Subject: [edu-team] Members so far...

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:16:50 -0400

Hi All,

So far, the following people are signed up for the core
education team mailing list:

	Harald Alvestrand
	Avri Doria
	James Seng
	Margaret Wasserman

I've sent a message to April Marine attempting to recruit
her -- she's just returned from vacation and is considering
it.  April has considerable background and experience with
other IETF training efforts.

Who else should we actively recruit?  Perhaps Scott Bradner
and/or Radia Perlman?

Or are there others that it would be better to pursue?  I'd
prefer to limit our list to two or three more people, at least
until we have enough experience to know what skills we are
lacking, etc.

Margaret

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From: avri <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:35:27 +0900

i would recommend waiting until you get the chair and see if she has
any suggestions.  either Scott or Radia would be a fine choice. but i 
wonder
if we have any active participant who are educators or who have designed
courses in the past.  one of the things i like about the IETF is that 
so many
people got here via non-traditional routes and have all kinds of 
interesting
other skills and background.

a.

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From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:46:23 -0400

Hi Avri,

At 10:35 AM 7/29/2003 +0900, avri wrote:
>any suggestions.  either Scott or Radia would be a fine choice. but i wonder
>courses in the past.  one of the things i like about the IETF is that so many
>people got here via non-traditional routes and have all kinds of interesting

The current plan, as I understand it, is for me to lead this
activity during the start-up phase, and then for Harald and me
to transition leadership of this activity to someone else...

This may or may not involve identifying the next leader before
Minneapolis, so I'd like to have a strong enough team to do
two things in the short term:

         - Plan and execute training activities for Minneapolis
                 (hopefully adding editors training to the
                 curriculum).
         - Start work on what's next for Seoul...  Maybe that
                 would be a good time to launch some sort of
                 support for non-North American participants?

Do you think that the four or five of us (with or without the
addition of April, and understand that Harald mainly plans to
participate as an observer) will be sufficient?

Margaret

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From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:11:30 +0900

> to transition leadership of this activity to someone else...

i see. i did not understand that before.
in which case, April should probably at least be a team member.

>                 support for non-North American participants?

i do think it is good to only introduce one or two things max at a 
time.  so yes, editor training next time and ESL the time after.  
perhaps even offer the intro course in other languages, since this is 
info that is critical to functioning.  you don't even need a different 
slide set, just someone who can explain the english slides in a 
populations primary language.  we could even have simultaneous 
meetings, since the people who attend the course in Korean would not be 
the ones to attend in Japanese.

we might also want to add a version of the Miss Manners, or should i 
say 3184, training as a regular part of the curriculum.  for this, the 
sooner the better.

[an aside can we make 3184 training mandatory for people who 
egregiously  offend others?  kind of like safe driver training for 
drunks - you are not allowed back on list x until you have successfully 
completed 3184 training  - and make it mandatory  for all I*s and 
chairs - no, probably not]

> participate as an observer) will be sufficient?

since Radia is one of the teachers and course designers, it might be 
good to have her as well.  but yes, i think a few could do it while you 
find the right mix of talent to add to this group.

a.

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From: James Seng <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:31:37 +0800

Actually, Korean meeting would be a very interesting challenge.

I know many excellent Korean engineers who unfortunately could not 
communicate with me without a translator. I expect there will be many of 
them there.

In my previous working group, there are many times where I am involved 
in a discussion between an American, an Asian and myself in English. The 
American couldnt not understand the Asian and vice versa. So very 
strangely, I have to "translate" (by repeating and rephrasing) what one 
say to another so both will understand.

As such, I think it is good idea for us to have an education session for 
the WG-chairs before the Seoul meeting on how to handle a group meeting 
where there is ESL people around. (e.g. remind the presentors to speak 
slower, using simple english. repeat, in plain english, the questions on 
the mike and summary the answer again, etc).

-James Seng

> populations primary language.  we could even have simultaneous meetings, 
> since the people who attend the course in Korean would not be the ones 
> to attend in Japanese.
> 
> we might also want to add a version of the Miss Manners, or should i say 
> 3184, training as a regular part of the curriculum.  for this, the 
> sooner the better.
> 
> completed 3184 training  - and make it mandatory  for all I*s and chairs 
> - no, probably not]
>

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:19:01 -0400

>in which case, April should probably at least be a team member.

Harald has indicated that he wants me to continue leading this
effort, at least until the we have formed the initial team and
established the charter.

I've already asked April to join the team, and she is considering
it.  I also asked her if she would be willing to take over leadership
of this effort, perhaps coming on as a co-leader immediately
(subject to Harald's approval, of course).  If she is interested
in leading this effort, I may be able to transition out of the
leadership role fairly quickly.  If not, we'll have to consider
other choices.

>perhaps even offer the intro course in other languages, since this is info 
>that is critical to functioning.  you don't even need a different slide 
>set, just someone who can explain the english slides in a populations 
>primary language.  we could even have simultaneous meetings, since the 
>people who attend the course in Korean would not be the ones to attend in 
>Japanese.

Maybe we could at least arrange for a Korean-language version
(or translation of the English version) when we're in Korea...
Running several courses simultaneously in different languages
might be more than we should tackle in our first attempt.

>since Radia is one of the teachers and course designers, it might be good 
>to have her as well.

I am concerned about setting the precedent that everyone who teaches
a course should be part of the core team...  Teachers may vary over
time, and we may add more courses, and I wouldn't like to build in
that type of automatic expansion of the core team.

That said, though, I think that Radia has a lot of good ideas and
would add value in the core team, as would Scott.  Thomas Narten has
also been quite involved in training to-date.  And, Elwyn Davies
volunteered...

I think I'll take your advice, though, and let this rest until
we hear back from April, and/or until I see who else actually
volunteers.

>but yes, i think a few could do it while you find the right mix of talent 
>to add to this group.

Sounds good.

Margaret