Subject: Re: Normative figures

From: Bob Braden <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:30:32 -0800 (PST)

*> The draft has expired so I need to point to an external version. This draft
  *> which is looking at the properties of a routing network under conditions of
  *> failure would have been much clearer if it could have used mathematical
  *> notation rather than ASCIIised equations
  *> 
  *> http://www.faqs.org/ftp/pub/internet-drafts/draft-atlas-ip-local-protect-uturn-02.txt
  *> 
  *> Of course the diagrams could have also been clearer, as is seen by
  *> comparing them to the ones that Alia used in her presentatons on the
  *> subject.
  *> 
  *> - Stewart
  *> 

Stewart,

I just looked over this document, and it actually seems to me to
support the "ASCII art and equations are [just] enough to serve the
explanatory purpose" school of thought.

I really do not see that it would be "much clearer if it could have
used mathemtical notation".  As experienced programmers, we are
used to reading linearized formulas, aren't we?  And these particular
formulas seem quite simple.

Note that if and when this document is published as an RFC, the RFC
Editor will supply some additional blank lines and clean up the
indentation, which will make the equations much easier to read.  Also,
as you note, the ASCII art diagrams could really use a cleanup.  They
are unnecessarily ugly, kind of dyslexic.

It is true that the discipline of ASCII art forces the author to give
some thought to the clarity and modularity of the text.  Opinions
differ on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

Bob Braden

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From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:19:30 +0000

>explanatory purpose" school of thought.
However the versions of this work that are published without the 72
char ASCII constraint are MUCH easier to read and understand. You
need to consider how much attention it reasonable to direct towards
understanding the notation and how much towards understanding the
technology. You may gather that I think that all the concentration
should be directed at the technology.

Also if this is JUST, then we are clearly working on the limit,
i.e. what we do to "make the Internet work better" risks being
limited by our ability to describe to each other the problems
and solutions. Indeed we cannot be sure that we are not
already in that limiting state.

>formulas seem quite simple.
If linearised formulas were a good idea mathematicians would use them :)
Translation to ASCII representation should surely be the final step in
implementation not something imposed during the understanding and
description phase.

>are unnecessarily ugly, kind of dyslexic.
The non-ASCII versions presented at the RTGWG looked fine.

>differ on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
Indeed, or whether as to whether it enhances of detracts from out ability
to do the right thing for the Internet.

- Stewart