Subject: [Ideas] Minutes of IDEAS side meeting @IETF97

From: Padma Pillay-Esnault <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 08:50:53 -0800

Hello IDEAS!

Please find below the minutes of IDEAS side meeting @IETF97.

Thanks to all of you who attended the meeting and to Les Ginsberg for
taking minutes.

Please take a look and let us know if there are any changes needed.

Looking forward to your contributions.

Padma

IDEAS Side Meeting Minutes  IETF97

1. Agenda

Padma Pillay-Esnault (Huawei) - Introduction on problem statement for IDEAS
(10 mins)

Presented the problem statement draft and the Use cases.

Robert Raszuk: Should we define what identity is?

Padma: Agree. The document take a stab at this by defining identities and
in which context. There is a table in the document that captures the
different aspects of ID usage, allocation and its impact on a dynamic
mapping system.

Sam Aldrin: What is primary focus? What problem are you really trying to
solve? Narrow the scope - or are we trying to define a problem because we
have a solution?

Padma: The primary focus is the design and deployment of a dynamic mapping
system.

The Problem statement discusses in detail the problems we are trying to
solve. Among those many problems is Session continuity in mobility which is
important as we have more and more mobile modes in cellular as well as ip
mobility(DC). Another important problem that can be solved and is discussed
in the paper is Cross-silo communication. Encourage everyone to read the
document.

Luigi: We have multiple encaps and mappings and want to manage in a common
way.

But what is a common ID? Please clarify.

Padma: In this case we are not necessarily looking for a common single ID.
What we are trying to do is to map an ID to location. So that we can have
the Identity dissociated with the locator so that mobility is fully
supported. What we are proposing is to have a common control plane that
have access to a mapping system used by all. It is not very practical to
deploy one global mapping system per protocol or application.

Luigi: Do we have to solve who is allocating the ID? Maybe we do not have
to solve this problem.

Padma: Well it depends. We have both the case for public and private IDs.
For public IDs to be used by a common control plane, we will require some
rules.

Luigi: But what form will the ID take?

Dino: Different EID types for different purposes. Hopefully they will be
used

for different purposes. Should it be geographical, first come first served,

assigned at birth,...many types allocated differently.

L2 overlays have the MAC address.

ID allocation independent of database.

~General discussion about EID types and mapping systems.

Bob Moskowitz: I am the Last member of the EID cabal. :-)

Many discussions have been already What characteristics required of an EID?
What is good/bad? Capturing that would be good. There is two decades of
experience available – would be good to make use of that.

Padma: There is a table in the draft which captures some aspects of this
discussion.

How are we actually using IDs today? And how it should be used or
restricted.

Can we use ID properties to provide better security for example?

Georgios: Take into account use cases in 5G and IoT, since they will impose
requirements that we did not have up to now.

**********************************************************

Tom Herbert ( Facebook) - The ILA protocol and NMS (10 mins)

Scale to 100’s of billion aggregate mappings

No aggregation assumed, 1%change per second

Able to attach ancillary data to mapping

Bob: Is this intended to be globally unique?

Tom: Globally unique in a domain.

Bob: with 7B population w 64 bit # 74% probability of collision.

This must be accounted for. Will post the formula for calculating
likelihood of collision.

Tom: We do have a method to generate unique identifiers.

Covers 20 years of experience.

Mapping system detects conflicts at registration.

Bob: Agreed. But 10 devices/person gives high probability of collisions

Kiran: Scope of identifier determined by locator?

Tom: Identifiers unique for a domain.

Reverse translation requires locator to map back to the original prefix.

Ingress/Egress translation. Both sides have to agree on the pairing.

Kiran Makhijani: If age out of cache how can you detect?

Tom: If we lose ILA routers need to have other ILA addresses available.

An open issue

Kiran Makhijani: Need to have reliability solution base requirements
related to NMS

************************************************

Dino Farinacci ( Lispers) - LISP Mapping system, How it works? (10 mins)

Presented LISP Site to access of mapping System, Site Registration

10 years of experience and DDT mapping server.

Hierarchical network structure based on EID Allocation

3 levels of hierarchy to get 1billion registrations: 1 Million for 1 MS

Multiple mapping systems

Tom: With DNS have to wait for resolution - looks like you have same issue

w LISP DDT?

Dino: Solved by LISP has default cache in ITR.

Albert: if you don’t was to resolve, you can set default route to proxy RTR
which has all the mappings

Fabio: Proxy DNS - you send to the router which has all the information.

Dino points that if there are too many mappings In LISP we can use proxy
ETRs , where requests can be distributed.

Tom: In ILA had too many mappings in one device and now ILA does something
similar.

************************************************

Gerry Forster ( UoSurrey) - ETSi NGP: GTP, Mobility  & Flat 5G
Architecture( 15 mins) Presented the mobile network as being most
successful system, however GTP is expensive and adds to the cost for
whoever is paying for spectrum. The user data is tunneled at least 3 times
and GTP need to be updated for mobility. Smaller native headers (most of
the time).

Presented UoS work.

Association-based secure membership of each level of network access

Scalable addressing (16 bit most of the time, 52 bit global). 3-level
ID-based Mobility (Cluster, Inter-Cluster, Network)

Routing tables are local, but indexed for gateway function by 3-level ID
lookup (not DNS, but intelligent network hierarchy and Meta-Data). Transmission
is tailored by profile to level of access, access type and networking level

Lookups/ routes are through intelligent use of meta-data based ‘Context’ =
ID Enabled Networking

Dino: Can we assign IPv6 address but use a 16 bit address?

Gerry : Yes - can virtualize end-to-end.

Gerry: New protocol for access networks - can do the same for wifi.

Dino: Only limit is 65K connections at one time.

Gerry: Limit the number of translations or compromise the delay.

************************************************

Fabio Maino(Cisco) - Deployment experience of  Mapping Systems ( 10 mins)

Presented various use cases and deployment experience Internet based VPN,
IPv6 transition, BGP free multihoming, DC host mobility

Up to now mapping system in the router. Based on current requirements it is
needed to bring mapping system out of the router.

************************************************

Dave Meyer (UoOregon/Brocade) - Machine Learning  and Network Mapping
System  ( 15 Mins)

??: How did you get the parameters from networking? Are they addresses

Dave: Just flattened the number - used different parameters e.g. number of

map requests? Other parameters - will need to learn what works in the
network case.

************************************************

A. Cabellos, J Vilanova & F Maino (UoCatalunya, Ecole P. Lausanne, Cisco) -
A Blockchain-based Mapping System (15 mins)

Padma: Have you looked at scalability?

Fabio: Yes - scales well.

??: Is it clear that use cases are enforcing new requirements other than
are provided by LISP (for example)?

Will problem scope be different than in LISP? What might be the advantage
of IDEAS work rather than LISP?

Padma: Out of time - take it to the list. How can we be most useful?

Need to work on defining the exact scope.

??:Will it be a BOF?

Padma: Not sure yet.

2. Admin & Location

Date: Thursday, 17th November 2016

Time : 6:00 - 8:00pm

Venue: Studio2

Mailing list: IDEAS

List address: [email-masked]

Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=ideas

To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

Related areas: RTG, OPS

Scribe: Les Ginsberg

Number of attendees: 40+3.

3. Related Documents and Reads:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-padma-ideas-problem-statement-00

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-herbert-nvo3-ila-03

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6830

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6833

http://www.3gpp.org/release-14

---

From: Padma Pillay-Esnault <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 09:15:38 -0800

FYI. Feel free to forward.

Looking forward to working with you all
Padma

*From:* Ideas [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf Of *Padma
Pillay-Esnault
*Sent:* Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:51 AM
*To:* [email-masked]
*Subject:* [Ideas] Minutes of IDEAS side meeting @IETF97

Hello IDEAS!

Padma

1. Agenda

An open issue

Multiple mapping systems

w LISP DDT?

Presented UoS work.

??:Will it be a BOF?

Padma: Not sure yet.

2. Admin & Location

Time : 6:00 - 8:00pm

Venue: Studio2

Mailing list: IDEAS

Related areas: RTG, OPS

Scribe: Les Ginsberg