Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-guerra-feminism-00.txt

From: Juliana Guerra <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:10:45 -0500

Hello everyone, last week we submitted a draft on feminism and protocols
which can be of interest in this group. This is a very preliminary
approach, trying to recognize the differentiated effects of protocols on
users who are part of traditionally marginalized groups. With this
document we would like to draw attention to the need to join efforts in
order to build safer, more accessible and inclusive digital environments.

Your comments, questions and input will be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Juliana Guerra

Name:		draft-guerra-feminism
Revision:	00
Title:		Feminism and protocols
Document date:	2019-03-11
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		15
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-guerra-feminism-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-guerra-feminism/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-guerra-feminism-00
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-guerra-feminism

Abstract:
   This document aims to describe how internet standrds and protocols
   and its implementations may impact diverse groups and communities.
   The research on how some protocol can be enabler for specific human
   rights while possibly restricting others has been documented in
   [RFC8280].  Similar to how RFC 8280 has taken a human rights lens
   through which to view engineering and design choices by internet
   standardisation, this document addreses the opportunities and
   vulnerabilities embedded within internet protocols for specific,
   traditionally maginalised groups.

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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From: Shivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:09:08 +0100

Hi Juliana, Mallory,

Thanks for this. I took a quick look at it.

1.2 The title is "Intersectional feminism and diversity", so it reads a bit
funny for the leading rhetorical question "why feminism and not gender?" to
only concern itself with gender. Similarly for the rest of the para;
perhaps some examples of other marginalized categories might be useful?
Also there's a lot of commas in this para :)

1.3 Maybe add a reference to Feminist Principles here? In general the
Principles are mentioned quite a few times in the draft, so might be worth
thinking about the best way to discuss the Principles in one place and how
they relate to IETF work (or not).

1.4.2.  2.2. (?) mentions that the draft delves into how gender appears in
IETF documents, but I don't see that analysis anywhere (unless I'm missing
it?). Is that TBD?

The numbering on the whole in the draft got muddled up I think :) which
made the rest of the document hard to follow.

This is a "full" -00 draft, and it reads a bit rambly, which is fine. I
think it will be slightly easier to review once the structure/numbering is
sorted out!

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 7:11 PM Juliana Guerra <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-guerra-feminism
>
>
> Abstract:
> _______________________________________________
> hrpc mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc
>

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From: Juliana Guerra <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:43:55 -0500

Thanks Shivan for your comments. As you say it's a full 00 draft and all
what you metioned should be clarified. We'll have a few minutes to talk
about it tomorrow in HRPC session so I hope to explain better. For now,

> Also there's a lot of commas in this para :)

Agree. It seems to be necessary to give an explanation of some
terminology used. And the comas, thanks, writing english as if it were
spanish :P

> they relate to IETF work (or not).

Yes!
> IETF documents, but I don't see that analysis anywhere (unless I'm missing

Didn't mentioned but: It's a work in progress. Trying to adopt some
automated tools but for now making a kind of handcraft analysis.
> made the rest of the document hard to follow.
My mistake. But I attended the md and xml2rfcv3 tutorials. Will not
happen again, I hope.

---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:05:02 +0100

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 01:09:08PM +0100,
 Shivan <[email-masked]> wrote 

> IETF documents, but I don't see that analysis anywhere (unless I'm missing

Yes. An example:

In all RFCs, there are 372 occurrences of 'he' and 140 of
'she'. Warning: 'he' and 'she' sometimes refer to real persons (so the
RFC author had no choice) and sometimes to personae ("the user then
selects X or, if she prefers, Y").

In the RFCs published in 2005 or after (this year was chosen
arbitrarily), its 162 and 93. Some progress, from 18 % to 36 %.