Subject: Re: [EAI] #1388: framework -3 - missing MIME considerations

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:38:44 -0500

--On Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 22:35 +0000 Charles Lindsey
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> I think that  message/rfc822 can be used for UTF8SMTP
>> messages when it is inside on UTF8SMTP environment, but
>> message/rfc822 can not be used for encapsulation.
> 
> Yes, that is exactly my view, so that makes two of us.

While this would probably meet the criterion of "knowing the
encoding for something before it is encountered" (see next
note), it makes me a little anxious.  I've raised the question
off-list with a few MIME experts (including those who specified
that content type); either Harald or I will report back when
we've heard from them.

FWIW, a recent IM note from one of them prominently featured the
technical term "Ick" in his description of the situation :-(.

> For encapsulation, we need something else, and it is likely to
> be somewhatugly. But let us see your draft.
> 
> My view is that we don't need encapsulation (i.e. we haven't
> found apressing need for it yet). Therefore, we should leave
> that issue aloneuntil a pressing need rears its igly head. I
> think that was John's viewtoo.

To be a little more precise, I am quite convinced that there is
a case for which we need encapsulation.  But I don't see it on
the WG Charter, so I hope we can convince ourselves it is
possible and then avoid getting tangled up in it.

The extreme version of that case involves a user who is
UTF8SMTP-capable receiving a message at her UTF8SMTP address
that contains UTF-8 headers, etc.  She then decides to forward
the message, as an attachment (additional body part) to an
ASCII-only user with a first body part containing a textual
introduction in ASCII text.  The only way to construct that
attachment requires some sort of encapsulation of the incoming,
UTF8SMTP, message.    Note that there is no on-the-wire or
automated downgrade environment here; _everything_ that needs to
be done must be done in the user's MUA environment.    Also note
that there are a number of variations on this scenario, but most
of them require the same type of encapsulation.

  john

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