Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Commentson draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

From: Tulip Rasputin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:12:06 -0400 (EDT)

Robert,

!> 
!> Would you be so kind to comment what proposed in your draft has not 
!> already been addressed in our ADD_PATHs proposal RR 
!> functionality wise ?

I see absolutely nothing wrong in this!

There isnt any rule in the IETF that forbids multiple submissions to achieve the same objective.
Its left on the community to decide which proposal they are most comfortable with. If it happens
to be the draft thats been submitted later, then so be it!

IETF is an open standards body, in case you forgot that, and nothing, is patented here. If you
dont want others to address the same issues that you've been trying to solve, then IETF isnt
really the right place for you to start with!

YOu should be patenting your ideas, but then, nobody else is going to implement them.

Hard Luck!

Tulip

!> 
!> Ref: draft-walton-bgp-add-paths-03.txt
!> 
!> Thx,
!> R.

__________________________________________________
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---

From: Alvaro Retana <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:16:57 -0700 (PDT)

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Tulip Rasputin wrote:

Tulip:

-> !> Would you be so kind to comment what proposed in your draft has not
-> !> already been addressed in our ADD_PATHs proposal RR !> functionality
-> wise ?
->
-> I see absolutely nothing wrong in this!
->
-> There isnt any rule in the IETF that forbids multiple submissions to
-> achieve the same objective. Its left on the community to decide which
-> proposal they are most comfortable with. If it happens to be the draft
-> thats been submitted later, then so be it!
->
-> IETF is an open standards body, in case you forgot that, and nothing,
-> is patented here. If you dont want others to address the same issues
-> that you've been trying to solve, then IETF isnt really the right place
-> for you to start with!
->
-> YOu should be patenting your ideas, but then, nobody else is going to
-> implement them.

I think Robert was only asking Zhang to compare...nothing else.

In any case, I think we can all agree about the openness of the IETF,
multiple solutions, community, etc..

Just to clarify, we have no IPR claims over any part of the ADD_PATH work.
Also, We have posted an update to the draft and plan to talk about it next
week.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

-> !> Ref: draft-walton-bgp-add-paths-03.txt

---

From: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:15:44 +0800

Hi, Alvaro

 I think this is an interesting topic because there are now three drafts addressing it
I recently looked through other two drafts,  one is yours and other is 
draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt,  and I think the goal is basically same but the 
mechanism to achieve it is very different. If you will, I'd like to discuss with you next
week at Paris if the meeting time is not enough to talk.

Cheers,
Zhang

---

From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:03:33 +0530

Hi Zhang,

Besides proposing a way to advertise multiple paths,
draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt also discusses how an implementation
should construct its AS_PATH wherein the path length is preserved and
sufficient information is provided to avoid loops, if its using equal cost
BGP paths for its forwarding.

Thanks,
Manav

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zhang Renhai" <[email-masked]>
To: "Alvaro Retana" <[email-masked]>; "Tulip Rasputin"
<[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Idr]
Re:Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

> Subject: Re: [Idr] Re:
Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: "Zhang Renhai" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re:Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:03:33 +0530
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi Zhang,

Besides proposing a way to advertise multiple paths,
draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt also discusses how an implementation
should construct its AS_PATH wherein the path length is preserved and
sufficient information is provided to avoid loops, if its using equal cost
BGP paths for its forwarding.

Thanks,
Manav

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zhang Renhai" <[email-masked]>
To: "Alvaro Retana" <[email-masked]>; "Tulip Rasputin"
<[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Idr]
Re:Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

> Subject: Re: [Idr] Re:
Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:15:44 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
To: Alvaro Retana <[email-masked]>, Tulip Rasputin <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi, Alvaro

Cheers,
Zhang

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alvaro Retana" <[email-masked]>
To: "Tulip Rasputin" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Commentsondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:16:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alvaro Retana <[email-masked]>
To: Tulip Rasputin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Commentson draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Tulip:

Thanks!

Alvaro.

To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:10:12 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] presentations
Sender: [email-masked]

Folks,

Those who will be presenting at the IETF please send your
presentations (if you did not do this already) as soon
as possible to Sue and myself.

Yakov.

From: "Dressage T. Controvert" <[email-masked]>
To: Idr <[email-masked]>
Subject: Borland Software and more. The best price.
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Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: [Idr] Re: draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt 
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:34:35 +0200
From: "Francois Le Faucheur \(flefauch\)" <[email-masked]>
To: "Yakov Rekhter" <[email-masked]>, "Pekka Savola" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], "Francois Le Faucheur \(flefauch\)" <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

Yakov, Pekka, 

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On 
>> Behalf Of Yakov Rekhter
>> Sent: vendredi 22 juillet 2005 20:05
>> To: Pekka Savola
>> Cc: [email-masked]; Yakov Rekhter; [email-masked]
>> Subject: [Idr] Re: draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt 
>> 
>> Pekka,
>> 
>> > Hi,
>> > 
>> > Just curious as it isn't on the agenda: what's the status of 
>> > draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt?
>> > 
>> > The last I heard was a call for implementation report(s) [and one 
>> > report] on February 9.

Although multiple implementations do exist (including at least two
commercially available), at this stage, there is still a single response
to the "implementation survey".

>> 
>> We are awaiting the implementation report from Francois.

I am under the assumption that an implementation report should be based
on details about more than one implementation. When (at least) one other
implementor provides an additional response to the "implementation
survey", I will draft/submit an implementation report.

If no other response is provided to the "implementation survey" in the
short future, I would suggest we consider publishing the
v6ops-bgp-tunnel document as Informational (instead of Standards), so it
can actually get published without the procedure hurdle of an
implementation report.

I welcome further guidance on how to progress this document.

Francois

>> 
>> Yakov.
>> 
>> > On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Yakov Rekhter wrote:
>> > > Here is the final agenda for the IDR WG meeting.
>> > >
>> > > 1. IDR Documents status update 5 mins
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves 
>> king, yet the
>> > Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
>> > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A 
>> Clash of Kings
>> 

To: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:05:02 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Re: draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt 
Sender: [email-masked]

Pekka,

> Hi,
> 
> Just curious as it isn't on the agenda: what's the status of 
> draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt?
> 
> The last I heard was a call for implementation report(s) [and one 
> report] on February 9.

We are awaiting the implementation report from Francois.

Yakov.

> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Yakov Rekhter wrote:
> > Here is the final agenda for the IDR WG meeting.
> >
> > 1. IDR Documents status update 5 mins
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 20:49:22 +0300 (EEST)
From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
To: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi,

Just curious as it isn't on the agenda: what's the status of 
draft-ooms-v6ops-bgp-tunnel-05.txt?

The last I heard was a call for implementation report(s) [and one 
report] on February 9.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Yakov Rekhter wrote:
> Here is the final agenda for the IDR WG meeting.
>
> 1. IDR Documents status update 5 mins

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:51:26 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] final agenda
Sender: [email-masked]

Folks,

Here is the final agenda for the IDR WG meeting.

1. IDR Documents status update 5 mins

2. draft-li-as-hopcount-01.txt 30 mins

3. draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-01.txt 15 mins

4. draft-walton-bgp-add-paths-03.txt
   draft-walton-bgp-route-oscillation-stop-01.txt 20 mins

5. draft-dubois-bgp-pm-reqs-01.txt 15 mins

6. draft-hares-bose-dynamic_as-01.txt 10 mins

7. draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-01.txt 10 mins

8. draft-kapoor-nalawade-idr-bgp-ssa-02.txt
   draft-nalawade-kapoor-tunnel-safi-03.txt. 15 mins

Sue & Yakov.

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:12:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tulip Rasputin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Commentson draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Cc: 
Sender: [email-masked]

Robert,

!> 

Hard Luck!

Tulip

!> 

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:04:55 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
To: Manav Bhatia <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Re: Comments on draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi, Manav
 
 I can't find the draft you mentioned below, are you sure the name is correct?

Thanks 
Zhang

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:13 PM
Subject: Comments on draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

> 
> Hi Zhang,
> 
> There are some things that are not clear to me as I went through your draft.
> 
> [1] The Entire RR capability that you talk of enables a client to inform the
> RR that it can "handle withdrawn routes segment that contains a NEXT_HOP".
> But how does this help? Say the RR has multiple ways to reach a destination.
> If it tries to announce this reachability information multiple times, then
> the subsequent UPDATEs will be considered as implicit withdrawals for the
> previous announcements. Thus, you need a way to tell your remote BGP peer
> that the UPDATE that is being sent now is not an implicit withdrawal, but a
> regular UPDATE that it needs to append and not replace.
> 
> I don't see this discussed anywhere in the document.
> 
> [2] If you ever want BGP to load balance or advertise multiple paths then
> you need to consider the AS_PATHs. Would the RR in your case advertise
> multiple paths only if *all* the path attributes are same or would it also
> do this given different, but equivalent, path attributes? An example of the
> latter case would be two paths with AS_PATHs {X Y Z} and {X A Z}
> respectively. It's the latter case that's more realistic and hence more
> interesting.
> 
> We presented a similar idea (draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt) in the
> IDR WG that does this and takes care of all the scenarios that I just
> mentioned. You can look at the slides at
> http://www1.ietf.org/proceedings_new/04nov/slides/idr-1/sld1.htm
> 
> We are working on updating our original document and should be posting it
> soon.
> 
> Thanks,
> Manav
> 
> --
> Manav Bhatia
> Member of Technical Staff
> Riverstone Networks, Inc.
> http://www.riverstonenet.com 
> 

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:16:52 -0700
From: Robert Raszuk <[email-masked]>
Organization: Signature: http://www.employees.org/~raszuk/sig/
To: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Comments on	draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Cc: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Zhang,

Would you be so kind to comment what proposed in your draft has not 
already been addressed in our ADD_PATHs proposal RR functionality wise ?

Ref: draft-walton-bgp-add-paths-03.txt

Thx,
R.

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:44:11 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: complementarity[Idr] Re: Comments ondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
To: Manav Bhatia <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

complementarity:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Zhang Renhai'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Idr] Re: Comments ondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

> 
> Hi Zhang,
> 
> !> The AS_PATH attribute is not related to the capability, in 
> !> fact, the Next Hop
> !> attribute is the key factor, the client can make the load 
> !> balancing only among the 
> !> different next hop, multiple paths with the same next hop 
> !> have no meaning to 
> 
> I am talking about multiple paths with different NEXT_HOPs.
> 
> For example, two routes with the following attributes:
> 
> AS_PATH {X, Y, Z} NEXT_HOP N1
> and 
> AS_PATH {A, B, Z} NEXT_HOP N2
> 
> You need a way to advertise this information.

[complementarity] Using the different UPDATE packets.

>  
> !> loading balancing and only one route is reflected to the 
> !> client, otherwise, all routes
> !> will be advertised to the client, wrt which routes are used 
> !> to performing load balancing, 
> !> it's the local dicision of the client.
> 
> If a BGP peer is receiving the above two paths and is splitting the load or
> is doing multipath using N1 and N2, then it MUST inform its downstream peers
> about the AS_PATHs that will be used when forwarding the data. You have to
> do that to avoid AS Path loops.
> 
> Manav
> 
> !> 
> !> > 
> !> > We presented a similar idea 
> !> (draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt) in the
> !> > IDR WG that does this and takes care of all the scenarios 
> !> that I just
> !> > mentioned. You can look at the slides at
> !> > http://www1.ietf.org/proceedings_new/04nov/slides/idr-1/sld1.htm
> !> > 
> !> I will study your draft, thanks.
> !> 
> !> Regards,
> !> Zhang
> !> 
> !> > We are working on updating our original document and 
> !> should be posting it
> !> > soon.
> !> > 
> !> > Thanks,
> !> > Manav
> !> > 
> !> > --
> !> > Manav Bhatia
> !> > Member of Technical Staff
> !> > Riverstone Networks, Inc.
> !> > http://www.riverstonenet.com 
> !> > 
> !> 
> !> 
> !> 
> !> _______________________________________________
> !> Idr mailing list
> !> [email-masked]
> !> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
> 

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:39:23 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Re: Comments ondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
To: Manav Bhatia <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi, Manav

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Zhang Renhai'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Idr] Re: Comments ondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

> 
> Hi Zhang,
> 
> !> The AS_PATH attribute is not related to the capability, in 
> !> fact, the Next Hop
> !> attribute is the key factor, the client can make the load 
> !> balancing only among the 
> !> different next hop, multiple paths with the same next hop 
> !> have no meaning to 
> 
> I am talking about multiple paths with different NEXT_HOPs.
> 
> For example, two routes with the following attributes:
> 
> AS_PATH {X, Y, Z} NEXT_HOP N1
> and 
> AS_PATH {A, B, Z} NEXT_HOP N2
> 
> You need a way to advertise this information.
According the rule I mentioned in the last mail, the RR will reflect the two
routes, the key change on the RR about this capability is that the RR doesn't
make the routes selection between the routes with different next hop.So I
think there is no contradiction with your point on this aspect.
>  
> !> loading balancing and only one route is reflected to the 
> !> client, otherwise, all routes
> !> will be advertised to the client, wrt which routes are used 
> !> to performing load balancing, 
> !> it's the local dicision of the client.
> 
> If a BGP peer is receiving the above two paths and is splitting the load or
> is doing multipath using N1 and N2, then it MUST inform its downstream peers
> about the AS_PATHs that will be used when forwarding the data. You have to
> do that to avoid AS Path loops.
Sure, I guess your concern is that when forwording the routes performing the load
balancing as one route, the AS_PATH attribute must be changed consequently, e.g., changing 
some AS from sequence to set, correct? Indeed, the AS_PATH should be considered
carefully.
If this is nacessary in the draft, I will cover it in the future version.

Thanks,
Zhang

> 
> Manav
> 
> !> 
> !> > 
> !> > We presented a similar idea 
> !> (draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt) in the
> !> > IDR WG that does this and takes care of all the scenarios 
> !> that I just
> !> > mentioned. You can look at the slides at
> !> > http://www1.ietf.org/proceedings_new/04nov/slides/idr-1/sld1.htm
> !> > 
> !> I will study your draft, thanks.
> !> 
> !> Regards,
> !> Zhang
> !> 
> !> > We are working on updating our original document and 
> !> should be posting it
> !> > soon.
> !> > 
> !> > Thanks,
> !> > Manav
> !> > 
> !> > --
> !> > Manav Bhatia
> !> > Member of Technical Staff
> !> > Riverstone Networks, Inc.
> !> > http://www.riverstonenet.com 
> !> > 
> !> 
> !> 
> !> 
> !> _______________________________________________
> !> Idr mailing list
> !> [email-masked]
> !> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
> 

From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Zhang Renhai'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Idr] Re: Comments ondraft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:55:48 +0530
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi Zhang,

!> The AS_PATH attribute is not related to the capability, in 
!> fact, the Next Hop
!> attribute is the key factor, the client can make the load 
!> balancing only among the 
!> different next hop, multiple paths with the same next hop 
!> have no meaning to 

I am talking about multiple paths with different NEXT_HOPs.

For example, two routes with the following attributes:

AS_PATH {X, Y, Z} NEXT_HOP N1
and 
AS_PATH {A, B, Z} NEXT_HOP N2

You need a way to advertise this information.
 
!> loading balancing and only one route is reflected to the 
!> client, otherwise, all routes
!> will be advertised to the client, wrt which routes are used 
!> to performing load balancing, 
!> it's the local dicision of the client.

If a BGP peer is receiving the above two paths and is splitting the load or
is doing multipath using N1 and N2, then it MUST inform its downstream peers
about the AS_PATHs that will be used when forwarding the data. You have to
do that to avoid AS Path loops.

Manav

!> 
!> > 
!> > We presented a similar idea 
!> (draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt) in the
!> > IDR WG that does this and takes care of all the scenarios 
!> that I just
!> > mentioned. You can look at the slides at
!> > http://www1.ietf.org/proceedings_new/04nov/slides/idr-1/sld1.htm
!> > 
!> I will study your draft, thanks.
!> 
!> Regards,
!> Zhang
!> 
!> > We are working on updating our original document and 
!> should be posting it
!> > soon.
!> > 
!> > Thanks,
!> > Manav
!> > 
!> > --
!> > Manav Bhatia
!> > Member of Technical Staff
!> > Riverstone Networks, Inc.
!> > http://www.riverstonenet.com 
!> > 
!> 
!> 
!> 
!> _______________________________________________
!> Idr mailing list
!> [email-masked]
!> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:41:44 +0800
From: Zhang Renhai <[email-masked]>
To: Manav Bhatia <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Re: Comments on draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi,  Manav

 Please see inline. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:13 PM
Subject: Comments on draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt

> 
> Hi Zhang,
> 
> There are some things that are not clear to me as I went through your draft.
> 
> [1] The Entire RR capability that you talk of enables a client to inform the
> RR that it can "handle withdrawn routes segment that contains a NEXT_HOP".
> But how does this help? Say the RR has multiple ways to reach a destination.
> If it tries to announce this reachability information multiple times, then
> the subsequent UPDATEs will be considered as implicit withdrawals for the
> previous announcements. Thus, you need a way to tell your remote BGP peer
> that the UPDATE that is being sent now is not an implicit withdrawal, but a
> regular UPDATE that it needs to append and not replace.

Yes, here a method is need to make the subsequent UPDATEs not an implicit
withdrawl,  prevously I thought of a method, that is , for the client with which
RR has negotiated the capability, there will be no the implicit withdrawals any 
more, instead, when updating the routes , RR should first advertises the withdraw
explicitly, I don't think it a good method lately. So, as you say, a indication can
be included in the subsequent UPDATEs when reflecting more than one routes
to a destination, and this should be coverd in the future version, but the mechanism 
is still not clear now, anyone is encouraged to contribute this.

> 
> I don't see this discussed anywhere in the document.
> 
> [2] If you ever want BGP to load balance or advertise multiple paths then
> you need to consider the AS_PATHs. Would the RR in your case advertise
> multiple paths only if *all* the path attributes are same or would it also
> do this given different, but equivalent, path attributes? An example of the
> latter case would be two paths with AS_PATHs {X Y Z} and {X A Z}
> respectively. It's the latter case that's more realistic and hence more
> interesting.
The AS_PATH attribute is not related to the capability, in fact, the Next Hop
attribute is the key factor, the client can make the load balancing only among the 
different next hop, multiple paths with the same next hop have no meaning to 
loading balancing and only one route is reflected to the client, otherwise, all routes
will be advertised to the client, wrt which routes are used to performing load balancing, 
it's the local dicision of the client.

> 
> We presented a similar idea (draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt) in the
> IDR WG that does this and takes care of all the scenarios that I just
> mentioned. You can look at the slides at
> http://www1.ietf.org/proceedings_new/04nov/slides/idr-1/sld1.htm
> 
I will study your draft, thanks.

Regards,
Zhang

> We are working on updating our original document and should be posting it
> soon.
> 
> Thanks,
> Manav
> 
> --
> Manav Bhatia
> Member of Technical Staff
> Riverstone Networks, Inc.
> http://www.riverstonenet.com 
> 

From: "Manav Bhatia" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:43:00 +0530
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Comments on draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi Zhang,

There are some things that are not clear to me as I went through your draft.

[1] The Entire RR capability that you talk of enables a client to inform the
RR that it can "handle withdrawn routes segment that contains a NEXT_HOP".
But how does this help? Say the RR has multiple ways to reach a destination.
If it tries to announce this reachability information multiple times, then
the subsequent UPDATEs will be considered as implicit withdrawals for the
previous announcements. Thus, you need a way to tell your remote BGP peer
that the UPDATE that is being sent now is not an implicit withdrawal, but a
regular UPDATE that it needs to append and not replace.

I don't see this discussed anywhere in the document.

[2] If you ever want BGP to load balance or advertise multiple paths then
you need to consider the AS_PATHs. Would the RR in your case advertise
multiple paths only if *all* the path attributes are same or would it also
do this given different, but equivalent, path attributes? An example of the
latter case would be two paths with AS_PATHs {X Y Z} and {X A Z}
respectively. It's the latter case that's more realistic and hence more
interesting.

We presented a similar idea (draft-bhatia-ecmp-routes-in-bgp-01.txt) in the
IDR WG that does this and takes care of all the scenarios that I just
mentioned. You can look at the slides at
http://www1.ietf.org/proceedings_new/04nov/slides/idr-1/sld1.htm

We are working on updating our original document and should be posting it
soon.

Thanks,
Manav

--
Manav Bhatia
Member of Technical Staff
Riverstone Networks, Inc.
http://www.riverstonenet.com 

From: The IESG <[email-masked]>
To: IETF-Announce <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:58:25 -0400
Cc: idr chair <[email-masked]>, idr mailing list <[email-masked]>, idr chair <[email-masked]>, Internet Architecture Board <[email-masked]>, RFC Editor <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] Protocol Action: 'BGP Extended Communities Attribute' to  Proposed Standard 
Sender: [email-masked]

The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'BGP Extended Communities Attribute '
   <draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Bill Fenner and Alex Zinin.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt

Technical Summary
 
   Extended Communities are an extension to BGP-4 which may be used
   to provide flexible control over the distribution of routing
   information.  They may also be used to distribute additional 
   details associated with routing information (e.g., link bandwidth).
 
Working Group Summary
 
   The Working Group supports publication of this document.

Protocol Quality
 
   Bill Fenner reviewed this spec for the IESG.  Seven interoperable
   implementations were described in the implementation survey.

RFC Editor Note

Please add the following citation to the normative references section:

[RFC4020] Kompella, K. and A. Zinin, "Early IANA Allocation of
Standards Track Code Points", BCP 100, RFC 4020, February 2005.

and change the reference to [kompella-zinin] in paragraph 5
of section 7 to [RFC4020].

To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:17:38 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] updated IDR WG agenda
Sender: [email-masked]

Folks,

Here is the updated agenda.

1. IDR Documents status update 5 mins

2. draft-li-as-hopcount-01.txt 30 mins

3. draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt 15 mins

4. draft-dubois-bgp-pm-reqs-01.txt 15 mins

5. draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-01.txt 10 mins

6. draft-hares-bose-dynamic_as-01.txt 10 mins

7. draft-walton-bgp-add-paths-03.txt
   draft-walton-bgp-route-oscillation-stop-01.txt 20 mins

8. draft-kapoor-nalawade-idr-bgp-ssa-02.txt
   draft-nalawade-kapoor-tunnel-safi-03.txt. 15 mins

Yakov.

To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:12:30 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] IDR WG agenda
Sender: [email-masked]

Folks,

Here is the agenda:

1. IDR Documents status update 5 mins

2. draft-li-as-hopcount-01.txt 30 mins

3. draft-zhang-idr-bgp-entire-routes-reflect-00.txt 15 mins

4. draft-dubois-bgp-pm-reqs-01.txt 15 mins

5. draft-ietf-idr-bgp-multisession-01.txt 10 mins

6. draft-hares-bose-dynamic_as-01.txt 10 mins

Yakov.

To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:41:06 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

Folks,

The only changes from the previous version are (a) version number,
(b) dates.

Yakov.
------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:50:02 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
To:      [email-masked]
cc:      [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt 

- --NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF
.

	Title		: Cooperative Route Filtering Capability for BGP-4
	Author(s)	: E. Chen, Y. Rekhter
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2005-7-14
	
This document defines a BGP-based mechanism that allows a BGP speaker
   to send to its BGP peer a set of route filters that the peer would
   use to constrain/filter its outbound routing updates to the speaker.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt

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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: [Idr] Confed ids
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:39:48 -0400
From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: "Maneesh Chawla" <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Cc: 
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Maneesh:

=20

Pratik Bose and I been working on BGP capabilities to address=20

Something in the same areas.  I'm preparing new=20

Internet drafts for publication today (they are -01 drafts).=20

=20

This new work provide you a way to pre-negotiate any peer changes.

Here' the basic concdept;

=20

1)     A peer says I'm AS 10 and I may go to AS 20,40,60 or 70

a.      .  You may then shift shift internally via a dynamic capability
at your leisure. =20

b.      That's the part about "we decide" to move R1] - you can
pre-configure

Anything you might possibility go to with those remote peers.

2)     You send a dynamic capability exchange indicating you are
changing ASes

3)     Both peers switch

a.      Routes are updated with the new AS

=20

After the switch occurs (the peering session never stops), the peer
sending

the routes can update the AS path (to the different confederation -
depends on the nesting.)

=20

It provides choices: The routes may be immediately updated, updated in
bunches, or never updated.

(The never updated is to allow a quick fail-over and fail-back without
re-negotiating).

=20

The drafts are:=20

*        Dynamic AS renumbering, and

*        Dynamic AS Switching at AS Confederation Edge

=20

As I'm in the middle of fighting with the IETF draft publishing format.

May I send you the draft on Monday morning as I post them.

=20

Sue

  _____ =20

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Maneesh Chawla
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:54 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Confed ids

=20

Hi All,

          I have a question : Say , two routers, R1 and R2, are in the
same confed. Now, when we decide to move R1 to a different confed and
just change the confed id of R1 without changing the rest of the configs
, the  peering should not ideally happen since here we will be trying to
peer with an internal AS of R2's confed instead of R2's confed itself.=20

    Is there a way to carry the confed id also in any of the messages so
that we can stop a peering between the internal ASs(as in the above
case) if the confed id's are different ? or do we just depend on the
administrator ?=20

=20

Sorry if the question has already  been answered , I couldnt locate it
in the archives.

=20

TIA

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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maneesh:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pratik Bose and I been working on =
BGP capabilities
to address <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Something in the same areas. =
&nbsp;I&#8217;m
preparing new <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Internet drafts for publication =
today (they
are -01 drafts). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This new work provide you a way to
pre-negotiate any peer changes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here&#8217; the basic =
concdept;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>A peer says I&#8217;m AS 10 and I may go to AS 20,40,60 or =
70<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a.<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>.&nbsp; You may then shift shift internally via a dynamic
capability at your leisure.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b.<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>That&#8217;s the part about &#8220;we decide&#8221; to move =
R1] &#8211;
you can pre-configure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.25in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Anything you might possibility go to with those remote =
peers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>You send a dynamic capability exchange indicating you are =
changing ASes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Both peers switch<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a.<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Routes are updated with the new =
AS<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>After the switch occurs (the =
peering session
never stops), the peer sending<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>the routes can update the AS path =
(to the
different confederation &#8211; depends on the =
nesting.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It provides choices: The routes may =
be
immediately updated, updated in bunches, or never =
updated.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>(The never updated is to allow a =
quick
fail-over and fail-back without =
re-negotiating).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The drafts are: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DSymbol><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<font size=3D1
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dynamic
AS renumbering, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><a
name=3D"_Toc107797036"><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DSymbol><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:navy'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:
Ignore'>&middot;<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]>Dynamic AS Switching at AS =
Confederation
Edge</a><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>As I&#8217;m in the middle of fighting with the IETF draft =
publishing
format.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>May I send you the draft on Monday morning as I post =
them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Sue</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Maneesh Chawla<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, July 17, =
2005 5:54
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> [email-masked]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Idr] Confed =
ids</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have a
question : Say , two routers, R1 and R2, are in the same confed. Now, =
when we
decide to move R1 to a different confed and just change the confed id of =
R1
without changing the rest of the configs , the&nbsp; peering should not =
ideally
happen since here we will be trying to peer with an internal AS of R2's =
confed
instead of R2's confed itself. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is there a way to carry the confed id also in =
any of
the messages so that we can stop a peering between the internal ASs(as =
in the
above case)&nbsp;if the confed id's are different ? or do we just depend =
on the
administrator ? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Sorry if the question has already&nbsp; been answered , I =
couldnt
locate it in the archives.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>TIA<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

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Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:23:52 +0530
From: Maneesh Chawla <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] Confed ids
Reply-To: Maneesh Chawla <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

--===============1156718492==
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Hi All,
 I have a question : Say , two routers, R1 and R2, are in the same confed.=
=20
Now, when we decide to move R1 to a different confed and just change the=20
confed id of R1 without changing the rest of the configs , the peering=20
should not ideally happen since here we will be trying to peer with an=20
internal AS of R2's confed instead of R2's confed itself.=20
 Is there a way to carry the confed id also in any of the messages so that=
=20
we can stop a peering between the internal ASs(as in the above case) if the=
=20
confed id's are different ? or do we just depend on the administrator ?=20
 Sorry if the question has already been answered , I couldnt locate it in=
=20
the archives.
 TIA

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<div>Hi All,</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have a questi=
on : Say , two routers, R1 and R2, are in the same confed. Now, when we dec=
ide to move R1 to a different confed and just change the confed id of R1 wi=
thout changing the rest of the configs , the&nbsp; peering should not ideal=
ly happen since here we will be trying to peer with an internal AS of R2's =
confed instead of R2's confed itself.=20
</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is there a way to carry the confed id also in any o=
f the messages so that we can stop a peering between the internal ASs(as in=
 the above case)&nbsp;if the confed id's are different ? or do we just depe=
nd on the administrator ?=20
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Sorry if the question has already&nbsp; been answered , I couldnt loca=
te it in the archives.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>TIA</div>

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To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:50:03 -0400
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-05.txt 
Sender: [email-masked]

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Definitions of Managed Objects for the Fourth
                          Version of Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4), 
                          Second Version
	Author(s)	: J. Haas, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-05.txt
	Pages		: 98
	Date		: 2005-7-14
	
This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB)
   for use with network management protocols in TCP/IP-based internets.
   In particular, this MIB defines objects that facilitate the manage-
   ment of the Border Gateway Protocol Version 4 (BGP4).

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2-05.txt

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To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:50:02 -0400
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt 
Sender: [email-masked]

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Cooperative Route Filtering Capability for BGP-4
	Author(s)	: E. Chen, Y. Rekhter
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2005-7-14
	
This document defines a BGP-based mechanism that allows a BGP speaker
   to send to its BGP peer a set of route filters that the peer would
   use to constrain/filter its outbound routing updates to the speaker.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
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type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt".

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or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

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	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-route-filter-12.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

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--OtherAccess--

--NextPart
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--NextPart--

To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:50:01 -0400
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-10.txt 
Sender: [email-masked]

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: BGP support for four-octet AS number space
	Author(s)	: Q. Vohra, E. Chen
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-10.txt
	Pages		: 9
	Date		: 2005-7-14
	
Currently the Autonomous System number is encoded in BGP [BGP] as a
   two-octets field. This document describes extensions to BGP to carry
   the Autonomous System number as a four-octets field.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-10.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
[email-masked] with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.  
You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce 
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Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
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type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-10.txt".

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or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

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	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
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	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-10.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-10.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

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--OtherAccess--

--NextPart
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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--NextPart--

From: "Espionage V. Weeder" <[email-masked]>
To: Idr <[email-masked]>
Subject: If you are interested in brands like Microsoft, Macromedia, Adobe, Corel etc.
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:29:41 -0500
Importance: Normal

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0026_E1D754C5.1E3004CB
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------=_NextPart_000_0026_E1D754C5.1E3004CB--

To: "DUBOIS Nicolas ROSI/DAS/ARI" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Idr] IDR WG agenda 
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:09:23 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], "'Yakov Rekhter'" <[email-masked]>, FONDEVIOLE Benoit RD-CORE <[email-masked]>, DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Nicolas,

> Hi Sue, Yakov,
> 
> Would it be possible to have a 10 min slot at the next IETF GROw meeting in
> order to present an updated version (to be posted soon) of the following
> draft: 
>   
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dubois-bgp-pm-reqs-01.txt 

You have 15 mins (10 mins for the presentation and 5 mins for
questions and answers).

> We also requested a slot in the GROw working group. We do not know if it is
> better to present the draft in grow, in IDR or in both ?

You should certainly present it in IDR. With respect to presenting
it in GROW, I do not have an opinion on this.

Yakov.

> 
> Best regards, 
>   
> Nicolas, Bruno and Benoît 
> 	
> Nicolas Dubois
> Tel :  0144442817	
> 
>  
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] De la 
> > part de Yakov Rekhter
> > Envoyé : lundi 20 juin 2005 15:41
> > À : [email-masked]
> > Cc : [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > Objet : [Idr] IDR WG agenda
> > 
> > Folks,
> >  
> > Its about time to start thinking about agenda items for the 
> > next IETF. Please forward any IDR agenda items you might have 
> > to me and Sue.
> > 
> > And if you plan to make a presentation, please also keep in 
> > mind the rule "no document - no time slot".
> > 
> > Sue & Yakov.
> > 

From: "DUBOIS Nicolas ROSI/DAS/ARI" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Yakov Rekhter'" <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Idr] IDR WG agenda
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:51:17 +0200
Cc: [email-masked], DECRAENE Bruno RD-CORE <[email-masked]>, FONDEVIOLE Benoit RD-CORE <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi Sue, Yakov,

Would it be possible to have a 10 min slot at the next IETF GROw meeting in
order to present an updated version (to be posted soon) of the following
draft: 
  
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dubois-bgp-pm-reqs-01.txt 
  
We also requested a slot in the GROw working group. We do not know if it is
better to present the draft in grow, in IDR or in both ?

Best regards, 
  
Nicolas, Bruno and Benoît 
	
Nicolas Dubois
Tel :  0144442817	

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] De la 
> part de Yakov Rekhter
> Envoyé : lundi 20 juin 2005 15:41
> À : [email-masked]
> Cc : [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Objet : [Idr] IDR WG agenda
> 
> Folks,
>  
> Its about time to start thinking about agenda items for the 
> next IETF. Please forward any IDR agenda items you might have 
> to me and Sue.
> 
> And if you plan to make a presentation, please also keep in 
> mind the rule "no document - no time slot".
> 
> Sue & Yakov.
> 

To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:55:38 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Idr] revised draft draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

Folks,

The revised draft reflects the comments received from the IESG
as well as the information from the implementation report.

Yakov.
------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:50:02 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
To:      [email-masked]
cc:      [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt 

- --NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF
.

	Title		: BGP Extended Communities Attribute
	Author(s)	: Y. Rekhter, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2005-7-6
	
This document describes the "extended community" BGP-4 attribute.
   This attribute provides a mechanism for labeling information carried
   in BGP-4. These labels can be used to control the distribution of
   this information, or for other applications.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
[email-masked] with the word unsubscribe in the body of the mess
age.  
You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce 
to change your subscription settings.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	[email-masked].
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

- --NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

- --OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt

- --OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

- --OtherAccess--

- --NextPart
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

- --NextPart--

------- End of Forwarded Message

To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:50:02 -0400
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [Idr] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt 
Sender: [email-masked]

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: BGP Extended Communities Attribute
	Author(s)	: Y. Rekhter, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2005-7-6
	
This document describes the "extended community" BGP-4 attribute.
   This attribute provides a mechanism for labeling information carried
   in BGP-4. These labels can be used to control the distribution of
   this information, or for other applications.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to 
[email-masked] with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.  
You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce 
to change your subscription settings.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	[email-masked].
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server";
	server="[email-masked]"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ext-communities-09.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

--OtherAccess--

--NextPart
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--NextPart--

From: "Whizzes H. Sighted" <[email-masked]>
To: Idr <[email-masked]>
Subject: Cheapest and best OEM software here!
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:20:17 -0500
Importance: Normal

<html>
<body>
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