Subject: [Ietf-not43] part way through the matrix

From: edlewis at arin.net (Edward Lewis)
Date: Fri Jun 27 10:35:48 2003

Unfortunately, today is my next to last day in the office before 
Vienna (yeah, already).  So I've trying to rush through the matrix 
not at a promising rate.

Talking to Andy a few days ago about CRISP in a context outside the 
matrix (I'm trying to do the review relying only on the docs as much 
as a possible), he mentioned that CRISP is defining a lookup protocol 
and not a search protocol.  I.e., using the address realm (the 
context we were talking about), if I ask for a 32 bit IP address, I 
would have expected to get the hierarchy of records showing the 
allocation/assignments of the address and not just *a* particular 
record corresponding to that address.  (I'm trying to illustrate the 
difference between a search and a lookup, not a desired scenario, 
etc.)

I don't see that this distinction is clearly described in the 
documents (requirements or proposal).  Once Andy explained that, it 
made a lot of things make more sense.

Given that, returning to the matrix, there is a lot of verbiage about 
"search" as in 3.2.2.1 of the requirements.  I can understand that if 
I want to look up a book in a library collection, I need to search 
the shelves for the location assigned it.  But I found the words 
there confusing (until talking with Andy).

On another topic, I can't figure out one requirement - like, what it 
means.  It's the one on a query distribution mechanism.  (3.1.11.1 in 
the requirements.)  What's that?  TCP?  The accompanying text in the 
requirements isn't very specific.

PS - Sorry if these comments are elsewhere and recently, I'm really 
trying to base this on the documents (or make the questions public).

PPS - And Andy, if you are working all weekend to get the new version 
out anyway, (;)), can you include some client-server message examples 
(in dreg)?
-- 
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Edward Lewis                                            +1-703-227-9854
ARIN Research Engineer

...as graceful as a blindfolded bull in a china shop...

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From: anewton at ecotroph.net (Andrew Newton)
Date: Fri Jun 27 11:50:05 2003

Edward Lewis wrote:
> matrix (I'm trying to do the review relying only on the docs as much as 
> a possible), he mentioned that CRISP is defining a lookup protocol and 
> not a search protocol.  

Uh?  I said that?  I don't think the CRISP working group has made this 
distinction in that its output will be a lookup protocol vs. a search 
protocol.

In my mind (which is a very messy place), it is an access protocol 
consisting of well defined searches and lookups, with a distinction 
being given between a search and a lookup.  And a lookup being a 
distinct value query into a single index.  Anything more, such as 
multiple hits to a single index, non-distinct values (substrings, 
etc...), hits across multiple indexes, is a search.

> I don't see that this distinction is clearly described in the documents 
> (requirements or proposal).  Once Andy explained that, it made a lot of 
> things make more sense.

Well, you might be right about the requirements doc.  IRIS does divide 
the 'searches' from the things can be done with 'lookupEntity'.

> "search" as in 3.2.2.1 of the requirements.  I can understand that if I 
> want to look up a book in a library collection, I need to search the 
> shelves for the location assigned it.  But I found the words there 
> confusing (until talking with Andy).

Section 3.2.1.1 says lookup.  Section 3.2.2.1 says search.

> requirements isn't very specific.

Higher up the stack.  Something like CIP.

> out anyway, (;)), can you include some client-server message examples 

Other than Appendix A?  Is there something you want illustrated in 
better detail?

-andy