Subject: IETF60: time needed for check-in at San Diego?

From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:28:17 +0300 (EEST)

Hi,

Now that there's a lot of stuff on Friday sessions, and most have 
flights leaving some time during the afternoon, a critical question is 
probably how much time do you need at the San Diego airport for 
check-in, etc. -- either for a domestic flight (ultimate destination 
possibly being outside of the US) or for a direct international 
flight.

Any experiences?  Is 1.5 or 2 hours (for example) enough at SD?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:01:25 +0200

Is not only check-in time ...

My last very unfortunate experience was traveling back to Madrid from Las Vegas, in January.

The check-in was about 2 hours queue, and then it took to me almost 4 hours (standing up, an infinite zig-zag of people filling all the airport) to pass the security check.

Consequently me, and most of the people in the airport miss their flights, and the travel companies rejected to allocate a new flight. They said claim for the cost to the US government.

I was booked for the following day flight (only option available to catch my next meeting in time, flying directly to Brussels instead of via Madrid), extra hotel expenses pay by myself also. Again same answer, claim to the US government.

By the way, the most curious thing is that despite the international air security regulations regarding the baggage can't travel alone, the planes take-off with the baggage ... and of course, you only get it 2-3 days after arriving to destination. No compensation either. Claim to the US government. They can break all the rules, even the security rules, just because improper security handling.

One moth ago, flying back from Santa Monica it was only 3 hours total time, but you never know ...

What is clear is that the US government should consider this type of events and provide facilities. Otherwise, the IETF, IEEE and other organizations, should consider very seriously skipping event in US.

Clearly it seems that this is irrelevant (in general) to US people, they don't mind what they government do, good or bad, but negative for the rest of the world. So the rest of the world should also consider offering the same pain and wait time to the US nationals ? I'm not asking for it, but the question is an exercise for US nationals to understand our situation, and consider taking some actions.

Hopefully we don't have this +4 hours situation anymore.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pekka Savola" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: IETF60: time needed for check-in at San Diego?

> Any experiences?  Is 1.5 or 2 hours (for example) enough at SD?

**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:35:57 -0400

>>>>> "JORDI" == JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]> writes:
    JORDI> What is clear is that the US government should consider this
    JORDI> type of events and provide facilities. Otherwise, the IETF,
    JORDI> IEEE and other organizations, should consider very seriously
    JORDI> skipping event in US.

  What he said.

--
]     "Elmo went to the wrong fundraiser" - The Simpson         |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson,    Xelerance Corporation, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] [email-masked]      http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/mcr/ |device driver[
] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [

---

From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:48:01 +0200

>   What he said.

What is Canada like in this regard? Seems to me this would be a perfect 
compromise for the North American meetings: reasonable distance for the 
US attendees, reasonable treatment of foreign nationals for everyone 
else (AFAIK).

Personally, I can live without being fingerprinted like a common 
criminal, which will start for EU citizens entering the US this fall. 
(Which obviously means even longer lines at Immigration...)

---

From: Bill Sommerfeld <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:56:58 -0400

I was last in San Diego in late January of this year.  For my
(domestic US) return flight, I arrived at the terminal about an hour
and a half before my (domestic) flight home on a 9:50am Friday morning
flight.

I think there were about a dozen people ahead of me in line for
security in terminal 2 and I got through it a minute or two.

A snapshot of http://www.san.org/airport/flights/flight_info.asp this
friday might be useful -- it may give you a sense for how many other
flights will be departing from the same wing of the terminal at around
the same time as your flight (see the terminal maps -- there are two
main terminals; each terminal has two wings, and IIRC there's a
security checkpoint and corresponding queue per wing).

					- Bill

---

From: shogunx <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:41:53 -0400 (EDT)

> (Which obviously means even longer lines at Immigration...)

How about a city in the US which agrees to not engage in such
behavior, and has an international airport, and several private airports?

sleekfreak pirate broadcast
http://sleekfreak.ath.cx:81/

---

From: Tim Bray <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:02:20 -0700

On Jul 21, 2004, at 2:48 PM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

> What is Canada like in this regard? Seems to me this would be a 
> perfect compromise for the North American meetings: reasonable 
> distance for the US attendees, reasonable treatment of foreign 
> nationals for everyone else (AFAIK).

I noted to Harald off-line that I think Canada would be an attractive 
choice for IETF meetings.  The tourism/conference biz is important to 
us, we're quite a bit cheaper than the U.S., and the border officials 
quite a bit softer-edged.  (To be fair to the U.S., we're also on fewer 
terrorist hit-lists).  I would think for something with the IETF's 
prestige, we might even be able to arrange a friendly nod from the 
Canadian feds, particularly if they could get a little marketing 
mileage out of the deal.

-Tim (writing from Vancouver, Canada)
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:23:38 -0700

>Any experiences?  Is 1.5 or 2 hours (for example) enough at SD?

Any time *I* have been through either CLD or SAN, 90 minutes has been quite 
sufficient, and 60 minutes is usually enough for domestic travellers. If I 
were checking in at LAX for an international departure, however, there is 
no way I would arrive a minute less than two hours in advance.

Note that if you are a frequent flier on United or American and are not 
checking baggage, you can check in on-line up to 24 hours prior to actually 
boarding. You have to be a mileage club member and have access to a printer 
(found in the terminal room, or you can FAX it to yourself via the hotel if 
you have FAX software on your laptop) to print the boarding pass. With 
that, the only line is the TSA line.

The following are from United.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,50446,00.html
>We know that leaving on time is important to you.
>
>To facilitate an on-time departure, we recommend that you allow ample time 
>for check-in, especially if you are checking baggage.
>
>For travel within the United States, we recommend that you arrive at the 
>airport:
>  - 60 minutes before your flight if you are not checking any bags
>  - 90 minutes before your flight if you are checking baggage
>For international departures, we recommend that you arrive at the airport:
>     2 hours before your flight
>
>In a growing number of U.S. airports, the Transportation Security 
>Administration (TSA) requires that all customers check-in to receive a 
>boarding pass before entering the security check-point. The TSA website 
>has a list of airports which require customers to obtain their boarding pass.
>
>Please note that reservations are subject to cancellation if you are not 
>checked in and available for boarding at the gate:
>  - At least 20 minutes prior to departure between U.S. cities (except 
> Hawaii – 30 minutes), to/from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean.
>  - At least 30 minutes prior to departure for all other international cities.
>
>At 20 minutes before your flight, we'll begin awarding upgrades and start 
>accommodating customers who are waiting for seat assignments.
>
>At 10 minutes before your flight you should be onboard and ready for an 
>on-time departure.
>
>For additional information about your airport, including security line 
>waits, peak times and days of travel and other important information, see 
>Airport check-in information.
>
>When traveling around holidays or other peak travel times, we recommend 
>you allow additional time.
>
>There are certain circumstances that will contribute to delays (i.e. 
>weather, air traffic, mechanical problems); however, United is committed 
>to doing everything possible to ensure on-time departures on all flights.

https://www.ua2go.com/ci/Login.jsp?return_to=easy_checkin
>EasyCheck-in Online
>
>Save time and avoid check-in lines with EasyCheck-in Online. Check in and 
>print your boarding pass from home or the office, then proceed directly to 
>security at the airport.
>
>EasyCheck-in Online is available 1 to 24 hours prior to your departure on 
>United and United Express flights within the U.S., San Juan, Puerto Rico, 
>St. Thomas and the Virgin Islands.
>
>EasyCheck-in Online is as easy 1-2-3:
>   Select the itinerary you would like to check in
>   Select the passengers you would like to check-in
>   Review your flight information and Print
>
>Print your own boarding pass
>
>By printing your boarding pass through united.com, you can proceed 
>directly to security. If you have bags to check, you can use curb side 
>check-in and still avoid lines at the airport.
>
>In order to use EasyCheck-in Online, you must:
>Be a Mileage Plus Member
>Check in within 24 hours prior to your scheduled departure
>Use a computer that is connected to a working printer

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:19:32 -0400

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bray <[email-masked]> writes:
    Tim> even be able to arrange a friendly nod from the Canadian feds,

  The who?
  Fed:  "IETF? Internet stuff, yeah... isn't that a division of microsoft?
         no? right. Internet, not Internet Explorer. The thing that
	 Nortel invented." 

  Don't expect any help from the Canadian federal government. Too
clueless, sorry.  On the other hand, do not expect any hinderance
either.

- --

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:44:39 -0400

> behavior, and has an international airport, and several private airports?

The cities aren't given a choice in the matter - some bright bulb in the
federal bureaucracy decided that fingerprinting airline travelers made sense,
totally overlooking the fact that the terrorists aren't so stupid they can't
catch a flight to Montreal, Ottowa, or Vancouver and rent a car..... 

Or just *walk* across the border, for that matter...
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: shogunx <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:22:54 -0400 (EDT)

> catch a flight to Montreal, Ottowa, or Vancouver and rent a car.....

And if we bring suit against this obvious invasion of privacy, citing
detriment to our local tourism based economy, due to a lower rate of
international visitors, combined with a media campaign exposing the corruption
that brought all of this about in the first place?  Oh, wait, the former
is already taking place.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:39:57 -0400

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:22:54 EDT, shogunx said:

> And if we bring suit against this obvious invasion of privacy,

It's been tried.

http://freetotravel.org/

---

From: shogunx <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:56:53 -0400 (EDT)

> > And if we bring suit against this obvious invasion of privacy,

What if we throw in a large protest and some civil disobedience
simultaneously?