Subject: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> (The Tao of IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force) to Informational RFC]

From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:13:10 +0700

Looks like this didn't get through the first time.

> From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> (The Tao of
> IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force) to
> Informational RFC
> Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:03:14 +0700
> 
> On Thu, 2012-06-07 at 16:09 -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> > > 	• The Tao mentions that we meet once a year in each region.  I don't think that's true for Asia at this point.  The text might call out that we meet where there are participants, or words that the IAOC might provide.
> > 
> > It doesn't say that. It says "approximately once a year in each region". That is still true.
> 
> A quick check of the "Upcoming IETF Meetings" calendar
> (http://www.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.html) shows that the next meeting
> in Asia is scheduled for November 2015, while the last was November
> 2011.  How does a 4 year gap map to "approximately once a year"?
> 
> ...
>

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 17:33:02 -0700

> (http://www.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.html) shows that the next
> meeting in Asia is scheduled for November 2015, while the last was
> November 2011.  How does a 4 year gap map to "approximately once a
> year"?

this winter we are meeting in georgia (not the one in the caucasus) and
florida.  what more diversity do you want?  canada?

randy

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 18:09:58 -0700 (PDT)

The intended rotation cycle is still 1-1-1 for NA-EU-AP regions, but 
it's all dependent on finding suitable and available venues and 
willing hosts and sponsors. Changing the text of the document would
imply a change in "policy" or "normal state of things" which there
hasn't been.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: [email-masked]  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj
Skype: organdemo

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012, Glen Zorn wrote:

---

From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:05:10 +0700

> imply a change in "policy" or "normal state of things" which there

Hmm.  So a dream world is the normal state of things...I guess really
should read this thing, if only to discover what other fantasies have
been made "real" through the magic of rough consensus.  However, since
this is a guide for the novice, I might remind folks that there is
chance that, lacking real experience, the novices in question might
actually believe what's in it  -- a dangerous prospect it seems.

---

From: Yoav Nir <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:31:06 +0300

To be fair, nearly half the attendees come from that continent. Even when the meetings are held in Taipei or Paris. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Randy Bush
Sent: 10 June 2012 03:33
To: Glen Zorn
Cc: IETF Disgust
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> (The Tao of IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force) to Informational RFC]

> November 2011.  How does a 4 year gap map to "approximately once a 

this winter we are meeting in georgia (not the one in the caucasus) and florida.  what more diversity do you want?  canada?

randy

---

From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 10 Jun 2012 15:47:23 -0000

>been made "real" through the magic of rough consensus. 

Gee, while we're at it, perhaps we should remind novices that the
best way to make progress is to send snarky comments rather than
revised text.

Old:

   Currently, the IETF meets in North America, Europe, and Asia,
   approximately once a year in each region.

New:

   Currently, the IETF meets in North America, Europe, and Asia.  The
   intention is to meet once a year in each region, although due to scheduling
   issues there are often more meetings in North America and fewer in Asia.

R's,
John

---

From: Ole Jacobsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:56:27 -0700 (PDT)

>    issues there are often more meetings in North America and fewer in Asia.

Friendly amendment:

Currently, the IETF meets in North America, Europe, and Asia. The 
intention is to meet once a year in each region, although due to 
scheduling issues there are often more meetings in North America and 
fewer in Asia and Europe.

<eofa>
----

There are many reasons for the current situation, but this is probably 
not the forum/context to discuss this. Let me just draw everyones 
attention to the message sent out today by the IETF Chair regarding
hosting of the upcoming Berlin meeting.

Ole J. Jacobsen

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:04:42 -0700

>    scheduling issues there are often more meetings in North America
>    and fewer in Asia.

s/intention/intent/