Subject: Re: recommendation against publication of draft-cerpa-necp-02.txt

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:41:43 -0600 (MDT)

> From: Jon Crowcroft <[email-masked]>

> ...
> its the 21st century:
> f you dont use end2end crypto, then you  gotta expect people to optimize
> their resources to give you the best service money can buy for the least
> they have to spend.
> ...

That's an interesting idea.  People might eventually finally start
using end2end crpyto not for privacy or authnetication where they
really care about either, but for performance and correctness, to
defend against the ISP's who find it cheaper to give you the front
page of last week's newspaper instead of today's.

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:00:21 -0700

> page of last week's newspaper instead of today's.

and, since we're into exaggeration and hyperbole, i imagine you won't
complain about paying seven times as much for connectivity.

all these oh so brilliant folk on the anti-cacheing crusade should be
sentenced to live in a significantly less privileged country for a year,
where dialup ppp costs per megabyte of international traffic and an
engineer's salary is $100-200 per month.  we are spoiled brats.

randy

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From: Magnus Danielson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:20:26 +0200

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: recommendation against publication of draft-cerpa-necp-02.txt
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:41:43 -0600 (MDT)

> page of last week's newspaper instead of today's.

Maybe this is a reason for these ISPs to filter such traffic out...

Cheers,
Magnus

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From: "Gary E. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT)

Yo Randy!

> engineer's salary is $100-200 per month.  we are spoiled brats.

Been there, done that, the LEGALLY required cache did NOT help.  I 
bypassed it whenever possible.  Cacheing is NOT the answer.  

Reports from the recent Adelaide meeting confirm this.

RGDS
GARY
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Gary E. Miller Rellim 20340 Empire Ave, Suite E-3, Bend, OR 97701
	[email-masked]  Tel:+1(541)382-8588 Fax: +1(541)382-8676

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From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:15:36 -0400

> page of last week's newspaper instead of today's.

or ISPs might start penalizing encrypted packets.

I just don't buy the argument that we can solve these problems by
adding more complexity.  That's like saying that a country can 
get more security by building more planes, tanks, bombs, etc.
It might work, but then again, it might fuel an arms race.

Keith

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From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:22:36 -0400

> engineer's salary is $100-200 per month. 

and as long as we're talking about just deserts...all of those ISPs that
put an interception proxy between their dialup customers and the rest 
of the Internet should be required to put another interception proxy
on the other side of their international links, between those clients 
and the ISP's local server customers.  that way, they will do the same 
degree of harm to their own business customers that they are doing 
to other ISPs' business customers.

Keith

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From: John Martin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 07:45:20 +0200

There has been a lot of discussion about the problems associated with 
so-called "interception proxies". This discussion is very much within the 
charter of the WREC WG. In fact, we even have a current draft whose sole 
purpose is to document such problems.

The known problems draft is at: draft-ietf-wrec-known-prob-01.txt

This is the first of two very useful documents being produced by WREC; the 
first, a taxonomy of terminology is available as: 
draft-ietf-wrec-taxonomy-03.txt; I would suggest you read this first.

To join WREC, use the following:
	mailto:[email-masked]?Subject=subscribe

...or send a note to [email-masked] with "subscribe" in the subject.

I suggest we move this particular discussion to WREC.

Rgds,
John
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