Subject: Cluster Addressing and CIDR

From: "J. Noel Chiappa" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:48:56 -0500

I was reading a paper by Paul Francis and Ramakrishna Gummadi, and a
reference caused me to re-read an interesting-sounding old paper they
referenced (RFC-1380, "IESG Deliberations on Routing and Addressing") to
refresh my memory of it, and further to read similar documents it referenced
(e.g. RFC-1287, "Towards the Future Internet Architecture").

In so doing, I was upset to see that the references included no mention of
the work of Carl-Herbert Rokitansky, whose "cluster addressing" scheme was
the first case I can recall of someone proposing to group a number of IP
network numbers together, and treat them as a single entity - the idea which
later became the key concept behind CIDR.

Granted, the original cluster addressing scheme had a different goal entirely
(it had to do with getting routing to work correctly with multiple X.25
networks) - but still, it put the thought of that mechanism in the heads of
everyone who was around at the time.

So, if anyone writes about CIDR in the future, can they please include a
reference to the cluster addressing work? Thanks.

	Noel

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From: "Rokitansky, Carl-Herbert" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:21:56 +0100

Dear Noel,
Dear Bob,
Dear Greg,

As you might understand, I am quite happy to hear from you all, and of 
course memories pop up on the work of the IETF / PDN Group in which the 
"Cluster Addressing Scheme" was discussed intensively. In fact, the main 
idea was to extend the "Subnet Addressing Scheme" but in the "other 
direction", with the intention, that not only subnets, but even several 
different Internet networks appear to be reachable "locally" e.g. by direct 
X.25 links, so that similar routing decision algorithms can be be applied, 
using an appropriate "Cluster Addressing Mask", in which only those bits of 
the IP address corresponding to the same "cluster" are set to "1".

In fact, the "Cluster Addressing Scheme" was never published as RFC or IEN, 
but was published in:
[1] Carl-Herbert Rokitansky, "Internet Cluster Addressing Scheme and its 
Application to Public Data  Networks",  Proc.  9th International Conference 
on Computer Communication  (ICCC' 88), pp. 482-491, Tel Aviv, Israel, 
Oct./Nov. 1988.

[2] Carl-Herbert Rokitansky, "Hierarchical VAN-gateway 
Algorithms  and  PDN-Cluster  Addressing Scheme for Worldwide 
Interoperation between Local TCP/IP Networks via X.25 Networks", Informatik 
Fachberichte 205, Springer Verlag Berlin, pp. 758 - 774, Feb. 1989.

and as IETF/PDN Drafts:
- Carl-Herbert Rokitansky, "Internet Cluster Addressing Scheme", PDN Draft 
for Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), July 1989.

- Carl-Herbert Rokitansky, "Application of the Cluster Addressing Scheme to 
X.25 Public Data Networks and Worldwide Internet Reachability Information 
Exchange", PDN Draft for Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), July 1989.

It's "only" a bit more than 13 years ago, but it seems to be an eternity, 
taking into account, what happened since then !

Bob Braden wrote:
 >Roki,
 >It's never too late to repent! The RFC Editor would be glad to
 >publish your latest Internet-Draft, even at this late date. We
 >think it is important that seminal ideas be reflected in an
 >archival document series.
 >Regards,
 >Bob Braden

Of course, I would support, if the RFC Editor would be interested to 
publish the latest internet draft of the "Cluster Addressing Scheme", etc., 
in an archival document series, but I have to check, if I have an 
electronic (and readable) copy available myself, so I would appreciate if 
some appropriate people could also check if they have an easier access to 
such copies in an electronic archive !

So, please expect subsequent message(s) on this issue.
If you need any additional information, please let me know !

Thanks for bringing this issue up,
Best regards,

Carl-Herbert Rokitansky (Roki)
=======================

PS: As far as I can recall (having currently no access to any old 
documents) the IETF (or plans for it ?) was established in 1984 in a 
meeting in Malvern, UK at RSRE, in Sept (?) 1984 (could anyone please 
confirm), in which several of us participated ! Do you have any plans 
already to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the establishment of the IETF 
! Please keep me informed. Thanks ! Roki.
==================================================================

>reference to the cluster addressing work? Thanks.

======================================================

H.-Prof. Dr. Carl-Herbert Rokitansky

Universität Salzburg
Inst. f. Computerwissenschaften
(Computer Science Institute)
Jakob-Haringerstr. 2
A-5020 Salzburg, Austria

Tel.: +49-172-241 04 71 (GSM)
Fax: +49-172-50-241 04 71 or +43-662-8044-611 or +43-662-64 69 90 18
EMail: <[email-masked]> or <[email-masked]>
======================================================

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From: Michael StJohns <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:08:32 -0500

>! Please keep me informed. Thanks ! Roki.

Hi Roki -

Sorry - wrong date.  The IETF was established as the result of an IAB 
meeting held just immediately before the 1st IETF meeting - which 
incidentally was actually the last GADS (Gateway Architecture and Data 
Structures) meeting.  Mike Corrigan (my boss and the Technical Manager for 
the Defense Data Network) came in late in the day on the first day of the 
meeting and informed us the IAB had decided to split GADS into the INENG 
and the INARC (Internet Engineering and Internet Architecture) and that the 
GADS chair (Dave Mills) was now the chair of INARC.  Mike Corrigan took 
over as the first chair of the INENG which pretty immediately became the 
IETF (it was easier on the tongue).

We spent about 1/2 of the 2nd day on engineering issues and I would really 
call that specific day the first IETF meeting.  According to the IETF 
website, that was January 17th, 1986 - so we've got a few years yet until 
the 20th anniversary.

Later, Mike

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From: Craig Partridge <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:01:38 -0500

In message <[email-masked]>, Michael StJ

>website, that was January 17th, 1986 - so we've got a few years yet until 

Mike:

Do you remember how many of the 1986 meetings were closed?

I first attended the Moffett Field meeting (which was periodically
interrupted by U-2s taking off) in Feburary 1987.  My recollection is that
it was the 2nd meeting open to all attendees, but I'm not sure.

Craig

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From: Michael StJohns <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:50:04 -0500

>it was the 2nd meeting open to all attendees, but I'm not sure.

Craig - I don't think that any of the meetings were explicitly closed, but 
definitely not well advertised.  If I were to pick a date where the 
expansion started, I'd probably pick meeting 6 at BBN where we had a co 
meeting with one of the ... ANSI subgroups? X3S3? (I forget the 
incantation).  I think at meeting 3 we explicitly started looking at the 
operations of the Internet - we had all 4 of the major players there (DOD, 
NASA, DOE and NSF) and that broadened it past the purely research bent of 
GADS.

Later, Mike