Subject: Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria

From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 05:08:09 +0200 (EET)

(just a late addition of a comment or two..)

Others have already commented on a number of things -- if this goes forward,
the doc needs major editing.  Below are my comments on those parts which I
think haven't been all that extensively discussed.

..............

    Regarding the sponsorship, the meetings are not directly rewarding as
    a marketing action as it may be the case for other type of events, at
    least not directly, because the IETF community is mainly compound by
    engineers, not customers, but in any case is a rewarding action in
    front of the community.  This "low level" rewarding is also one more
    reason to make sure that not all the sponsorship details are openly
    disseminated, unless clearly authorized by the hosts, and even do, it
    can be contra-productive for future meetings.

==> I'm not sure what this means, so remove or reword.

    The rooms generally are hold in a 24 hours basis, and is highly
    recommended the possibility to use them at any time w/o restrictions,
    except for the required timing of the cleaning service.  In certain
    places this could be a cost issue and it may be not convenient.

    This may be the case when using conference facilities instead of
    meeting rooms in hotels.  In those cases, it may be necessary to
    increase the security when there are too many entrances.  Some
    additional technical issues may also arise according to previous
    experience, such as access to wiring closets, AV facilities, etc.

    Not having the rooms hold in a 24 hours basis could also be a problem
    in case electrical or network cabling/equipment has been deployed in
    the meeting rooms.

==> sometimes there seem to be requirements/guidance for NOC operations
(e.g. the last para) rather than site selection.  I'd rather put the 24h
requirement in different words: while the rooms don't need to be available
24h, removing and reinstalling the equipment, cabling etc shouldn't be
needed every evening and morning..

8.  Venue Acceptance/Rejection Report

    Despite the information provided by the proponent of a given venue,
    the IAD should, before taking a final decision about the acceptance
    or rejection of a given proposed venue, make an on-site survey.

    The on-site survey report will compare the selection criteria against
    the proposal information and the actual on-site findings, describing
    possible discrepancies or issues which may need further
    considerations even if they aren't directly described as part of the
    criteria set out-coming from this document.

==> so, IAD should survey all the proposed venues?  Funded by whom?  Could I
ask IAD to visit my backyard to check it out (I could offer a free
dinner too!)?  It may or may not make sense to say that if there are
multiple strong candidates (based on information received), a survey of
appropriate selection of them could be useful.

    In order to demonstrate the compliance with the IETF meeting venue
    selection criteria, all the information related to the proposal of a
    site will be made publicly available in the IETF web site,
    considering the negotiation confidential issues which could be
    subjected to the sponsor/hosts decision.

    A summary of the information need to be made public regardless of the
    site being finally selected or not, and should include all the
    options, such as a given city and several venues in the same city,
    and so on.

    This will not only help the openness of the process but also as
    collective knowledge helping into a better organization and solution
    of issues for future meetings.

==> I'm not sure this level of detail is useful, and indeed, I don't think
any sponsored venue proposal would like to have this kind of info public
if the venue didn't get selected.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

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---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:16:27 -0800

Hi Pekka, all,

(commenting/replying to the remaining emails on this today)

See my reply below in-line.

Regards,
Jordi

> De: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
> Responder a: <[email-masked]>
> Fecha: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 05:08:09 +0200 (EET)
> Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
> CC: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Asunto: Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria
> 

Let me try with:

Regarding the sponsorship, the meeting are not directly rewarding as a
marketing action as it is usually the case for other events. The reason for
this is that the IETF community is mainly engineers, which in general are
not decision makers which may become customers. However, sponsoring IETF
offers an important rewarding action from the perspective of the community
contribution. As a consequence, this "lower level" rewarding is one more
reason to make sure that not all the sponsorship details are openly
disseminated, unless clearly authorized by the host, and even do, it can be
contra-productive for future meetings.

> needed every evening and morning..

Ok. So let's make it:

Generally the rooms do not need to be available in 24 hours basis, but
removing and reinstalling cabling, access points, other equipment, etc.,
should not be required by the venue.

> appropriate selection of them could be useful.

I see your point, I think the idea is to visit the "strong candidates".
Remember that the visit is not only for "next IETF", but is useful to define
venues for future meetings, so I think this should be part of the IAD
attributions to decide if visiting one or more, and if all are visited at
the same time or considered for the same meeting or future meetings.

Let's make it:

Despite the information provided by the proponent of a given venue, the IAD
should, before taking a final decision about the acceptance or rejection of
a given proposed venue, make an on-site survey for those that seem to pass
the criteria defined in this document.

> if the venue didn't get selected.

I think the point here is to make it possible to publish the information in
an anonymous way. I think it was said already in one of my previous emails,
but will review it.

I mean, all this information is quite useful for the community and for
future candidates to hosting IETF, but we don't need to say the location,
neither the proponent, neither other details that disclose what is not
really relevant.

So we can write down something such as:

A summary of the information need to be made public regardless of the site
being finally selected or not. If agreed by the proponent, it could be very
complete, including all the options being considered, such as a given city
and several venues in the same city, and so on. Alternatively, it can be
made available not citing the city, but instead making clear the reasons why
it has not been selected, in order to help future proponents to foresee
similar issues.

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