Subject: Re: Blue Sheet Etiquette

From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:42:43 -0500

From:  Robert Moskowitz <[email-masked]>
Message-Id:  <5.1.0.14.2.20011214093922.026ee218@localhost>
Date:  Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:11:51 -0500
In-Reply-To:  <[email-masked]>

>At 04:29 PM 12/13/2001 -0500, borderlt wrote:
>
>There is a practical side to this.  Note that John saw that the sheet was 
>hung in the queue.  This can result in people not getting the sheet to 
>sign, and then the next meeting not getting a big enough room......

IEEE 802.11 / 802.15 meetings have solved this by attaching a helium
ballon to their equivalent of the blue sheets. That way everyone can
see where they are and if they have gotten hung up. Due to scaling
problems, they are planning to change to using bar codes.

From:  Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Message-Id:  <[email-masked]>
Date:  Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:55:03 -0700
In-Reply-To:  <[email-masked]>
References:  <[email-masked]>

>At 08:45 PM 12/13/2001, Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) wrote:
>>This brings up another question: why are email addresses collected on the
>>blue sheets?
>
>after a BOF that I chair, I generally get the blue sheet from the 
>Secretariat and make sure the email addresses are on the relevant mailer.

Adding people from a BoF blue sheet to the activities mailing list is
fine as long as you announce you are going to do that and allow people
at the BoF to opt out, which is how I've seen it done.

Thanks,
Donald

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From: Matt Crawford <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:22:46 -0600

> see where they are and if they have gotten hung up. 

That's a fun solution to the more general problem of slow blue-sheet
propagation.  For the name harvesting attack, my favorite idea
(perhaps for no better reason than because its mine) is peel-off
numbered (or bar-coded) labels on the backs of the badges, to be
affixed to the blue sheet.  The secretariat, of course, would have
the number-to-name mapping.

---

From: Robert Elz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:41:56 +0700

Date:        Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:22:46 -0600
    From:        Matt Crawford <[email-masked]>
    Message-ID:  <[email-masked]>

  | For the name harvesting attack, my favorite idea
  | (perhaps for no better reason than because its mine) is peel-off
  | numbered (or bar-coded) labels on the backs of the badges, to be
  | affixed to the blue sheet.

I thought the "drop a bar coded thing in a box" was a better idea.

Aside from keeping people names one step away from those who don't
really need to know them, this also means that the blue sheet could
be dispensed with entirely - along with the requirement on WG chairs
to keep on chasing its current location in the room, and keep it
moving - and remember to regain it at the end of the meeting.

It would also mean that you would no longer have to either be in your
seat at the precise time the sheet flies past, nor go chasing it around
the room later (blue sheets can be a real distraction in some meetings).
I think fixing this is an even more worthwhile goal than worrying about
blue sheet copiers.

This could be done by having a sheet of A4 sized (even Letter sized...)
paper containing bar codes with the registration info (people can cut/tear
it for themselves)  That would easily hold 30 bar codes or thereabouts,
which should be enough.

Or, we could simply have people toss their business card (or something
similar with their name on it) in the box - except then that has to be
stored, or transcribed, something bar coded would handle much more easily
with the down side of needing to be prepared in advance (and that means
a separate sheet individually printed for every attendee, correlated proberly).

kre

---

From: Bruce Campbell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:23:40 +0100 (CET)

> I thought the "drop a bar coded thing in a box" was a better idea.

urm, dropping a 'where did I put that sheaf' card into a box either at
entry or exit from a meeting is possibly a bad thing due to simple queuing
issues.

The system used at the Cisco Networkers conferences is quite ok, where
they have people at the entrance to each session who swipe your bar-coded
name badge through a portable machine.

Unfortunately (and why I didn't seriously pursue the same idea for APNIC
meetings) you need (extra) people at the door (increasing costs for the
Secretariat or the sponsor), or you end up with the same queuing problem
as people try to scan their badge/drop a card/write their name themselves
on entry.

If you've got money to burn, sure, have a complex system.  Having your
name badge being a proximity swipe card would probably be the easiest way
for attendees, but would send registration costs up to pay for such.

The blue sheets work.  If you're nervous about supplying your email
details, I believe the IETF name badges already have your registration
number on them, which would work just as well as a cross-reference if that
WG wished to contact you.[1]

I just wish the Secretariat would supply the sheets to the sessions with
clipboards + attached pen to make it easier to fill out, *and* a sheet at
the door for the late-comers/early-exiters.

--==--
Bruce.

[1] IMHO, by attending the session, you are giving the WG-chair permission
    to contact you after the IETF to supply information about the WG
    mailing list.  It does not (unless specified) give the WG-chair
    permission to subscribe you to such a mailing list.

Speaking for myself.

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:38:47 -0500

>>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Campbell <[email-masked]> writes:
    Bruce> I just wish the Secretariat would supply the sheets to the
    Bruce> sessions with clipboards + attached pen to make it easier to fill
    Bruce> out, *and* a sheet at the door for the late-comers/early-exiters.

  That would be rather easy to arrange, along with the attached helium balloon.
  Low-tech is often better :-)

]       ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine.           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] [email-masked] http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [

---

From: "Tony Hain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:54:55 -0800

> the door for the late-comers/early-exiters.

and you were complaining about raising costs... do you realize how many
pens would be lost in the process of getting a blue-sheet through 100
ietf attendees???

---

From: David Terrell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 00:21:33 -0800

> pens would be lost in the process of getting a blue-sheet through 100

If some bright person has the idea of tying the pen to the clipboard
so as to head off this problem, please make sure you can write
anywhere on the page with the left or right hand with the length
of cord supplied....

... and you thought wire protocol standardization was hard...

-- 
David Terrell             | "When I take action I'm not going to
Prime Minister, Nebcorp   | fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty
[email-masked]              | tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's
http://wwn.nebcorp.com/   | going to be decisive." - George W. Bush