Subject: Re: visa requirements (US citizens)

From: "Kevin C. Almeroth" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:46:12 -0800

>>The Korean embassy page that is linked to from the IETF meetings page 
>>(<http://www.koreaembassy.org/visiting/eng_visas.cfm>) makes it 
>>pretty darn clear that US folks should get a visa. They do have a 
>>link from that page saying how wonderful US-Korea relations are, of 
>>course.

What part are you reading that says this?

"# You may enter Korea without a visa for a stay up to 30 days 
or less for tourism, visiting, or transit to another country when 
carrying a valid US passport."

Seems to me to pretty clear that a visa is not needed.

-Kevin

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From: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:08:49 -0800

>Seems to me to pretty clear that a visa is not needed.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't think attending a professional meeting 
is either "tourism", "visiting", or "transit to another country". 
YMMV.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--Internet Mail Consortium

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From: David Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:28:17 -0800 (PST)

Furthermore, how often have you found that web content hasn't been kept
current ???

And exactly who will you appeal to if you arrive in Korea without a Visa
and you discover it is recovered.

If I were investing my funds in travel to Korea, I'd make sure that I had
the proper documents by dealing DIRECTLY with the authorized
representatives of the government in question.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Paul Hoffman / IMC wrote:

> _______________________________________________
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From: Ted Hardie <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:49:33 -0800

At 11:08 AM -0800 01/28/2004, Paul Hoffman / IMC wrote:
>I am not a lawyer, but I don't think attending a professional meeting is either "tourism", "visiting", or "transit to another country". YMMV.

Nor am I a lawyer.  I have heard several times, though, that "visiting" includes meetings of
this type, since attendees are not being paid by a Korean company for work and are
not expected to sell goods or services to Korean companies while there.  I took away
from that the idea that "if your economic interaction with Korea while there is
only that of 'consumer', you are visiting".

Again, I am not a lawyer, and I suggest only that there may be a different view.
				regards,
					Ted Hardie

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From: Ken Hornstein <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:51:19 -0500

>is either "tourism", "visiting", or "transit to another country". 

Man, where were you guys the first time this was discussed here? :-)

So, my initial reading of the embassy web page was in line with Paul's;
it certainly seemed to me that IETF attendees would need a visa.  When
I mentioned this to the list, a bunch of people chimed up and said, "What
are you talking about, I've been there a bazillion times for meetings
and never needed a visa".

Sam Hartman and I called our respective consulates (Boston and Washington, DC,
respectively).  Sam was told unambiguously that a visa was not required.
I spoke to a seemingly less knowledgeable person, who was not completely
sure, but seemed to indicate that since IETF was non-profit, a visa was not
required.  Someone else on this list (forgive me, I don't remember your
name), had contact with the Korean Ambassador to the US, and forwarded an
email from either him or a representative who indicated that a visa is
not required.

However, Steve Bellovin has an excellent point; these reprisals by
other countries in response to our new immigration policies are
documented, and while I haven't seen any specific examples of ones from
Korea, it's certainly a possibility.  I'd hate to be the one who gets
the "rubber glove" treatment from a immigration official who has a beef
with the US.

My feeling regarding the whole thing is:

- Without a visa, you're probably okay.
- With a visa, you're almost certainly okay.

On a side note ... has anyone else had problems getting to the web site
of the host?  http://www.tta.or.kr/ietf59/index.htm has failed every time
I've tried to connect to it in the past few weeks.

--Ken

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From: "Eric A. Hall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:54:12 -0600

> Seems to me to pretty clear that a visa is not needed.

These are the future possibilities:

 1) You got the visa, the guard on duty that day deems it unnecessary,
    and you curse the effort you spent to get it.

 2) You don't get the visa, the trainee on duty that day deems it is
    necessary, and you curse the ~30 hour round-trip flight, the
    money, and the effort you spent avoiding the visa fetch.

-- 
Eric A. Hall                                        http://www.ehsco.com/
Internet Core Protocols          http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/coreprot/

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From: Gene Gaines <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:20:24 -0500

Visas for travel to Seoul, Korea IETF meeting.

Perhaps I can settle this.

A U.S. citizen does NOT need a visa to visit Korea for a meeting
by a non-profit group such as the Internet Engineering Task Force.
I just confirmed this with the head of the visa section in the
Korean Consulate in Washington DC.

But don't take my word for it. If anyone requests, I will be glad
to get an official letter faxed from the Korean Consulate-General.
I would carry that letter with your current U.S. passport.

More precise statement:

  - U.S. citizens traveling to Korean to attend the IETF meeting
    do not need a visa, as they are traveling to attend a
    non-profit conference.  They can stay in Korea up to 30 days
    for such purposes and for tourism.

  - If you travel to Korea for business purposes, such as meeting
    customers or other business purposes, then a visa is required.

  - There also is confusion about government employees.  U.S.
    government employees going to Korea just for tourism or a non-
    profit conference such as IETF do not need a visa because they
    are going a private citizens.  However, government employees
    going to Korea for official purposes do need an official visa.

I won't request an official letter unless someone asks me to do
so. I could post on a neutral web site or email to you.

Gene Gaines
[email-masked]
Sterling, Virginia

--

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From: Ken Hornstein <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:36:41 -0500

>Korean Consulate in Washington DC.

Gene,

Could you please post the contact information for the head of the visa
section of the Korean Consulate?  My call to the to the same consolate
where I navigated the menus to the visa department resulted in me
talking to a person who was ... well, I suppose the kindest thing to
say was that he was less than completely confident in his answer.  It
makes me nervous when two different people talk to the same
organization and get two completely different answers.

--Ken