Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:03:16 -0800

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking of the IETF.

        Title           : Deterministic Networking Use Cases
        Authors         : Ethan Grossman
                          Craig Gunther
                          Pascal Thubert
                          Patrick Wetterwald
                          Jean Raymond
                          Jouni Korhonen
                          Yu Kaneko
                          Subir Das
                          Yiyong Zha
                          Balázs Varga
                          János Farkas
                          Franz-Josef Goetz
                          Juergen Schmitt
	Filename        : draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt
	Pages           : 84
	Date            : 2016-02-10

Abstract:
   This draft documents requirements in several diverse industries to
   establish multi-hop paths for characterized flows with deterministic
   properties.  In this context deterministic implies that streams can
   be established which provide guaranteed bandwidth and latency which
   can be established from either a Layer 2 or Layer 3 (IP) interface,
   and which can co-exist on an IP network with best-effort traffic.

   Additional requirements include optional redundant paths, very high
   reliability paths, time synchronization, and clock distribution.
   Industries considered include wireless for industrial applications,
   professional audio, electrical utilities, building automation
   systems, radio/mobile access networks, automotive, and gaming.

   For each case, this document will identify the application, identify
   representative solutions used today, and what new uses an IETF DetNet
   solution may enable.

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

---

From: "Grossman, Ethan A." <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:16:35 +0000

Oh dear, I hadn't noticed that. I will see what happened and fix them. 
Ethan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jouni Korhonen [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 1:08 PM
To: Grossman, Ethan A.
Subject: Fwd: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt

Ethan,

Seems that this update broke a number of figures :(

- Jouni

-------- Välitetty viesti / Fwd.Msg --------
Aihe: 	[Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt
Päiväys: 	Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:03:16 -0800
Lähettäjä: 	[email-masked]
Vastaanottaja: 	[email-masked]
CC: 	[email-masked]

Abstract:

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet

---

From: "Grossman, Ethan A." <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:43:27 +0000

OK what happened was that the artwork in the BAS section did not include the <![CDATA[ tag, which protects artwork from being auto-reformatted. I added the tags and now the artwork stays put properly. I will include this fix in draft 03 which I will send out toward the end of today. Thanks again for catching that, Jouni. 
Ethan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jouni Korhonen [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 1:08 PM
To: Grossman, Ethan A.
Subject: Fwd: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt

Ethan,

- Jouni

-------- Välitetty viesti / Fwd.Msg --------
Aihe: 	[Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt
Päiväys: 	Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:03:16 -0800
Lähettäjä: 	[email-masked]
Vastaanottaja: 	[email-masked]
CC: 	[email-masked]

Abstract:

---

From: Matt Mora <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:09:40 -0800

Sorry, I’ve been lurking up until now. I read the first part of the draft and got caught up on the punctuation for the “however”’s in the front section which is different in later sections. It should probably be consistent throughout the document.

In some areas I had to stop and re-read the very long sentences to make sure I got the meaning. Here is an example:

  The 15ms latency bound is made even more challenging because it is
  often the case in network based music production with live electric
  instruments that multiple stages of signal processing are used,
  connected in series (i.e.  from one to the other for example from
  guitar through a series of digital effects processors) in which case
  the latencies add, so the latencies of each individual stage must all
  together remain less than 15ms.

Seems like it could be changed to be more readable. Also, the introductory text seems fairly informal, which may be the intent, but it is not reading like a standard (maybe on purpose?).

Anyway, that’s my 0.02 with the first pass through the document.

Thanks,
Matt 

> On Feb 10, 2016, at 1:03 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> 
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:24:29 +0100

Le 11/02/2016 01:09, Matt Mora a écrit :
>
> Sorry, I’ve been lurking up until now. I read the first part of the
> draft and got caught up on the punctuation for the “however”’s in the
> front section which is different in later sections. It should
> probably be consistent throughout the document.
>
> In some areas I had to stop and re-read the very long sentences to
> make sure I got the meaning. Here is an example:
>
> the latencies add, so the latencies of each individual stage must
> all together remain less than 15ms.
>
> Seems like it could be changed to be more readable. Also, the
> introductory text seems fairly informal, which may be the intent, but
> it is not reading like a standard (maybe on purpose?).

I agree, a better formulation can ease the read.

One thing I would like to add is that the dominant latency (and the most 
difficult to reduce with state of the art hardware) in this chain is the 
first hop between the human and the electronic device.  In keyboards, 
that ranges from 2ms (minimum on the market) to 10 to 15ms otherwise 
useful for e.g. organ playing.

The same is true with other digital acquisition systems: webcam 
latencies, in applications like rear view mirrors for automobiles with a 
high degree of safety requirements, need to feature very low latency, 
ideally 0, but obviously impossible.

On another hand, I think here the work needs to concentrate on latency 
of the communication system, and that can be reduced very much.  For 
example, some consumer wireless communication systems feature latencies 
well below the ms range.

Alex

> Thanks, Matt
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic
>> Networking of the IETF.
>>
>> Title           : Deterministic Networking Use Cases Authors
>> : Ethan Grossman Craig Gunther Pascal Thubert Patrick Wetterwald
>> Jean Raymond Jouni Korhonen Yu Kaneko Subir Das Yiyong Zha Balázs
>> Varga János Farkas Franz-Josef Goetz Juergen Schmitt Filename
>> : draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-02.txt Pages           : 84 Date
>> : 2016-02-10
>>
>> Abstract: This draft documents requirements in several diverse
>> industries to establish multi-hop paths for characterized flows
>> with deterministic properties.  In this context deterministic
>> implies that streams can be established which provide guaranteed
>> bandwidth and latency which can be established from either a Layer
>> 2 or Layer 3 (IP) interface, and which can co-exist on an IP
>> network with best-effort traffic.
>>
>> Additional requirements include optional redundant paths, very
>> high reliability paths, time synchronization, and clock
>> distribution. Industries considered include wireless for industrial
>> applications, professional audio, electrical utilities, building
>> automation systems, radio/mobile access networks, automotive, and
>> gaming.
>>
>> For each case, this document will identify the application,
>> identify representative solutions used today, and what new uses an
>> IETF DetNet solution may enable.
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> _______________________________________________ detnet mailing
>> list [email-masked] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
>
> _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list
> [email-masked] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
>