Subject: Meeting Survey Results

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:45:07 -0500 (EST)

All;

More than 300 responded to the Meeting Survey conducted following IETF 64
in Vancouver.

See survey results link below.

Among the results are:
1.  Slightly more than 25% say their laptop is compatible with 802.11a.
[Note the IETF 65 NOC for Dallas recommends 802.11a]

2.  Nearly 60% (with an additional 23% undecided) prefer dinner following
all sessions of the day.

3.  Only 23% prefer a full day schedule for Fridays.

4.  Cookies are not the only craving for breaks -- 74% want more healthy
choices.

5.  Only 1/3 of the respondents expressed satisfaction with the wireless
connectivity.

And given the opportunity to say what they liked and didn't - 130 told us
how they felt.

Read it for yourselves: http://www.surveymonkey.com/Report.asp?U=165657447306

I and NeuStar Secretariat Services will review these results and make
adjustments as possible for IETF 65 Dallas, March 19 - 24.  And we look
forward to seeing you there.

Thanks for your participation.

Ray Pelletier
IETF Administrative Director.

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:57:09 -0400

Hi Ray,

> [Note the IETF 65 NOC for Dallas recommends 802.11a]

According to the survey, only 25.5% of the participants have 802.11a, which
in my opinion means that 11b/g MUST be reliable for 75% of the participants
in the next meeting.

Remember that if we don't have an 802.11a interface in our laptops is
because *THEY DONT'T HAVE IT*.

In my own case, having a Mac is not easy to get built-in 802.11a. I can of
course buy an external card, but is not reasonable (more power consumption,
more things to carry, etc.). There is one more reason, is that in most of
the world is not (today) widely used, so buying it almost only for IETF
meetings, don't make too much sense.

Even do, if it is just me, I will consider buying it, but I don't really
agree to get this asked for 75% of the participants. It is not a choice !

So the clarification is ... what we actually will get at IETF65, and if
something must be changed now for getting good 802.11b/g support, please,
make sure about that now !

Regards,
Jordi

> De: <[email-masked]>
> Responder a: <[email-masked]>
> Fecha: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:45:07 -0500 (EST)
> Para: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Asunto: Meeting Survey Results
> 
> All;
> 

**********************************************
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Slides available at:
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.

---

From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:08:58 -0800 (PST)

> meetings, don't make too much sense.

By that standard configuring your laptop to support ipv6 doesn't make 
much sense either...

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli  	       Unix Consulting 	       [email-masked]
GPG Key Fingerprint:     5C6E 0104 BAF0 40B0 5BD3 C38B F000 35AB B67F 56B2

---

From: Ken Raeburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:32:13 -0500

On Jan 23, 2006, at 21:57, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> course buy an external card,

Are there cards with Mac OS X drivers nowadays?  If I knew where to  
get one, I'd consider it, given the condition of the 802.11b/g  
network too much of the time.  (Or are you running Linux kernels on  
your hardware?)

Ken

---

From: "Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Espoo)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 06:35:13 +0200

Hi Jordi,

the preference for .11a was stated because we want to make sure that
everybody who has the possibility for it would use it. It makes the
network much more reliable. Of course b and g are provided as well.

It is a recommendation not a MUST, like the mail says.

Cheers,

Jonne.

---

From: Chris Elliott <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:11:26 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Ken Raeburn wrote:

> Are there cards with Mac OS X drivers nowadays?  If I knew where to get one, 
> I'd consider it, given the condition of the 802.11b/g network too much of the 
> time.  (Or are you running Linux kernels on your hardware?)

Yes, several.

Specifically, I gave 17 of the old Cisco .11a-only cards away in 
Vancouver, mostly to Mac folks.

Chris.

> Ken

Chris Elliott  CCIE# 2013       |         |
Customer Diagnostic Engineer   |||       |||
RTP, NC, USA                  |||||     |||||
919-392-2146              .:|||||||||:|||||||||:.
[email-masked]        c i s c o S y s t e m s

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:43:29 -0600

Ken Raeburn wrote:

> Are there [802.11a] cards with Mac OS X drivers nowadays?

This device has a lot of geek appeal; in addition to A/G/B support, it 
acts as a stand-alone handheld 802.11 network detection device:

http://www.zyxel.com/product/model.php?indexcate=1131440677

The spec sheet doesn't make it obvious, but they do have an OS X driver 
available:

ftp://ftp.us.zyxel.com/AG-225H/MacOSDriver/AG-225H_MacOSdriver_v1.10.zip

/a

---

From: Ned Freed <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:45:51 -0800 (PST)

> > In my own case, having a Mac is not easy to get built-in 802.11a. I
> > can of course buy an external card,

> Are there cards with Mac OS X drivers nowadays?

Yes there are. Here's the one I use:

   http://www.orangeware.com/endusers/wirelessformac.html

There's a fairly long list of supported cards, some of which support 802.11a.
I'm currently using a 3COM 3CRWE154A72 card, FWIW.

				Ned

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:44:15 -0400

Hi Jonne,

I'm not sure if I got it. My MUST was on the other way around: We really
need to warrantee good coverage for b/g to 75% of the participants.

Regards,
Jordi

> De: "Soininen Jonne (Nokia-NET/Espoo)" <[email-masked]>
> Organización: NET/ST/IED
> Responder a: <[email-masked]>
> Fecha: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 06:35:13 +0200
> Para: <[email-masked]>
> CC: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Asunto: Re: Meeting Survey Results
> 
> Hi Jordi,
> 
>>> Read it for yourselves:
>>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/Report.asp?U=165657447306
>>> 
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
>> individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
>> that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, including attached files, is prohibited.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>

---

From: Bill Sommerfeld <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:44:52 -0500

> 5.  Only 1/3 of the respondents expressed satisfaction with the wireless

Is there any correlation in the survey results between "satisfied with
wireless" and "has 802.11a"?

					- Bill

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:19:23 -0500 (EST)

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Sommerfeld" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:44 pm
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Meeting Survey Results

Nearly 55% of those who said they had 802.11a said wireless was adequate
or better.
Ray

					- Bill

---

From: David Kessens <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:38:51 -0800

Jordi,

> need to warrantee good coverage for b/g to 75% of the participants.

We hope to offer good connectivity to the other 25% of the participants as well.

You can help us by bringing a configured 802.11a card.

David Kessens
---

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:40:13 -0400

Hi David,

Don't want to start a new useless thread here, my point was basically to
show that b/g has a wider adoption and 75% of the laptops don't have
built-in a, so it makes sense to make additional effort to get it working.

I also learn from a previous email the reasons why b/g are not so good in
our meeting, and may be thru our liaison with IEEE we need to make some
noise over there, so the market use a better technology.

I also got some folks confirming that a cards where available also in
previous meetings, but probably that was not properly advertised, may be ?

Regards,
Jordi

> De: David Kessens <[email-masked]>
> Fecha: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:38:51 -0800
> Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:53:52 +0000

> I'm currently using a 3COM 3CRWE154A72 card, FWIW.

Away from the technobabble...

A key finding is that only 7% have to pay their own way to the IETF,
some of whom may have their own companies.

And only 7% say that the $50US fee hike might stop them attending again.

With so many people unhappy with wireless, these stats add up to charging
more for better wireless....

The weird stat was 7% for whom $50US extra means they have to file
paperwork to get the money (just eat less? :)

-- 
Tim/::1

---

From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:58:40 -0500

>You can help us by bringing a configured 802.11a card.

How much of the benefit of 801.11a is because so few people are using 
it?  Would it hold up if everyone switched to it?

Yes, there are more frequencies and less congestion.  Is that enough?

		--Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb

---

From: Francis Dupont <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:27:37 +0100

> There's a fairly long list of supported cards, some of which support 

=> as I've currently a 12" PowerBook I'd like to find a "wordwide usable"
.11a USB dongle because:
 - the only time I used an .11a card it was great!
 - if enough persons are switching to .11a perhaps the .11b/g is
   becoming again usable.
   
[email-masked]

PS: I need a local (Dallas) place to buy it too.
PPS: it seems the ZyXEL AG-225H is supported (there is a driver on
us.zyel.com for MacOS). Of course, it is not possible to get one in France.

---

From: David Kessens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:55:34 -0800

Francis,

> PS: I need a local (Dallas) place to buy it too.

www.frys.com
Fry's Electronics
12710 Executive Drive
Dallas, TX
(214) 342-5900

about 14 miles from the hotel. 

We will see whether we can post this information to the webpage and we
will check if there are more nearby stores.

Of course, Fry's tends to be well worth the drive even if there are
stores that are more nearby.

David Kessens
---

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:15:30 -0500

> Yes, there are more frequencies and less congestion.  Is that enough?

I imagine we are about to find out.

Regards
Marshall