Subject: Re: [Cfrg] CFRG Review Panel

From: "Paterson, Kenny" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:16:31 +0000

Dear CFRG,

We are delighted to announce the initial membership of the CFRG review
panel. We had many strong applications, and were able to select a balanced
and experienced group of 7 panellists. Thanks to everyone who put
themselves forward or nominated candidates.

Here's the panel:

Scott Fluhrer
Pierre-Alain Fouque

Russ Housley
Tibor Jager
Yaron Sheffer
Stanislav Smyshlyaev
Bjoern Tackmann

The members will serve for an initial period of 2 years. We are looking
forward to working with them!

Best wishes,

Alexey and Kenny  
CFRG chairs

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From: "Salz, Rich" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 20:28:47 +0000

With no insult to any of the appointed members, it's disappointing that it's all guys.

--  
Senior Architect, Akamai Technologies
Member, OpenSSL Dev Team
IM: [email-masked] Twitter: RichSalz

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From: "denis bider \(Bitvise\)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:04:04 -0600

Rich,

if it is the case that both genders – as well as inter-gendered persons – are to be considered equal, then it should not matter what gender anyone is. That is – with no insult – unless you were intending to get laid?

I hope we can keep the Hillary Clinton agenda out of this forum, and accept that this is not a place where we can address gender disparities that arose 20 years ago, when people our age chose their subjects of interest. While it would likely be desirable to bridge this gender gap, evidence shows that this is best done in early education.

It is perverse to manufacture the appearance of a non-existent diversity by attempting to discriminate, at this very late point in the process, against men.

First, we ought to make sure that we know that there is really a problem, and that it’s not only being emphasized because it’s important that a female Clinton is elected President. Secondly, the focus should be on where the problem actually happens: when people decide and commit to their life choices in the education system.

Any attempt to re-create an impression of diversity at this late point is political, and is for show.

Best regards,

denis bider

From: Salz, Rich 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 14:28
To: Paterson, Kenny ; [email-masked] 
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] CFRG Review Panel

_______________________________________________
Cfrg mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg

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From: Kyle Rose <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 20:27:08 -0400

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:04 PM, denis bider (Bitvise) <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> It is perverse to manufacture the appearance of a non-existent diversity
> by attempting to discriminate, at this very late point in the process,
> against men.
>

Leaving aside the flamebait and politics...

I would like to think (and I strongly suspect!) that the process for
selection of this crew made no undue consideration for gender (or race,
ethnicity, etc.), and that selection was entirely with regard to merit,
within the constraint of self-selection. I don't think Rich was saying
otherwise: I read his lament as one of disappointment at the outcome, not
disappointment in the particular process. In other words: I think you read
too much into it.

Frankly, I agree with his oft-stated wider point that it's a disappointment
that there aren't more women (or people of color, or ...) involved in IETF:
in my case, not because I think there's a particular technical benefit to
having gender or ethnic diversity, but because it's a sign of a wider
social inequity that we, as leaders in a worldwide community, have a moral
responsibility to help address.

Kyle

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From: Andy Lutomirski <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:19:51 -0700

> Rich,

Denis, while I can't find specific rules of conduct for this list,
your email is surely inappropriate here.  Please remain civil, treat
others with respect, and stay on topic.  The presidential race is not
on topic.

--Andy

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From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 17:41:18 +0100

> On 14 Oct 2016, at 21:28, Salz, Rich <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

It is fair to say that chairs are disappointed not to receive any nominations for women or for Asian participants.

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From: "Okubo, Tomofumi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2016 19:17:31 +0000

Okay, I will try next time.
Tomofumi