Subject: Re: namedroppers mismanagement, continued

From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:01:35 +0100 (CET)

> I don't care whether Bush's decisions can be adequately explained by
> stupidity. The decisions shouldn't be made by hand in the first place.
> The only acceptable ways to process a message to a standardization
> mailing list are
> 
>    (1) to immediately pass it through unchanged to the subscribers or
>    (2) to immediately bounce it.
> 
> The decision between #1 and #2 must be made by objective standards. The
> bounces must clearly and thoroughly explain the standards. The standards
> must allow the sender to straightforwardly arrange for #1.

I disagree that there is no room for human beings filtering out spam.
Your approach means that an IETF participant can't cross-post messages
to mailing lists to which s/he is not subscribed, which I think would make
inter-WG coordination much more difficult when we need to make it easier.

  Erik

---

From: Erik Nordmark <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:56:09 +0100 (CET)

> Bush imposed his mailing-list control methods without IESG approval, in
> violation of RFC 2418, section 3.2.

Dan,

The spam filtering applied to the namedroppers list is consistent
with the IESG policy on spam control at
http://www.ietf.org/IESG/Statements.html

> What's stopping him from selectively delaying or discarding messages
> that he doesn't like? How can we tell whether these were actually
> ``mistakes''?

Messages sent by subscribers to the list, or from addresses that have
been explicitly requested to be added to the exception list
of automatically approved non-subscriber posters, are sent to the list
without any manual review.

The manual review only applies to non-subscriber postings with the intent
of filtering out spam that isn't caught by the automatic spam filtering,
while allowing occasional messages, such as WG cross postings, to get through.
However, any frequent posters to the list should either post from
their subscription address or ask to be added to the exception list.

   Erik

---

From: Garrett Wollman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:38:33 -0500 (EST)

In article <mit.lcs.mail.ietf/[email-masked]> you write:
>Neither is
>
>         echo subscribe [email-masked]' | mail namedroppers-request <at>
>ops.ietf.org

Not a useful answer.  There is a reason why the address from which I
am sending this message is not the one to which I am subscribed.  (If
this reason is not obvious, look at the headers.)

-GAWollman

-- 
Garrett A. Wollman   | [G]enes make enzymes, and enzymes control the rates of
[email-masked]  | chemical processes.  Genes do not make ``novelty-
Opinions not those of| seeking'' or any other complex and overt behavior.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA|         - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)