Subject: RE: Blue Sheet Etiquette

From: "Ian King" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:06:34 -0800

WARNING!  WARNING!  Recurring mailthread alert!  

This conversation seems to recur during or just after every meeting....
-- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stracke [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:33 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Blue Sheet Etiquette

>The Mormon Tabernacle Choir in Salt Lake City had a pretty good system 
>for checking tickets: wireless bar code scanners. Can't be more 
>expensive than having somebody type in thousands of names, from barely 
>legible writing.

I did think of something like that; but then you'd have a queue at the 
door as people scan their badges.  Besides, there's a difference in
scale: 
we do this three times a year, instead of every day (week?).

On the plus side, though, the scanner would record the time, and thereby

know what meeting you were there for, so you'd eliminate the failure
mode 
where the chair forgets to put the new box in place, and meeting A gets 
the credit for everybody who went to meeting B.

It wouldn't have to be wireless, either; the scanner could be hooked to
an 
old PC which would store the data on disk.

/=======================================================\
|John Stracke                   |Principal Engineer     |
[email-masked]  |Incentive Systems, Inc.| 
|http://www.incentivesystems.com|My opinions are my own.| 
|=======================================================|
|Cogito ergo Spud. (I think, therefore I yam.)          |
\=======================================================/

---

From: "John Stracke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:56:50 -0500

>Rather, I'd guess the secretariat is only interested in seeing how many 
>people attended, so gauge how to make room reservations at the next 
>meetings etc.

If that's true, then the answer is simple: anyone who's worried about 
their name being harvested can put down a false one.

/===========================================================\
|John Stracke                   |Principal Engineer         |
[email-masked]  |Incentive Systems, Inc.    |
|http://www.incentivesystems.com|My opinions are my own.    |
|===========================================================|
|"It takes a special kind of guy to rig an election and then|
|lose." --Cecil Adams                                       |
\===========================================================/

---

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:22:34 -0700 (MST)

> From: "John Stracke" <[email-masked]>
> 

Or better, the addess of a trap so that so that others who receive the
spam (or their automated spam defenses) can recognize it for what it is.

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]

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From: "Ian King" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:56:24 -0800

Once upon a time, when I was a Working Group chair, I asked the
Secretariat for a copy of the blue sheet from my session; my goal was to
direct mail to persons who had been there, to discuss issues raised
there (in case they weren't subscribed to the list).  

Granted, one of them took umbrage with me, but it was otherwise rather
effective.  

So there's one reason for you - it's a service to the Working Group.  --
Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pekka Savola [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:01 AM
To: Robert Moskowitz
Cc: borderlt; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Blue Sheet Etiquette

On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> There is a practical side to this.  Note that John saw that the sheet 
> was
> hung in the queue.  This can result in people not getting the sheet to

> sign, and then the next meeting not getting a big enough room......

Has it been said what those blue sheets are used for anyway?

I don't think _anyone_ is typing any emails on the lists.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:56:59 -0700

At 09:15 AM 12/14/2001, John Stracke wrote:
>(I'm assuming here that the Secretariat currently types up the names from
>blue sheets, and that scanning the cards would be easier.  If not, then
>forget it; this isn't worth giving them extra work.)

no. The reason the blue sheets are maintained are in the event that someone 
later tries to assert that we are not open. In court, the blue sheets can 
be used as evidence of openness.

That said, the solution you proposed would also do this.

---

From: "John Stracke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:44:18 -0500

>I thought the "drop a bar coded thing in a box" was a better idea.

But, when I posted that idea, I misunderstood the goals of the blue sheet. 
 If the point is to store it and be able to bring it out in case of a 
court challenge, then the blue sheet is simpler--storing a sheet of paper 
is easier than either scanning a box of cards.  In addition, a sheet of 
paper with individuals' handwriting on it would probably be more 
persuasive in court than a box of cards that could've been stuffed at any 
time.

|"Fate just isn't what it used to be." --Hobbes         |

---

From: "John Stracke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:38:14 -0500

>Obviously, the chairs are asked what meetings not to be opposite, but 
they may 
>not know the quirks of their audience as well as a histogram from past 

I believe there's already a solution in place for this: the 
preregistration forms ask which WG meetings you plan to attend.

/==============================================================\
|John Stracke                   |Principal Engineer            |
[email-masked]  |Incentive Systems, Inc.       |
|http://www.incentivesystems.com|My opinions are my own.       |
|==============================================================|
|"Stop slouching towards Bethlehem!" -- The Mother of the Best |
\==============================================================/

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From: "Tom Petch" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:39:44 -0000

I believe there can be benign reasons for copying details
from a blue sheet.

I was struck by how few WG chairs and presenters introduced
themselves at IETF52 so the room was filled with a sea of
Als and Berts, Andys and Randys, Geoffs and Jeffs,  etc. and
etc.  Sitting at the back, I got a blue sheet with surnames
on it and could often marry the surnames to the (backs of
the) heads of those present.  And when I recognised the
surnames as those of ID and RFC authors, I did indeed copy
that information down.  But I do not recognise this as the
activity described in the first posting of this thread.

Tom Petch, Network Consultant