Subject: RE: IETF65 hotel location

From: "Ed Juskevicius" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:59:12 -0500

Dave Crocker write:
> the questionnaire will not serve to understand the needs
> of people who are *unable to attend*

Perhaps we should ask a more open-ended question (i.e. "B" below):

A) Did you attend IETF-65?
B) If not, why not?

Regards,

Ed 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Dave Crocker
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:26 PM
To: Marshall Eubanks
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: IETF65 hotel location

> However, to be constructive, I would like to suggest adding two yes or
> no questions to the next meeting questionnaire :
> 
> A.) Do you feel that the venue chosen for the meeting was too remote, 
> in
> terms of accessibility of restaurants, bars, your or other hotels,
etc. ? >
> B.) (If "A" is answered yes.) Would having another IETF meeting in a
site
> that is similarly remote make it less likely that you would attend ? >

Asking questions like this could be quite useful.

The challenge is in making sure that the right people get asked.

If the questions are asked of people who already attended the meeting,
then the 
sampling is of people with the resources to accommodate the current
style of 
meeting arrangement.

While some might grouse about one characteristic or another of the
current 
choices, the questionnaire will not serve to understand the needs of
people who 
are *unable to attend* IETF meetings because of current costs, due to 
remoteness, hotel fees, or the like.

(By the way, the "what will make it less likely you will attend" type of

question is often interesting to ask, but is usually not a good
predictor of 
actual behavior.)

d/
-- 

Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
<http://bbiw.net>

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---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:59:20 -0500

Dear Ed;

This might also be a useful question to ask; it might be better to  
make it multiple choice along the lines of
(B. If not, because of
- general expense
- registration fees
- difficulty in arranging visa's or other travel preparations
- interference from other meetings or work schedule
- location of the meeting city
- location of the meeting venue )

However, that wasn't quite what I was suggesting. I have heard this  
issue of nearby access to
"stuff" come up before, and I know some people consider it quite  
important, so much
so that certain locations might be ruled out just for only having  
venues that are too isolated in their urban context.

So, in the context of a location that may be considered isolated, I  
think it might be
useful to consider this an experiment, and judge the reaction of the  
community after
the meeting towards this variable. Note that this would require  
polling those who attended, rather than those
who did not.

Regards
Marshall

---

From: John Levine <[email-masked]>
Date: 30 Jan 2006 17:25:30 -0000

>think it might be useful to consider this an experiment, and judge
>the reaction of the community after the meeting towards this
>variable.

A reasonable question, but it probably needs to be picked out a little
more than that.  For us self-employed weenies, the price of the trip
is an issue, and part of the problem of isolated hotels is that they
tend to have restaurants where the burger costs $23.95 and takes an
hour to arrive.  In this case, there are cheaper hotels nearby, but
unless you want to eat at Denny's, the culinary and options are thin.

R's,
John

---

From: Daniel Senie <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:53:25 -0500

>unless you want to eat at Denny's, the culinary and options are thin.

I'll echo John's sentiments, also being self-employed. My IETF 
participation is spotty at best of late based on the expense.

Also being vegan, some locales can be especially difficult. (Memphis 
was sure a challenge). I still have a hard time thinking of a better 
place than Minneapolis in wintertime. The hotel costs weren't bad, 
and who knew Minneapolis was one of the most vegan and vegetarian 
friendly places in the US?