Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Atlanta ieprep Agenda

From: "Nguyen, An" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:54:32 -0500

Bill,

Have you been to the NANOG web site lately? They are several presentations
on QoS given from the big guns on the last NANOG meeting. I think those guys
have problems because they choose to address it. They should copy your
network architecture as a good model when it comes to providing VoiceIP with
QoS.

Regards,

An

http://www.nanog.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Woodcock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 3:42 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ieprep] Atlanta ieprep Agenda

      On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 [email-masked] wrote:
    > If things being discussed/proposed have very significant implications
in the
    > operational IP network world, I would certainly like to hear about
them. I
    > don't profess to know a lot about the IP world, but I can assure you
that I
    > don't want to push for anything that would be extremely hard to do,
since I
    > realize that it is unlikely to ever be completed.

This is what we've all been telling you, over, and over, and over.

QoS was a fad for about eighteen months, several years ago.  It was
excruciatingly painful, had exactly the opposite effect that its
protagonists predicted, and wasted a huge amount of everyone's effort.
Thankfully, it's well behind us, and we have a functional network again.
Except that you're attempting to bring it back to life, and staggering
around under the weight of its decaying corpse, flapping its arms and
crowing "It MUST live again!"

Yes, trashing our networks with QoS again would have significant effects.

                                -Bill

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---

From: Bill Woodcock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:10:31 -0800 (PST)

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Bill Woodcock wrote:
    > There were no talks on QoS.

Oh, and while I'm at it, there were no talks on QoS at RIPE, APRICOT,
AfNOG, or NordNOG, either.

                                -Bill

---

From: Bill Woodcock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:08:42 -0800 (PST)

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Nguyen, An wrote:
    > Have you been to the NANOG web site lately?

Uh, yes, I have.  http://www.nanog.org/pc.html

    > They are several presentations on QoS given from the big guns on the
    > last NANOG meeting.

No there weren't.  I was there, and I approved each talk.  There were no
talks on QoS.

We had talks on v6, BGP stability, security, HA, metrics, tools, and
complexity reduction.  No talks on QoS.

If QoS were taken seriously by anyone, we'd have had talks on QoS.  I
think it's notable that there were four different talks on v6, and none on
QoS.  Think about the number of people for whom v6 is actually real.
Perhaps that gives you some idea of the degree to which QoS is a dead
issue.

                                -Bill