaRGwK/OM8N+U4qJCRybqX2iJuWv ki/z5XAGSwICu6FRg1WKSqYq7mRZA2Fk X-Received: by 10.36.73.82 with SMTP id z79mr3978292ita.20.1498579941490; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.14.144 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> From: David Bird Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:12:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: Dave Dolson , Mark Nottingham , "captive-portals@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c147a61505330552f355fd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:12:24 -0000 --001a11c147a61505330552f355fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-06-27 16:56, Dave Dolson wrote: > >> Mark, thanks for the info about 511. >> >> But to the working group, I think this discussion about HTTP status codes >> is a distraction. >> >> I think the ICMP approach is a superior solution that doesn't require >> modification of transport-layer data. >> >> Redirection of clear-text HTTP is an existing practice. It will continue >> for some time; >> > > Yes. > > but there is no need to tweak it, since tweaks would not be recognized by >> existing software anyhow... >> > > Existing software == browsers? They should be totally OK with 511. Do you > have evidence to the contrary? > > ... >> > > It would be interesting to have a review of browsers and how they handle 511. Most browsers are probably "OK" with 511, but how about the venue? That would depend on if the user experience is broken, or not as desirable. A venue/operator could just use javascript to redirect (if the sandboxed browser environment allows it) as suggested, but assuming the browser didn't otherwise 'break' the UX, how is that different from a 30X redirect? Sure, some headless Apps making API calls might be 'broken' with unexpected results, but do we care? Those developers should use TLS, not follow redirects, and write robust software with exception handling.. --001a11c147a61505330552f355fd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Jun 27, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
On = 2017-06-27 16:56, Dave Dolson wrote:
Mark, thanks for the info about 511.

But to the working group, I think this discussion about HTTP status codes i= s a distraction.

I think the ICMP approach is a superior solution that doesn't require m= odification of transport-layer data.

Redirection of clear-text HTTP is an existing practice. It will continue fo= r some time;

 Yes.

but there is no need to tweak it, since tweaks would not be recognized by e= xisting software anyhow...

 Existing software =3D=3D browsers? They should be totally OK with 511. Do y= ou have evidence to the contrary?

...



It would be interesting to have a= review of browsers and how they handle 511. Most browsers are probably &qu= ot;OK" with 511, but how about the venue? That would depend on if the = user experience is broken, or not as desirable. A venue/operator could just= use javascript to redirect (if the sandboxed browser environment allows it= ) as suggested, but assuming the browser didn't otherwise 'break= 9; the UX, how is that different from a 30X redirect? Sure, some headless A= pps making API calls might be 'broken' with unexpected results, but= do we care? Those developers should use TLS, not follow redirects, and wri= te robust software with exception handling..
=C2=A0
--001a11c147a61505330552f355fd-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 09:18:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D450F129B9C for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:18:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aWQTaswvxBOs for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95930129B4D for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:18:42 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Julian Reschke , Mark Nottingham CC: "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code Thread-Index: AQHSxwjSIR4ujCHIEk2JPkRI6Cld3aHpdqUAgAAJPICASYFSsIAAUnSA//++cpCAALY5gIAFT3VAgABY04D//8NqTw== Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:18:42 +0000 Message-ID: <20170627161841.5161041.96743.20299@sandvine.com> References: <6c04ed2c-9d26-eb9d-b4e3-5205845d0fa4@gmx.de> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:18:46 -0000 Regardless of how 511 is handled, I think it is orthogonal to the work at h= and. It only helps with the clear-text http, which I think operators would = be resistant to change. David Dolson Sandvine Original Message From: Julian Reschke Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:55 AM To: Dave Dolson; Mark Nottingham Cc: captive-portals@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] practicality of 511 HTTP status code On 2017-06-27 16:56, Dave Dolson wrote: > Mark, thanks for the info about 511. > > But to the working group, I think this discussion about HTTP status codes= is a distraction. > > I think the ICMP approach is a superior solution that doesn't require mod= ification of transport-layer data. > > Redirection of clear-text HTTP is an existing practice. It will continue = for some time; Yes. > but there is no need to tweak it, since tweaks would not be recognized by= existing software anyhow... Existing software =3D=3D browsers? They should be totally OK with 511. Do you have evidence to the contrary? > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jun 27 12:46:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A56C1270A7 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:46:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlolSbxeJEtP for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4138212EB13 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:46:17 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" , "captive-portals@ietf.org" CC: David Bird Thread-Topic: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" Thread-Index: AQHSxAspm2jwFnBWgkqjQKiot+mYpKHim5WQgAHxpYCAKua1AIAALgAAgAJV74CABl/BAIAI6m4AgAOfPACADjOEMIADVqkAgAMFLHA= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:46:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201705031442.50683.heiko.folkerts@bsi.bund.de> <1BB90528-B35F-43F0-AF18-0215DC735FF0@cable.comcast.com> <754719c5-c74c-fbdc-405e-b8c91478c0a5@netcologne.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98706252AAwtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] Use Case: "Carrier Grade Captive Portal" X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:46:24 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98706252AAwtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RXJpYywNCkRvIEkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBjb3JyZWN0bHkgZnJvbSBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYu b3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtYnJ1bmVhdS1pbnRhcmVhLXByb3Zpc2lvbmluZy1kb21haW5zLTAwI3Nl Y3Rpb24tNS41DQp0aGF0IHRoZSBpbnRlbnRpb24gaXMgZm9yIHRoZSBKU09OIGtleSDigJxjYXB0 aXZlUG9ydGFs4oCdIHRvIGluZGljYXRlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHNwZWNpZmllZCBVUkwgaXMgdG8gYmUg dmlzaXRlZCBieSB0aGUgYnJvd3NlciB0byBuYXZpZ2F0ZSB0aGUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvciBl 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14.03.0319.002; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 13:48:26 -0400 From: Kyle Larose To: "captive-portals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-larose-capport-architecture-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHS8ciLD+Y2VebRQUiIE6/COAetaaI9rfIw Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 17:48:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149884467636.4678.13576089038798802391.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149884467636.4678.13576089038798802391.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.51] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Captive-portals] FW: New Version Notification for draft-larose-capport-architecture-01.txt X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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