Subject: [Hubmib] HUBMIB/AToMMIB Joint Mtg - IETF 51st final minutes

From: Nathan Kohn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:24:53 -0400

Here are the minutes for the joint  HUBMIB/AToMMIB meeting tue aug-07-01 at the
51st IETF London.  

nathan kohn

HUBMIB (Ether)/AToMMIB Joint Session
 chaired by Dan Romascanu <[email-masked]> & Nathan Kohn <[email-masked]>

Minutes by John Flick & Nathan Kohn

Attendance about 20, mostly hubmib.

Objective: Discuss cooperated efforts in defining a MIB that will cover 802.3ae WAN interface  sublayer.  Data rate and format compatible with SONET STS-192c.

   - Discuss the potential for next revision of RFC 2558 to cover
   - Or a new MIB that will cover both SONET and 10 Gbs Ethernet interfaces using
     SONET

Current internet draft: draft-ietf-hubmib-wis-mib-00.txt

This draft generated several comments both from SONET community and IEEE. Dan presented both the IEEE and HUBMIB status and schedules. IEEE began work in January 2000, scheduled to finish work in March, 2002. Ethernet MIB WG would like to be ready with MIBS at roughly the same time as IEEE finishes its standard.  Dan is a voting memeber of IEEE and feels that work can be done effeciently in parallel.

 IEEE Status:
   - Draft D3.1 published, draft D3.2 to be published in the next few weeks
   - Dan can provide passwords to our WG members to access the IEEE drafts
   - Next ballot with all 802 members
   - Content quite stable, reduced number of open issues
   - Dan met with IEEE folks at last plenary that resulted in a set of inputs
     to the hubmib

Independently, Mike Heard and Kaj Tesnik have issued an alternate individual internet-draft for WIS.  Unfortunately, neither was able to attend this meeting.

Dan asked how many had read WIS draft – very few hands went up

Mike Ayers reviews current draft – current draft was primarily to get comments. WIS is somewhat of a challenge because it has its feet in both the LAN world and the WAN (SONET) world.  Many of the things in the SONET MIB were just copied into the WIS MIB.  Draft was based on IEEE D3.0, did not include updates from D3.1.

 Two major questions:
   - If this is manageable as both Ethernet and SONET, how do we arrange the MIB to be usable by both Ethernet and SONET management systems simultaneously, without confusing either.  WIS is similar, but not exactly SONET.
   - IfStack usage: one proposal is etherCsmacd/sonetPath/sonet: would we confuse
     SONET managers if we did this, since you cannot configure multiple paths in WIS?
   - Several questions about specific management objects; example, is the SONET object SONET-SES-OTHER-SET, which allows four different ways of collecting stats.  The question was whether it was prescriptive or descriptive.  After discussion it was decided that it is descriptive. However we need to address the top-level question of how we represent the interface first

Need input from management app developers of how various representations would  affect them. 

Current document does not provide mapping to IEEE objects.  Dan  asked if we had gone thru the exercise of mapping between the IEEE clause 30 objects and 2558 objects.  Mike answered that we need to understand the differences between the IEEE objects and SONET objects.  An example is the reset and power options - are they only applicable for the section?  Should these objects only be for WIS?  Another 

 Dan summarized 3 main issues:
   - Need to describe our interface model, what the stack layerslooks like, and how it
 is managed.
   - Need to map IEEE clause 30 objects to SONET and/or WIS objects.  Are all necessary, are any missing?
   - How do we reconcile counter models used by Ethernet world and SONET world.  How are the statistics for counters veiwed from the higher layers?

Need input from SONET folks on this.  Particularly on the future direction for SONET MIBs, i.e. provisioning.

Can we put together a design team with current WIS editors along with Mike and Kaj to have them come up with answers to these three major issues.

Chairs of hubmib and atommib will put together list of questions for design team, which will consist of current hubmib editors, Mike and Kaj who submitted counter-proposal.  Kam Lam (co-author of the optical mib in AToMMIB) also volunteered for design team.  This will be a joint design team which will feed back to both WGs.  HUBMIB and AToMMIB are both meeting on thursday and will discuss the proposal within each WG.

Here are the proposed questions (supplied by Dan after the meeting):

	1. What is the layers model for the Ethernet-WIS interfaces, 
	   and how will this model map tothe Interfaces MIB? 

	2. What is the proposed mapping of the management objects 
	   in IEEE 802.3ae in the WIS MIB, and SONET MIB? 

	3. What is the proposed solution for supporting the performance counters 
	   in a manner that would be satisfy both users / applications using 
	   Ethernet/RMON, and SONET methods of performance monitoring?