Subject: Re: [idn] IDN WG Last Call: draft-ietf-idn-idna-06.txt

From: "D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]>
Date: 2 Feb 2002 04:19:26 -0000

These ``Last Calls'' are absurd. The claims of consensus are fraudulent.
Huge objections remain unaddressed. It is shameful that such a massive
change to such a basic part of the Internet architecture is being
handled in such a careless way.

The proposals at hand are contrary to the interests of my users. I am
speaking here as the author of

   * the mail software with the Internet's largest increase in
     SMTP-server deployment over the past 18 months (reaching #2 in
     total deployment, behind only Sendmail); and

   * the DNS software with the Internet's largest increase in
     domain-name deployment over the past 18 months (reaching #2 in
     total deployment, behind only BIND).

I refuse to implement the proposals in their current form.

---Dan

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From: "Adam M. Costello" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 07:03:31 +0000

"D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I am speaking here as the author of
> 
>    * the mail software with the Internet's largest increase...
>    * the DNS software with the Internet's largest increase...
> 

Good heavens, what will we do if qmail and djbdns won't support IDNA?

Oh wait, they *already do*, because IDNA doesn't depend on any changes
to existing DNS servers and mail transport agents.

AMC

---

From: "D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]>
Date: 2 Feb 2002 07:33:44 -0000

Adam M. Costello writes:
> IDNA doesn't depend on any changes

False. See http://cr.yp.to/proto/idn.html for a detailed list of the
changes required to make your proposals work. The list includes changes
to DNS servers, SMTP servers, and many other programs.

I realize that you claim that IDNs are already ``working'' on every
Internet computer today. That's because you have an idiotic definition
of what it means for an IDN to ``work.'' You say that calling a string
an IDN makes it an IDN, even if users read and write it as ASCII.

In contrast, every user I've talked to thinks that non-ASCII displays
are the whole point of IDN, and considers ASCII mangling of a so-called
IDN to be a failure, just as a Quoted-Printable display is a failure.

---Dan

---

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 23:57:40 -0800

>IDN to be a failure, just as a Quoted-Printable display is a failure.

and, no doubt, just as mime is a failure.

give it a rest, Dan.

d/

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Dave Crocker  <mailto:[email-masked]>
Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464