Subject: Blue Sheet Etiquette

From: borderlt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:29:30 -0500

If I had remembered, I would have asked this question at the plenary...

    I cannot remember in which meeting it happened.  (I think it was DCP, but
I am not sure.)  I saw a blue sheet go past in the row in front of me. 
Somewhere between fifteen to thirty minutes later, the chair asked where the
blue sheets were and someone down the row from me raised their hand.  When, I
looked, the person was in the process of copying the last few names off of the
blue sheet before forwarding it.

    Is there anything official that can be done to someone who is copying
names off of a blue sheet?  Perhaps, get their name and not allow them to
register for future meetings?  Try to embarrass them by publishing their
name?  I have already decided that if I ever see it happen again, I am going
to just snatch the blue sheet away from the person...

John

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From: Doug Royer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:48:11 -0700

borderlt wrote:
> ... 
>     Is there anything official that can be done to someone who is
> copying names off of a blue sheet?  Perhaps, get their name and
> not allow them to register for future meetings?  Try to embarrass
> them by publishing their name?  I have already decided that if
> I ever see it happen again, I am going to just snatch the blue
> sheet away from the person...

Easy - don't go to events where you don't want people to know.
The names are available. If you don't want your name on the
list of attendees - don't attend. I doubt they copied the
entire list. What horrible thing do you think they were
doing with your name or email address?  Is the fact they
knew your name offensive? Or do you think that spammers attend
the IETF meeting just to get email addresses? What's the issue?

-Doug

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From: "Perry E. Metzger" <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Dec 2001 21:53:53 -0500

borderlt <[email-masked]> writes:
> names off of a blue sheet?

Go up to them and start yelling, loudly, in the middle of the meeting
if need be. Then take the sheets from them and forward them on. The
blue sheets are not for this purpose. If everyone knows who the
offenders are they can be made to stop.

Perry

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From: Susan Harris <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:57:03 -0500 (EST)

> the IETF meeting just to get email addresses? What's the issue?

All of us have our name on the list of attendees - that's not the point.
In fact, if the person doing the copying simply wanted names, why didn't
he/she go to the registration list on the web? Probably because he's
interested in marketing to the special interests of the people at the WG,
and wanted to get their email addresses quickly and easily.  Very
offensive.

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From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:45:18 +0100 (CET)

> and wanted to get their email addresses quickly and easily.  Very

This brings up another question: why are email addresses collected on the
blue sheets?  Aren't names sufficient? The secretariat already has
everybody's email addres from the registration form.

Henk

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From: Ross Finlayson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:24:50 -0700

At 02:29 PM 12/13/01, borderlt wrote:
>When, I

This not the first time that this has happened.  It's a bit surprising,
though, that people are still using such low-tech methods to snarf names
off the blue sheets  (now that small, easily concealable digital cameras
are readily available :-)

         Ross.

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From: Gregory Neil Shapiro <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:34:46 -0800

Doug> Or do you think that spammers attend the IETF meeting just to get
Doug> email addresses?

I can guarantee that they do.  I use +detail addresses on the blue sheets
and I have on frequent occasions received spam to those addresses --
specifically, recruiters and pay-your-own-way conference invites.

---

From: Robert Moskowitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:11:51 -0500

At 04:29 PM 12/13/2001 -0500, borderlt wrote:

There is a practical side to this.  Note that John saw that the sheet was 
hung in the queue.  This can result in people not getting the sheet to 
sign, and then the next meeting not getting a big enough room......

---

From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:01:03 +0200 (EET)

> sign, and then the next meeting not getting a big enough room......

Has it been said what those blue sheets are used for anyway?

I don't think _anyone_ is typing any emails on the lists.

Rather, I'd guess the secretariat is only interested in seeing how many 
people attended, so gauge how to make room reservations at the next 
meetings etc.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

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From: Robert Moskowitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:19:19 -0500

>people attended, so gauge how to make room reservations at the next

exactly.  So if I have to leave the meeting 15 min early to catch someone 
before the next meeting, I might miss the list.  THis has happened on occation.

---

From: "Meritt James" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:52:55 -0500

And the earthshaking results have been (on those times)?

-- 
James W. Meritt CISSP, CISA
Booz | Allen | Hamilton
phone: (410) 684-6566

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From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:43:59 +0200 (EET)

> people attended, so gauge how to make room reservations at the next 

Well, now that I think about it, there _could_ be one additional rather
interesting use if the technology permitted.

That is, checking the correlation of people attending certain kind of
meetings -- this might help when trying to avoid allocating the same slot
for two equally interesting (to some significant group of people)  
meetings.

Current (iterative?) process manually works around this, to a better or 
worse extent.

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:55:03 -0700

At 08:45 PM 12/13/2001, Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) wrote:
>blue sheets?

after a BOF that I chair, I generally get the blue sheet from the 
Secretariat and make sure the email addresses are on the relevant mailer.

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:31:26 -0800

> Secretariat and make sure the email addresses are on the relevant mailer.

it has long been generally held that adding people to mailing lists without
their consent is quite impolite.

randy

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From: Rodney Thayer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:26:08 -0700

it was my recollection that this used to be the proscribed procedure,
although that was from a long time ago.  (only for the BOF)

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From: "James W. Meritt" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:13:09 -0500

Which stops them how?

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From: Fred Douglis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:42:39 -0500

[email-masked] said:
> meetings -- this might help when trying to avoid allocating the same
> slot for two equally interesting (to some significant group of people)
>   meetings. 

Haven't seen further comment on this suggestion, so I wanted to add my own 2c 
that this seems like a useful idea.

Obviously, the chairs are asked what meetings not to be opposite, but they may 
not know the quirks of their audience as well as a histogram from past 
attendees might show.  And yes, there'll always be some conflicts, but this 
can reduce them.

Conversely, knowing the correlations might be useful if the secretariat ever 
tried to proactively cluster related meetings closer together.  

Fred