Subject: [Capwap] Default mode for logical groups

From: "Saravanan Govindan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:28:24 +0800

Pat,

Issue: 

Assign a default mode for configuring logical groups
(draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups. 

My recommendation:

Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config message
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map wired-segment
VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and most common
case for logical groups. 

Then include description of logical group configuration in BSSID to WLAN
ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4). 

Saravanan

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From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:57:25 -0800

Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe where I
am getting confused is what we believe is missing. 
 
I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is occuring, then
no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on the AC. Further,
the protocol already has a provision to specify the VLAN to associate
with a given user when Local MAC is used.

Pat Calhoun
CTO, Wireless Networking Business Unit
Cisco Systems

________________________________

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:[email-masked]] 
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:28 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); [email-masked]
	Subject: Default mode for logical groups

	Pat,

	Issue: 

	 

	My recommendation:

	Then include description of logical group configuration in BSSID
to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4). 

	Saravanan

---

From: "Saravanan Govindan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:16:31 +0800

Pat,

I see your point. 

My concern is with the operation of the consistent operation of the
protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical group
- or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring local-MAC
and split-MAC WTPs similar. 

I think the current protocol already does what we are talking about in
some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical group configuration
works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs.

Do you think this is the case?

Saravanan 

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:57 AM
To: Saravanan Govindan; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

Pat Calhoun

	From: Saravanan Govindan

	Pat,

	Issue: 

	 

	My recommendation:

	
	Saravanan

---

From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:18:17 -0800

I think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the bridging
function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN. However,
pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the AC would be
pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk. Unfortunately, by
relocating the bridging function, there is no way to make this common :(

Pat Calhoun

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:[email-masked]] 
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:17 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); [email-masked]
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	Pat,

	I see your point. 

	My concern is with the operation of the consistent operation of
the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that each logical
group - or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes configuring
local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar. 

	I think the current protocol already does what we are talking
about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical group
configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs.

	Saravanan 

	

	Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I believe
where I am getting confused is what we believe is missing. 

	I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling is
occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on
the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to specify the
VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is used.

	Pat Calhoun

		From: Saravanan Govindan

		Pat,

		Issue: 

		 

		My recommendation:

		Then include description of logical group configuration
in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section
11.4). 

		Saravanan

---

From: "Saravanan Govindan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:05:17 +0800

Hi Pat,

My point here is not with the location of the bridging function, rather
the way the protocol manages logical groups in general. 

It is a need arising from two objectives (draft-ietf-objectives-04) -
Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and Resource Control Objective (5.1.7).
So the need is to provide logical subsets - with the ability to manage
resources on both wireless segment and the wired segment. I see this as
requiring a type of mapping between the wired segment, say VLAN, and
wireless segment, say BSSID. 

So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs to be able to
configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID. 

I think this can be provided by including a configuration element for
the WTP, which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical groups being
configured in the WLAN system. 

I'm open to any other ways of realizing these two objectives. 

Saravanan

 

From: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou) [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:18 AM
To: Saravanan Govindan; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

Pat Calhoun

	From: Saravanan Govindan

	Pat,

	I see your point. 

	
	Saravanan 

	

	Pat Calhoun

		From: Saravanan Govindan

		Pat,

		Issue: 

		 

		My recommendation:

		
		Saravanan

---

From: "Saravanan Govindan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:41:18 +0800

Hi Sujay,

VLAN + BSSID is a common way for realizing logical groups due to its
relative ease in implementation. 

I realize there are cases where using VLAN information may not be
directly required at a WTP. However, for the protocol to work
consistently for local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs, I believe there is a need
for this. 

Saravanan

 

From: sujay [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:03 PM
To: Saravanan Govindan; 'Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)'
Subject: RE: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups

Hi Saravanan,

Is talking of a WLAN logical group comprising

of VLAN + BSSID always true?

The VLAN mapping to is from  Mobile MAC address<-->VLAN Name

As in the 'Add Mobile' message.

and not from WLANID <--> VLAN ID

However; as a measure of resource control and uniformity its a nice idea

in having the VLAN info on the WTP whether it is of use there or not.

Does it make sense to make the VLAN name as a mandotory element in 

the Add mobile message??

Regds,

Sujay

 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:[email-masked]] 
	Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:35 AM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); [email-masked]
	Subject: [Capwap] RE: Default mode for logical groups

	Hi Pat,

	My point here is not with the location of the bridging function,
rather the way the protocol manages logical groups in general. 

	It is a need arising from two objectives
(draft-ietf-objectives-04) - Logical Groups (Section 5.1.1) and Resource
Control Objective (5.1.7). So the need is to provide logical subsets -
with the ability to manage resources on both wireless segment and the
wired segment. I see this as requiring a type of mapping between the
wired segment, say VLAN, and wireless segment, say BSSID. 

	So even in the case of an AC doing bridging, it needs to be able
to configure its WTPs so that the WTPs can map between the right wired
segment VLAN and right wireless segment BSSID. 
	
	I think this can be provided by including a configuration
element for the WTP, which maps VLAN to BSSID for each of the logical
groups being configured in the WLAN system. 

	Saravanan

	 

	I think the crux of the problem is that in Local MAC the
bridging function is provided by the WTP, and therefore it needs a VLAN.
However, pushing this to a WTP when bridging is performed in the AC
would be pointless since the WTP is never connected to a trunk.
Unfortunately, by relocating the bridging function, there is no way to
make this common :(

	Pat Calhoun

		From: Saravanan Govindan

		Pat,

		I see your point. 

		My concern is with the operation of the consistent
operation of the protocol. So if we were to design in such a way that
each logical group - or WLAN  - is a VLAN + a BSSID, then it makes
configuring local-MAC and split-MAC WTPs similar. 

		I think the current protocol already does what we are
talking about in some form. It would be nice to bring out how logical
group configuration works is a common way for local-MAC and split-MAC
WTPs.

		Saravanan 

		

		Thanks for the e-mail. I recall this conversation, but I
believe where I am getting confused is what we believe is missing. 

		I believe we can agree that if *any* form of tunneling
is occuring, then no mapping is required since VLANs will be enforced on
the AC. Further, the protocol already has a provision to specify the
VLAN to associate with a given user when Local MAC is used.

		Pat Calhoun

			From: Saravanan Govindan

			Pat,

			Issue: 

			Assign a default mode for configuring logical
groups (draft-ietf-capwap-objectives-04.txt) Section 5.1.1 and
(draft-ietf-eval-00.txt) Section 6.1 across wired and wireless segments.
This makes for consistent configuration and management across logical
groups. 

			My recommendation:

			Introduce a message element in the WLAN Config
message (draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) Section 11.8.2 to map
wired-segment VLANs to wireless-segment BSSIDs. This is the simplest and
most common case for logical groups. 

			Then include description of logical group
configuration in BSSID to WLAN ID Mapping
(draft-ohara-capwap-lwapp-03.txt) in Section 11.4). 

			Saravanan

---

From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:25:49 -0800

Issue 41 created although there is no agreement to this change at this
time.

Pat Calhoun

	From: Saravanan Govindan

	Pat,

	Issue: 

	 

	My recommendation:

	
	Saravanan

---

From: "Pat Calhoun (pacalhou)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:30:46 -0800

So you've confused me. Typically, a CAPWAP enabled WTP would not be
connected to a trunk, but would instead be treated as a normal host on
an Ethernet network. Therefore the edge port would be configured to a
specific VLAN. All CAPWAP traffic would be sent on a single VLAN. What
you are implying is that some CAPWAP traffic is sent on one VLAN, while
some on a different VLAN, meaning that the WTP has multiple IP
addresses.

Pat Calhoun

	From: Saravanan Govindan
[mailto:[email-masked]] 
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:05 PM
	To: Pat Calhoun (pacalhou); [email-masked]
	Subject: RE: Default mode for logical groups

	Hi Pat,

	

	Saravanan

	 

	Pat Calhoun

		From: Saravanan Govindan

		Pat,

		I see your point. 

		
		Saravanan 

		

		Pat Calhoun

			From: Saravanan Govindan

			Pat,

			Issue: 

			 

			My recommendation:

			
			Saravanan