Subject: Re: New RR for DNS - GLOC

From: Jerry Scharf <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:01:57 -0700 (PDT)

Michael,

Go read the original mail, it talked about zip codes, city names and the
like. The ISO "state" codes are not going to be terribly useful for
drawing maps (texas would be an example from what I can tell) and you
still need to look it up somewhere to understand what it means.

I think the comment that TXT records are not strict enough is very weak.
TXT records are as strict as the application that uses them. If you use
the same kind of strictness that the resolver requires of DNS messages,
the strictness should be about the same.

We have created a lot of RRs that have been defined and not used much,
including LOC. Rather than finding more things to standardize, let's
understand who is going to use it and how. From the description given
in the original mail and what you have said, I still see no specific
application that will cause wide use. If there is not a case for wide
use, then there isn't a case for interoperability and the IETF should
not be involved. I have too many drafts to read or scan before Oslo, and
the last thing I think we need is another draft for an RR of dubious
value.

BTW, which nameserver codebases are you expecting to imlement this RR?
Why not do it in a TXT record, which requires no nameserver code and
no IETF time. Then prove me an idiot by showing the use of it (I'm
used to it) and we can discuss it again.

jerry

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From: Andrew Brown <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:23:02 -0400

>the last thing I think we need is another draft for an RR of dubious

two short points :)

(1) i put a loc record in whereever i can.  i think it's cool.  people
usually take them out later because they don't know what it is.

fwiw - i do think a "graphical" traceroute with a map of the world (or
perhaps one that grows to fit :) showing the approximate location of
each host along a path would be really fun to look at.  alas...but for
the time and experience needed and the lack of loc records everywhere,
this is not going to be available any time soon.  :(

(2) sometimes i put the machine's approximate location in a txt
record.  again, just for fun.  i even (once) fitted a perl wrapper
around a traceroute program to look for likely looking txt records for
each hop along the way.  of course...if the ptr records are missing,
you're just as lost.  but it is kinda neat to see stuff like:

...
 4  291.ATM3-0.XR1.NYC1.ALTER.NET (146.188.176.173) [new york, ny, usa]
 5  191.ATM10-0-0.BR1.BOS1.ALTER.NET (146.188.177.1) [boston, ma, usa]
 6  137.39.23.90
 7  p11-0-0.boston1-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.0.2.249) [boston, ma, usa]
 8  p2-0.cambridge1-nbr2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.3.54) [boston, ma, usa]
...

(data made up since there ain't much, but it does work in a small
infrastructure somewhere)

-- 
|-----< "CODE WARRIOR" >-----|
[email-masked]             * "ah!  i see you have the internet
[email-masked] (Andrew Brown)                that goes *ping*!"
[email-masked]       * "information is power -- share the wealth."

---

From: "Al Costanzo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:24:53 -0500

If you would like to see what an  example could do visit:

http://www.neotrace.com/   and download the beta copy.

It has its own internal database or it can use the GPOS record in DNS.

_BUT_ and here is the but..  LOC and GPOS use lat and log.  not everyone has
a GPS in their back pocket and many administrators have networks that span
an area.

_SO_ to make the record widely used, make it easy to use!  You use the
information you know.

country state region (postal code if the country has one)
programs like neotrace will take this information and turn it into lat and
log degrees without the person administrating DNS to have to sit there and
figure it out.

Because the record is a defined RR with a defined structure we will be able
to know where to look for the information we need and will be able to do
fast plotting on our world map.

The precision will be as good as the information provided.  Postal Code will
NOT be required but would help...

I hope this explains why GPOS and LOC records are not widely used and will
most likely never be.

As for the comment that people tend to delete LOC records because they do
not know what they are:
Someone looking a GLOC record will know exactly what it is and not delete
because it will look like a postal address.

For those who argue that this type of record does not belong in DNS IMHO, I
say, if HINFO and WKS belong, this surely does since it defines the physical
location of the host, that HINFO defines...

-Al