Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Ieprep] Power Outages - US NE 14aug03]

From: Rex Buddenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Aug 2003 09:00:18 -0700

Probably worth distinguishing between core and periphery.  An ISP will
consider the core to be it's core routers and the fiber between them
plus the NOC.  
	The periphery would include residential installations (cable modems and
LAN/computers attached.
	In between there's room for some haggling about what's core or not --
cable head end?

All ISPs of any scale that I've seen have backup power -- usually a
generator out back -- for the NOC.  Ditto for the core routers.  That
leaves the line huts that Woody mentioned last night.  If they're backed
up, the the core is likely to stay up.  At least until the diesels run
out of fuel.  
	Having the core up doesn't mean the ISP has any customers though.  If
my ISP has its head end backed up (likely), then is the local fanout
backed at the nodes?  And finally, can I keep things up at the house?  I
have a cable modem, a local router and hub and the end systems that are
attached.  Alas, only the laptop has backup power.  The router and cable
modem don't require much amperage but if we're going to build robust
systems those things need some kind of backup.  

On Fri, 2003-08-15 at 08:03, RJ Atkinson wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3153347.stm
> 
> 
> BBC News reports the Internet fared well:
> ------------------------------------------
> The net has survived the US power outage largely unscathed.
> 
> Firms monitoring the internet's core cables said the blackout had not 
> slowed traffic or caused any significant delays.
> 
> Experts said the net's structure helped it cope with the shutdown of 
> networks in the affected areas.
> 
> Some websites were briefly troubled by an increase in visitors looking 
> for news about the power problems but they easily coped with the surge.
> 
> ...more online at above URL...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ieprep mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep

-- 
b

_______________________________________________
Ieprep mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep

---

From: RJ Atkinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:28:41 -0400

On Friday, Aug 15, 2003, at 12:00 America/Montreal, Rex Buddenberg 
> 	In between there's room for some haggling about what's core or not --

	At least in the case of Cox Cable (US), their headends are
built out to the same standards as a Class-5 telephone switching station
-- with big battery banks and an on-site backup generator.
In fact, there is normally a class-5 PSTN switch as part of their
installation, since in most markets they are a CLEC offering
residential PSTN (not over VoIP, but PSTN directly over HFC).

Generally speaking, if there are active amps/lasers between the head-end
and the customer, lack of power to those amps/lasers would mean that 
folks
downstream of the amp/laser would be unlikely to remain connected.
Not all HFC deployments in the US include active components downstream
from the headend.

Ran

---

From: "James M. Polk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:32:53 -0500

>systems those things need some kind of backup.

That's why I've invested so much in APC (I have 9 UPSs throughout the 
house). They last between 15 minutes and 12 hours, depending on what 
they're attached to -- and can take on Texas-sized lightning storms ;-)

cheers,
James

                                *******************
                    The answer is "42", what's the question?

---

From: Rex Buddenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: 18 Aug 2003 08:10:37 -0700

But only in Hitchikers Guide.

The answer is 8 days.  The question was how long was USS Cole without
power.

Yes, I have a lab full of UPSs too.  Small routers and hubs are in the
same league as laptops -- 50-100 watts.  

I think the technology to look at for emergency services and distributed
power is fuel cells.  Unfortunately, the commercial industry hasn't yet
found the right configuration:
	- drive your car.  Too big for our needs.
	- drive your cellphone.  Too small.
	- drive your laptop -- probably about right.  We've been plumbing the
vendors for something in a 19" rack configuration that'd drive a router
for a few days.  Fuel cells of this ilk come with a UPS to bridge the
gap from when the lights go out and when the cell gets up to speed. 
>From there on, endurance is limited by the size of the hydrogen bottle. 
This technology looks promising but is pretty juvenile as yet.  

-- 
b