Subject: [idn] http://pi.cr.yp.to

From: "D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]>
Date: 8 Aug 2001 15:16:02 -0000

http://pi.cr.yp.to is a collection of tests for a typical UTF-8 domain
name. Try it with your browser and mailer, and let me know what happens.

---Dan

---

From: "David R. Conrad" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:17:35 -0700

Dan,

You web page is deceitful (as is typical).

Rgds,
-drc

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:30:11 +0100

>name. Try it with your browser and mailer, and let me know what happens.

the "pi" links did not work.  i run vanilla Win 2000 and IE.

d/

----------
Dave Crocker  <mailto:[email-masked]>
Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464

---

From: Rick H Wesson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:50:02 -0700 (PDT)

Dan,

your links didn't work for me. Linux/Netscape-4.77

-rick

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From: Dan Ebert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:52:21 -0700

> name. Try it with your browser and mailer, and let me know what happens.

I tried all four links on your page. 

IE 5.5 on Win98 failed.  
Nescape 4.76 on Linux failed. 
Nescape 4.78 on Win98 went to a web page, but the address in the
location bar did not display a 'pi' in the host name.

-- 
Dan Ebert      <[email-masked]>       eNIC Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
   -- Groucho Marx

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From: "D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]>
Date: 8 Aug 2001 16:51:37 -0000

IE 5.1 for MacOS X follows the links. However, I've heard from a couple
of sources that recent versions of IE for Windows screw up. Apparently
IE is sending a corrupted \357\200 instead of \317\200.

I'm interested in hearing an explanation from the Microsoft people here.

---Dan

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From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:27:58 -0400

> I'm interested in hearing an explanation from the Microsoft people here.

garbage in, garbage out.  what did you expect?

---

From: David Hopwood <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:32:38 +0100

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> name. Try it with your browser and mailer, and let me know what happens.

Netscape 4.7 on Windows resolves π.cr.yp.to correctly (but with the URI
in the location bar displayed as if it was ISO-Latin-1, on my system).

Mozilla build 2001062815 on Windows fails (displays a blank page, with
http://%CF%80.cr.yp.to in the location bar).

MSIE 5.50.4134.0600 on Windows fails with "Cannot find server or DNS Error".

The Netscape mail client doesn't allow typing or pasting non-ISO-Latin-1
into a To: field without adding quotes around the local part, and this
causes an error from the server when sending the mail.

The Mozilla mail client fails sending to [email-masked] because it tries
to convert the address to "=?UTF-8?B?...=".

This message is text/plain; charset=utf-8 - try this link:

  http://π.cr.yp.to/

(works in Netscape 4.7 on Windows).

However, to send this mail from NS4.7 I had to cheat slightly: set the
character set in the View menu to UTF-8, but ignore the fact that characters
are displayed in the text composition window as ISO-Latin-1. Sending UTF-8
mail works better in Mozilla.

- -- 
David Hopwood <[email-masked]>

Home page & PGP public key: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hopwood/
RSA 2048-bit; fingerprint 71 8E A6 23 0E D3 4C E5  0F 69 8C D4 FA 66 15 01
Nothing in this message is intended to be legally binding. If I revoke a
public key but refuse to specify why, it is because the private key has been
seized under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act; see www.fipr.org/rip

---

From: "Eric A. Hall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:31:37 -0500

charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Sender: [email-masked]
Precedence: bulk

[I'd do more testing but I'm still getting my lab together after moving]

Internet Explorer/Outlook Express 5.5, Windows 2000 Professional, SP2

Asking for http://π.cr.yp.to with IE 5.5 on Win2000, failed when
browser
issued lookup query for 5-byte label of C3 AF E2 82 AC instead of π.
Got a
negative response, and then the resolver appended .ntrg.com. onto the
end of
the query, tried again, and failed that one too. IE reports error an
error
to the user.

Asking for http://π.cr.yp.to/index.html goes through the same steps but
doesn't report an error to the user. It just goes off into lala land.

Trying to paste the domain name into Outlook Express resulted in a
message
addressed to [email-masked]

Replying to the test address gives [email-masked], which is the
same results as pasting the URL from test 1.

Netscape Communicator 4.78, Windows 2000 Professional, SP2

Netscape Communicator 4.78 on Win2000 fails on the hyperlink altogether
with
an error. The name doesn't go out on the wire in any DNS lookups
whatsoever,
suggesting that Navigator is filtering it locally.

Trying to paste the domain name into Communicator's mail client resulted
in
Ï€.cr.yp.to, with "djb"@Ï€.cr.yp.to being forced for djb@.

Replying to the test address gives "D. J. Bernstein"
<"djb-pibounce-Ï€"@cr.yp.to>, same results as pasting

Internet Explorer/Outlook Express 5, MacOS 8.5

π is transliterated into MacRoman, displaying as œÄ in the statusbar
and the
input bar. But the browser was able to get to the web site okay.

Pasting the domain name into OE works, resulting in [email-masked].
*BUT* OE
won't let me send the message, as it greys out the Send button and puts
a
big question mark next to the address.

Replying to the test address gives "djb-pibounce-??"@cr.yp.to

Netscape Communicator 4.75, MacOS 8.5

π is transliterated into MacRoman, displaying as œÄ in the statusbar.
But
the browser was able to get to the web site okay.

Pasting the domain name into a message showed it in MacRoman form while
editing, but the domain showed properly after moving to the next field.
However, it still showed as "djb"@ on the left-hand-side.

Replying to the test address gives "djb-pibounce-XX"@cr.yp.to where XX
are
characters I can't be bothered to decode (one looks like lowercase
I-with-umlaut and the other looks like a snippet of DNA sequencing).

Netscape Communicator 4.75, Sparc Solaris 8

The name doesn't go onto the wire and Communicator reports a rejection,
suggesting that the resolver is rejecting the lookup. Note that the name
displayed in the status bar is http://Ï .cr.yp.to (note the space after
the
I-with-umlaut character).

Pasting the name into a message gives djb@?.cr.yp.to

Replying to the test address gives similar results to Mac test

CDE Mail, Sparc Solaris 8

Replying to the test message gives "djb-pibounce-Ï "@cr.yp.to (note the
space after I-with-umlaut).

Netscape Communicator 4.75, Digital Unix 4.0d

The domain name is malformed with an I-with-Umlaut and a block (unknown
char) but the web page is opened.

Pasting the domain name into a message gives djb@?.cr.yp.to

Replying to the test message gives "djb-pibounce-Ï?"@cr.yp.to

Konquerer 2.1.1, KDE 2.1.2, Mandrake Linux 8.0

Clicking the link does nothing. The status bar shows ? instead of pi.

KMail 1.2, KDE 2.1.2, Mandrake Linux 8.0

Replying to the test message gives "djb-pibounce-Ï "@cr.yp.to (note the
space after I-with-umlaut).

Hopefully this sufficiently proves that just-do-UTF8 is a non-starter.
Dan
we have to do it through a different message type to keep these problems
from happening.

---
Eric A. Hall
http://www.ehsco.com/
Internet Core Protocols
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/coreprot/