Subject: [idn] Question for the Kanji & Hanja cognosentee

From: Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:12:22 -0400

>                                      ...  this would means languages
> which uses Chinese script (like kanji and Hanja) would also do the
> same (TC/SC) folding.

Does anyone know what this might mean?

SC/TC equivalence in Kanji? In Hanja??

Eric

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From: "Bruce Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:31:46 +0900

SC are not used in Kanji, and the folding is not particularly
useful for Japan. In practice it would mean that registering
a Kanji (TC) name in Japan would block the SC equivalent
from being registered in China, and vice versa. From the
Japanese perspective, excepting big multinational corporations,
this is counterproductive, as it just reduces the number
of names available.

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From: "Soobok Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:32:23 +0900

SC is also not used in Hanja ( Korean Han character sets, 4888  chars defined  in KSC5601).

Many  Korean(Hangeul) words have 1 or more TC representations.
The capital of Japan, "Tokyo" has both of its HIRAGANA & Kanji representation which are
used interchangeably very often. Japanese folks may pronounce Kanji "Tokyo" as the same
as Hiragana "Tokyo"over the phone line to interchange their IDN email addresses.
The same pronunciation and meaning, but with different words!!!
That's also true for Hangeul words and its TC equivalents.

These are related to trademark(out of IDN scope)/security (in  IDN scope)  problems.

Soobok Lee

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From: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:04:20 +0800

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Thomson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [idn] Question for the Kanji & Hanja cognosentee

> SC are not used in Kanji, and the folding is not particularly

     This is not always true , for example: nation,  TC(國) is not used in
Japan, China and Japan use SC(国).  Japan use a small set of CJK character
that are japan simplified traditional Kanji . Many of these are used in
Taiwan and China , these are not just the PRC simplified characters. I think
no Japanese will be happy  if 日本國 will be confused with  日本国 .
     In the registed record of ML.mltbd.com ,  there are many mixed Kanji
and kana records,  if it can be treated and identified as a full recored of
mixing Kanji and Kana , then it is not need to do equivalence operation.
     I suggest draft of  tsconv should print/list  all the scripts form, and
people in CJK area  can review it quickly to reduce that table to fit of
nameprep  needing .
     Not all equivalent SC/TC should be put into nameprep of  client ,
there are just a small set of  PRC quick-written characters , for ex.
TC(統) SC(统) ,  TC(頻) SC(频) ...
     If you print them out in font form, you will find them just like  "fi"
in confusing  status.
     Today, CJK area use SJIS , unc-kr, GB, big5  so they can not meet in
each other , but if UNICODE table are build-in in your furture system ,
then your Kanji.com  trade mark name will be confused by an un-aware people
.
     I think the case is the same in Korean Hanja name(especially in
people's name) .
     No one want to hurt other people by the standardrization in IDN,  so
we need to check the final results and not to neglect them.

L.M.Tseng

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From: "Bruce Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:27:04 +0900

----- Original Message -----
From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>

> no Japanese will be happy  if 日本國 will be confused with  日本国 .

Right. I think we are making the same point here, which is that Japanese
users think of Kanji as a Japanese script, distinct from Chinese and Korean
scripts, and they will be dismayed if their domains are displayed in
different
script or if their registration of a Kanji name is blocked because of a
prior
registration of  the Chinese equivalent in a different script. Of course if
the
characters used are actually identical, they would probably accept that the
name was already taken.

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From: "Soobok Lee" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:24:49 +0900

----- Original Message ----- 
> different script or 

Not always!
Future IDN-aware applications MAY carry the pre-normalization form of 
IDNs to display the original prefered forms of them .
This issue seems to be in the middle between application scope and iDN scope.

>if their registration of a Kanji name is blocked because of a
> prior registration of  the Chinese equivalent in a different script. 
>Of course if the

It's wise for the registries  to give "already taken" message instead
of "blocked"  for registration failure  to avoid registrants'
complaints . :-))

Soobok Lee