Subject: Re: [idn] Chinese Domain Name Consortium (CDNC) Declaration

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:15:04 -0800

[Note: header field too long; To & Cc header snapped - JS]

At 07:12 AM 2/5/2002 +0000, D. J. Bernstein wrote:
>Dave Crocker writes:
> > we have moved from technical specification into analysis of human
behavior
>
>Wake up, Dave: Human behavior is a central issue. The whole point of
>IDNs is to improve the user interface. IDNs are supposed to allow
>_humans_ to see non-ASCII glyphs in domain names.

wake up, dan.  there is a difference between providing a richer set of
characters, versus trying to solve open research topics in language
equivalence or even script equivalence.

>You say that the IETF is exceedingly bad at this. No argument there.

but what the heck.  let's insist that the IETF solve this open research
topic anyhow, right?

> > In point of fact, this "attack" has been performed, presumably with
> > some success.
>
>You admit that some users have been fooled by domain names with similar
>appearance, yet you continue to advocate that we allow domain names
with
>_identical_ appearance, names that can't be visually distinguished even
>by the most careful reader.

Provide an existing specification for solving this problem outside the
domain name service.  Provide a basis for believing that it has gained
wide
acceptance.

Oh.  You can't do that.

wow.

d/

>  Wow.
>---Dan

----------
Dave Crocker  <mailto:[email-masked]>
Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464

---

From: "D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Feb 2002 11:36:31 -0000

Dave Crocker writes:
> domain name service.

One well-known example is the standard TeX OML encoding, which includes
lowercase gamma and uppercase Gamma, and lowercase b and uppercase B,
and lowercase beta, but not a separate uppercase Beta. Why? Because
uppercase Beta and uppercase B have the same glyph.

> Provide a basis for believing that it has gained wide acceptance.
> Oh.  You can't do that.

Feel free to continue making a fool of yourself, Dave.

---Dan

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From: Jaap Akkerhuis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 13:17:24 +0100

[Adressee list trimmed to normal proportions]

    > Provide an existing specification for solving this problem outside the
    
  djb:

I seem to remember that the Euler font, especially made for TeX,
does has a seperate upper and lower case Beta. For every example,
one can always bring up a counter example.

	jaap

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From: "D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Feb 2002 13:08:01 -0000

> one can always bring up a counter example.

A counterexample to what? We already knew that b and beta and B and Beta
are often separated. They're separated in Unicode; that's why we're
having this discussion.

Anyway, you should learn to check your facts. The standard Euler fonts
follow the standard TeX encodings. For example, eurb10 uses the OML
encoding, which has a unified B/Beta, exactly as I explained before.

---Dan